US Border Patrol gives Minutemen locations to Mexican Gov't. !!

POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Monday, May 15, 2006 13:40
VIEWED: 14225
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ANTHONYT

Thursday, May 11, 2006 12:05 AM

"I realise you probably don't know what vigilantism means though, so do you need me to quote the dictionary or go straight to drawing the inevitable picture for you?

Vigilantism is people taking the law in to their own hands, since that's pretty much what they're doing, because your law enforcement agencies are incapable of doing it themselves I think the word fits quite well. Most people in most democratic nations demand the government improves they're law enforcement agencies, your mates grab their guns and head for the border."

Whatever you think of the idea of vigilantes, or the Minutemen, or the Neighborhood Watch, or the Guardian Angels, or anyone else...

Let me set you straight on something.

Vigilante is a Spanish word with Latin roots.

It means 'Watchman.'

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

CITIZEN

Thursday, May 11, 2006 12:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
That strikes me as a blazingly good idea, especially since it SOUNDS like the National Guard is meant to Guard our Nation, and patrolling the border seems a good way to do that.

You could easily divide up the thousands of National Guardsmen into small groups of 4 men led my a Customs/Border Patrol officer. Then they could patrol the border in force and with effectiveness.

Now call me a loony but given the choice between a tooled up untrained citizen and a trained national guard patrol I'd go with the patrol.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

CITIZEN

Thursday, May 11, 2006 12:18 AM

It comes from the latin Vigil.

But for all your wanting of it to mean the night watchmen of Rome (Vigiles Urbanus) that's not what it means.

# One who takes or advocates the taking of law enforcement into one's own hands.

# self-appointed doer of justice.

Vigilante group:
A group organized without government authority to enforce its own concept of law and order or to advance its own interests outside the established process of law.
www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/100-20/10020gl.
htm

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

SOUPCATCHER

Thursday, May 11, 2006 12:19 AM

I'm just catching up on the explosion in posts on this thread so these comments are more in the way of generalizations rather than directed at specific points.

To me, the Minutemen are not so different from gangs who use the threat of violence to intimidate and harass those who are weaker than them. You get no points in my book for going after those who got a shorter end of the stick than you did. Especially not if part of the motivation stems from a belief that Americans should look a certain way and that those who do not are less deserving of basic human rights. The Minutemen are taking the easy way out. Picking on the stragglers, so to speak, instead of going after the strong. If they were really serious about reforming our immigration policies they would be filing lawsuits against corporations, leading boycotts of various industries, lobbying for an increase in the wages paid to workers in certain fields (and accepting the increase in prices that would follow), etc. In other words, going after the most powerful root causes for our immigration problems. But no, it's always easier to kick down than up. ETA: Especially if you believe the ones you are kicking are less human because of the color of their skin.

Our first Minutemen stood up to the most elite army in the world. Today's Minutemen target some of the most disadvantaged people on this continent. Heroes? Bullshit.

SOUPCATCHER

Thursday, May 11, 2006 12:37 AM

What the Minutemen say to the media and what they say when they think the media aren't around are two different things. First and foremost this is a publicity stunt. So I would be surprised if they actually put something on their website that was representative of what they thought or what they planned on doing. If you have the time, I recommend reading some of the articles written by those who have gone undercover. I linked to a report from a TV station in Phoenix further up the thread. Here's a report from the Southern Poverty Law Center (an organization that monitors hate groups): http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=557 .

ETA: This is in regards to StillFlyin's post quoting from the Minuteman website.

ANTHONYT

Thursday, May 11, 2006 12:40 AM

Quote:
"It comes from the latin Vigil.

But for all your wanting of it to mean the night watchmen of Rome (Vigiles Urbanus) that's not what it means.

# One who takes or advocates the taking of law enforcement into one's own hands.

# self-appointed doer of justice.

Vigilante group:
A group organized without government authority to enforce its own concept of law and order or to advance its own interests outside the established process of law.
www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/100-20/10020gl.
htm"

Well, if that's the definition you're using...

Then the Minutemen don't qualify. They don't take law enforcement into their own hands. They don't enforce their own concept of law and order.

They observe and report. Or am I mistaken? Have they been lynching Mexicans and summarily executing them? I hadn't heard.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

CITIZEN

Thursday, May 11, 2006 1:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT
Well, if that's the definition you're using...

And what definition do you expect me to use, other than the one that everyone uses and understands? Your's seems to be an attempt at spin.

As for the rest: vigilantes are exactly what they are, they've taken it upon themselves, in the absence (this may be perceived or actual) of professionals to do the job of the border patrol, who enforce the law.

Their doing the job of professionals whose job it is to enforce the law:
# One who takes or advocates the taking of law enforcement into one's own hands.

# self-appointed doer of justice.

Both fit quite well.

From Soupcatchers website:

Quote:
"It should be legal to kill illegals," said Carl, a 69-year old retired Special Forces veteran who fought in Vietnam and now lives out West. "Just shoot 'em on sight. That's my immigration policy recommendation. You break into my country, you die."

Carl was armed with a revolver chambered to fire shotgun shells. He wore this hand cannon in a holster below a shirt that howled "American bad asses" in red, white and blue. The other vigilantes assigned to Station Two included a pair of self-professed members of the National Alliance, a violent neo-Nazi organization. These men, who gave their names only as Johnny and Michael, were outfitted in full-body camouflage and strapped with semi-automatic pistols.
...
Vigilante militias have been capturing, pistol-whipping and very possibly shooting Latin American immigrants in Cochise County since the late '90s, when shifts in U.S. border control policies transformed the high desert region into the primary point of entry for Mexico's two most valuable black market exports, drugs and people.

But the Minuteman Project raised the stakes with a highly publicized national recruiting drive followed by a campaign of deceitful media manipulation.

In fact a fair few posts here call them Vigilantes to. They have options in a democratic government for ensuring the law is upheld by those duly appointed to do so; they chose to run around on the border with guns that makes them...

Vigilantes.

When I first heard about this story (a few days before this thread) I felt unsettled about it. Funnilly enough the more people try to convince me that it's a good thing and the more I learn on the subject the more my initial reaction is confirmed.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

ANTHONYT

Thursday, May 11, 2006 1:44 AM

Quote:
"And what definition do you expect me to use, other than the one that everyone uses and understands? Your's seems to be an attempt at spin.

As for the rest: vigilantes are exactly what they are, they've taken it upon themselves, in the absence (this may be perceived or actual) of professionals to do the job of the border patrol, who enforce the law."

Sorry, but your definition still doesn't work. Unless you can find me references to the Minutemen enforcing the law? You know, like a news article that says, "Member of the Minutemen organization was arrested today for capturing illegal immigrants, handcuffing them, and etc." Have they been running down border-crossers and arresting them? I hadn't heard.

Have they been murdering border-crossers? Again, I haven't heard.

Have they been doing something other than observe-and-report? I haven't heard.

Let me be clear. If the Minutemen break the law, they should be arrested.

If they are observing crimes and reporting them to law enforcement, then they aren't enforcing the law. They're reporting crime to law enforcement. That is the duty of any citizen who witnesses a crime. It's not illegal. And it's not vigilantism. Not by YOUR definition.

However, if Observing illegal border crossing and Reporting that to the authorities is what you mean by vigilantism...

Then you are using MY definition. The one you don't like. The one that doesn't have people conducting illegal arrest, seizure, assault, or imprisonment.

So, help me out here. Are the Minutemen breaking the Law or not? Are they taking the law into their own hands? Or are they telling law enforcement about crimes being committed?

Which is it?

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

PIRATENEWS

Thursday, May 11, 2006 2:04 AM

SUCKERNOMICS

U.S. tipping Mexico to Minuteman patrols
www.dailybulletin.com/portlet/article/html/fragments/print_article.jsp
?article=3799653

Let's see, the Jews who own and control USA illegally order wideopen borders via NAFTA, WTO and United Nations Corporation, and accuse as "racist vigilante" any US citizen who opposes their treasonous illegal scam. The Jewish Hispanics who control Mexico illegally tell their Mexican citizens that USA belongs to Mexico and that USA should be invaded and destroyed.

The ZioNazi Jews in USA steal billions of US taxdollars to give to Israel (the most racist government on Earth), to build its apartheid wall INSIDE Israel, to make its Palestinian citzens into impoverished slaves inside their own nation. But those same Jews violently oppose a wall for USA to guard its external border.

This is also the goal inside USA, not with walls, but with NAFTA Highways that BYPASS entire US cities, to bring ALL citizens and manufactured products from Mexico, Central America and South America to overthrow USA.

Even the newspapers in Jewish Israel proudly compare their wall to the Jewish Communist Berlin Wall (very large graphic file):
newspagedesigner.com/users/4026/israelwall.jpg

Quote:
THE JERUSALEM BETHLEHAM WALL

Arab Semites are slaves INSIDE their own fukkin country of Israel
http://easycarts.net/ecarts/CounterPunch/CP_Books.html

www.unimaps.com/historic-israel-palestine3/

Arab Semites are slaves INSIDE their own fukkin country of Israel
www.palestinercs.org/separation_wall.htm

www.unimaps.com/historic-israel-palestine3/

Israel's goal in building the wall appears threefold; one, confiscation of land and water for future expansion of the West Bank colonisation, two, unilaterally redraw geopolitical borders, and three, encourage the exodus of Palestinians by denying them the ability to earn a living from their land.

Israel continues to deny the Palestinian people adequate water resources and restrict their movements to to such an extent as to make living in their village an unviable option.

The World Court in the Hague in July 2004 announced it's verdict that the wall is illegal and must go. A victory for the Palestinians, but the decision will most likely be ignored by Israel.

Arab Semites are slaves INSIDE their own fukkin country of Israel
www.palestinercs.org/separation_wall.htm

Arab Semites are slaves INSIDE their own fukkin country of Israel
www.palestinercs.org/separation_wall.htm

"From the time of King Solomon to our very days the Holy Land was either united with Trans-Jordan or attached to Syria or Turkey. Western Palestine was never a single and independent entity and certainly a part of that cannot possibly constitute an independent state, as envisaged in the various plans that are discussed from time to time. However, the basic reason for our opposition to an Independent Jewish state as that in prevailing circumstances the officially recognised representation of the Jewish people does not consider the authority of the Holy Law as binding in the public affairs of the Jewish people, and it is contrary to the wishes of G-d to create a Jewish State."
-Rabbi Yosef Tzvi Dushinsky, STATEMENT TO THE U.N. SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON PALESTINE, July 16, 1947
Jews Against Zionism
www.jewsagainstzionism.com

Arab Semites are slaves INSIDE their own fukkin country of Israel
www.ccmep.org/2004_articles/palestine/012304_israels_wall_and_why_its_
not_a.htm

Semite.
1 a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia inc

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