US Border Patrol gives Minutemen locations to Mexican Gov't. !!
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Monday, May 15, 2006 13:40
VIEWED: 14225
PAGE 7 of 9
So... bad people have done bad things along the border.
But no Minutemen yet.
All right. Well, let's be specific in our condemnations.
As for the minutemen having racist psycho asshats in their ranks...
Well, I've worked with people like that my whole life, on any particular job. Asshats seem to grow on trees. I'm not prepared to condemn the Minutemen yet.
But of course, they are one arrest away from that line.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
So... You've still got no information on Minutemen being arrested for any border crimes, eh? Nuts.
Well not at 3 O’clock in the morning when I've got work at 6, no, but how's this:
Quote:
Border Vigilante Arrested for Illegally Detaining Immigrant
The ACLU said it has learned through discussions with the Border Patrol that a Minuteman volunteer from Colorado was arrested after he was found with two migrants in his car.
http://www.aclu.org/immigrants/gen/21241prs20051024.html
Maybe he was just observing them, from his rear-view mirror...
I found loads of reports, but many of them were just minutemen violently attacking protestors and the like, so I thought I'd keep it to Immigrants.
Quote:
Any of them Minutemen?
Apart from one of the co-founders of the group you mean?
But if you still won't take my word for it, lets ask the man Gilchrist himself:
Quote:
Gilchrist at a minuteman rally:
"I'm damned proud to be a vigilante."
Quote:
Citizen... I watch for criminals everywhere I go. I've even reported criminal activity to the police.
I had NO IDEA until you explained it to me that I was doing the job of law enforcement.
Does that make me a Vigilante?
You walk around your home town gun on your hip purposefully looking for crimes and intervening on occasion? Then yes, you'd be a vigilante.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.
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Quote:
Vigilantism is people taking the law in to their own hands, since that's pretty much what they're doing, because your law enforcement agencies are incapable of doing it themselves I think the word fits quite well. Most people in most democratic nations demand the government improves they're law enforcement agencies, your mates grab their guns and head for the border.
They're not in any way 'taking the law into their own hands', you moron. They're not 'arresting' anyone, they're not rounding folks up. All they're doing is informing Border Patrol where the illegals are. My mates grab their guns because its their constitutional right TO grab our guns,and the border is where the illegals , for the most part, are coming from. Seems pretty straight forward to me, somehow you have a problem w/ basic logic.
Quote:Again, ignorance raises it's ugly head..oh, wait..that's just citizen again. Now you're calling the Minutemen a POSSE ? Too gorram funny. Not all of them carry guns, but merely having one does more to KEEP trouble from happening than to cause it. It's called 'defense' , and that's what has been lacking along the border for many, many years.
Well golly gee there big 'A', would that be them folks that have decided to take that there law into there own hands by raisin' a posse?
Gee, what's this? On their own website they say strictly no contact with immigrants.
They can't be following their own rules huh.
Someone's going to get killed and the only people to blame will be them, running around with guns getting in the way of violent and desperate criminals and the proper authorities.
To help confuse the issue, there's not just 1 Minutemen group. There's at least 3 different ones. Don't know which sites you've been grabbing your quotes from, nor does it seem to matter, as you ignore any facts equally. If I were to say the sun was up, you'd say it was down, simply to be contrarian. I get that now. Wasted far too much time on your irrelevent post.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Oh AU, bringing nothing to the discussion except personal insults and bullshit as usual. It's no surprise to me you support the Minutemen group wholeheartedly; you've probably heard they had links to racist hate groups 
.
Now I'd bother refuting the baseless claims you've just made, but I don't need to, the one's you made aimed at me I've already proven to be false countless times (where conversely you've merely proven them true about you, funny that 
) and the ones regarding Minutemen I've refuted several times on this thread. I realise you have problems with reading so get back to me when your care worker has finished reading it too you, okay .
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Not all of them carry guns, but merely having one does more to KEEP trouble from happening than to cause it. .
I seriously doubt, that having a gun helps avoiding trouble. I think having a gun, more often causes trouble, whatever the intention was...
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
My mates grab their guns because its their constitutional right TO grab our guns,and the border is where the illegals , for the most part, are coming from.
M.Moore: "I left the Heston estate atop Beverly Hills and walked back into the real world. To an America living and breathing in fear. Where gun sales are now at an all record high. And where, in the end, it all comes back to 'Bowling for Columbine'".
A.
Michael Moore: Now wait a minute... The Constitution says you've got the right to bear arms. What do you think 'arms' means?
John Nichols: Well it's not like these...
[waves his arms]
John Nichols: It means we ought to have handguns if we want to.
Michael Moore: What about nuclear weapons? Should you be able to have weapons-grade plutonium?
John Nichols: [pauses] ... Well I think that oughta be restricted.
_____________________________________________
John Nichols: There's a lot of wackos out there.
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Now *this* is a posse...and they happen to be tied to law enforcement as well...
Just out of curisoity, where does the debate fall with this? Or am I out of line and introducing things irrelevant to the discussion? (see the False Dilema point above).
Amiton.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,195083,00.html
Arizona Sheriff Uses Anti-Smuggling Law to Target Illegal Immigrants
Thursday, May 11, 2006
GILA BEND, Ariz. — One Arizona county sheriff has created a 250-strong posse to hunt down those who cross the border illegally.
“It’s a felony; I am enforcing a new law,” Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio told FOX News. “I’m the elected sheriff and I’m going to do what I feel is right regardless of the controversy.”
Arpaio, the sheriff for Arizona's most populous county, is taking advantage of a new state law that allows charging undocumented immigrants with conspiracy to smuggle themselves into the United States. The anti-human-smuggling statute that took effect in Arizona in August and gave prosecutors a tool to go after "coyotes," or smugglers, who traffic in undocumented immigrants.
The Maricopa County Attorney's Office later issued an opinion saying undocumented immigrants suspected of paying coyotes could be prosecuted as conspirators. But Arpaio's actions are already causing some controversy.
On Wednesday night, Arpaio and his posse launched patrols in desert areas and major roadways southwest of Phoenix in search of illegal immigrants to arrest. FOX News' William LaJeunesse rode along on some of the patrols.
The group was comprised of existing Maricopa County sheriff's deputies and members of the department's 3,000-member posse reserve of trained volunteers.
The posse was patrolling the area here for illegal immigrants who pay smugglers to cross through Arizona, the busiest illegal entry point along the 2,000-mile U.S.-Mexico border. There was at least one arrest Wednesday night.
Those who are captured by the posse may end up in jail, charged under the state law that allowed local law enforcement agencies to charge suspected smugglers in Arizona — it was already a federal crime.
It has been used against more than 100 illegal immigrants in Maricopa County this year. The law was meant to crack down on smugglers, but under a disputed interpretation, County Attorney Andrew Thomas argues the law also can be applied to the smuggled immigrants themselves.
Thomas maintains illegal immigrants who pay smugglers to enter the United States are committing conspiracy to smuggle and can therefore be prosecuted under the state law. It's punishable by up to two years in jail.
"It's going to be a help to the county," posse member D.J. Pigott said. "Illegal immigrants are getting everything that, in my estimation, they should not get. We're being overrun by these people. If the federal government is not going to do it, the sheriff is going to do it."
It remains to be seen whether a judge will uphold the smuggling law as applicable to illegal immigrants. Lawyers for some arrested illegal immigrants have filed motions to have the charges dismissed.
The Center for Human Rights and Constitutional Law in Los Angeles is challenging Thomas's interpretation.
"We agree with Andrew Thomas that federal immigration policy is a mess," said Peter Schey, director of the human rights group. "But we part company when it comes to what should be done about that. We don't believe anyone has the right to break the law because they're frustrated with federal policy."
Even the authors of the state smuggling law say it was meant to crack down on violent immigrant smugglers — not the people they're transporting.
"I never intended that immigrants would be arrested," said Rep. Jonathan Paton, a Republican who was one of three legislators to write the smuggling law.
Other police agencies say that arresting illegal immigrants under the law would overwhelm them financially.
"I can't afford to do what Sheriff Arpaio is doing," said Sheriff Tony Estrada of Santa Cruz County, one of four Arizona b
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Quote:
Originally posted by Amiton:
Or am I out of line and introducing things irrelevant to the discussion? (see the False Dilema point above).
I'm not sure if this was taking a shot at me personally or what. I called that guy out for saying there was only one choice, support the Minutemen or want illegals in the country. But this...
Quote:
The group was comprised of existing Maricopa County sheriff's deputies and members of the department's 3,000-member posse reserve of trained volunteers.
...makes most of my point for me, and is very relevant to the discussion. I underlined the parts I felt are appropriate to what points I was making vis-a-vis the Minutemen. I have no problem with trained law-enforcement personnel safeguarding smuggling lanes. I do have a problem with untrained idiots with guns doing the same thing.
------------------------------------------
"A revolution without dancing is no revolution at all." - V
Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SevenPercent:
I have no problem with trained law-enforcement personnel safeguarding smuggling lanes. I do have a problem with untrained idiots with guns doing the same thing.
I agree. But the Minutemen are hardly acting in the same capacity as Border Patrol or even the so-called Posse in Arizona. They are mostly just sitting in lawn chairs with binoculars, a cell phone, some bottled water, and a first aid kit. They call in those they spot and help any that need help.
Its not reported...but thats their business model.
Its not a whole lot different then a neighborhood watch. I'd go myself but its really hot down there in the summer. But my vacations coming up in July and if I spot any illegals during my roadtrip to visit family in the Great State of West By-God Virginia...I'll call them in. I'm not trained...but I can manage a phone call as good as any deputy or border agent.
H
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Quote:
Originally posted by SevenPercent:
I'm not sure if this was taking a shot at me personally or what. I called that guy out for saying there was only one choice, support the Minutemen or want illegals in the country. But this...Quote:
The group was comprised of existing Maricopa County sheriff's deputies and members of the department's 3,000-member posse reserve of trained volunteers.
...makes most of my point for me, and is very relevant to the discussion. I underlined the parts I felt are appropriate to what points I was making vis-a-vis the Minutemen. I have no problem with trained law-enforcement personnel safeguarding smuggling lanes. I do have a problem with untrained idiots with guns doing the same thing.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, 7%. I wasn't taking a shot at anybody. I asked that as a legitimate question. I'm interested in what people have to say and since this wasn't directly tied to the Minutemen group, I asked. The intent was a gesture of civility, not my poor attempt at being an ass.
The article seemed to fit in well with the counterpoint of the discussion - on both sides - but from a slightly different perspective. They're still civilian volunteers, but they're trained and enabled by a formal law organization.
At any rate, it was supposed to be a submission to contribute to the debate that was in the mainstream press. It illustrates some of the issues on both sides of the debate, so I had hoped to put it out here without being partial to one side or the other right now.
Amiton.
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"a Minuteman volunteer from Colorado was arrested after he was found with two migrants in his car. According to the Border Patrol, the volunteer came across the migrants after they flagged him down for food and water while he was driving in Hidalgo County."
"We don't yet have complete information on the arrest," he said. "What we do know is that this individual was taken into custody, but that the charges were eventually dropped."
Hmm... Looks like a Minuteman violated his creed. He was driving around, was flagged down by immigrants who wanted food and water, pulled over, took them in, was arrested, and the charges were dropped.
Not the stinging condemnation I was looking for. But now I've been trapped. I said I'd change my position if Minutemen were arrested for their illegal actions, and this SOB pulled over to help people who flagged him down. Never mind the charges were dropped. He was arrested, and I was very clear in my earlier statement.
So, true to my word.
I totally condemn the Minutemen for their illegal actions.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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