Bring the Troops Home...and then??
POSTED BY: Geezer
UPDATED: Thursday, May 4, 2006 08:10
VIEWED: 6147
PAGE 3 of 5
There is no rational argument for an immediate withdraw of troops that does not including accepting the very real possibility of massive death, but these people who are calling for immediate withdraw are doing so for completely selfish reasons, such as the Kerrys and the Moores, or completely irrational reasons such as the Sheehans, and it does not appear that they have any concern at all for the political consequences of their actions and words no matter how many people die. They will blame the US for collateral damage as they advocate policies that will result in as much or more death. They will take responsibility for nothing, and use the death to further their politics, entertainment careers or personal hatreds. The only moral and rational thing that the US/UK can do is to ignore these people.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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I don't remember Kerry, even to date, suggesting that we needed to do a complete withdraw from Iraq. It certainly wasn't what he was saying during the campaign. Not sure about Sheehan or Moore.
I do know that there is a broad spectrum of ideas from the left on this one, while from the right there only seems to be the argument that "we can't pull out. That would be a form of birth control wouldn't it?" Maybe they're getting their issues mixed up.
I like the question posed by this thread. The very fact that it's being asked suggests that we've at leat come to the common ground of recognizing our current involvement as a disaster.
If I'm misinterpereting you I'm sorry.
Well, one thing we'd accomplish is less American Deaths. There's that. You could argue, rhetorically, that "they're killing us over there so that they don't have to kill us over here," but I don't feel any safer over here, as it is.
We might stop being personally responsible for surges of fundamentalism over there, and with it the terrorism it is inviting.
Or, being pessimistic, if we are truly looking at long-term failure in Iraq, and I think we are, then by staying for 10, 20, 30 more years, we aren't helping these people at all...we are perpetuating this quagmire. By getting out, we can let the inevitable Civil War happen, and allow the country to restabilize at that point.
I don't like that answer. I think we can do better than that. What has made the most sense of all arguments I've heard, is to pull U.S. troops out of the Cities of Iraq, to use them to patrol the boders of that nation in an effort to stop the foreign influx of people who are joining the holy war, to stop the influence of the border countries from interfering with things in general. I don't know all the details on this one,
but the bottom line is pulling out of Iraq, while not my choice, is certainly no worse than what we are currently doing there. Perhaps I lack the optimism that would allow me to see all of the success we're having in that region...I'm not an Exxon Mobile Shareholder, but perhaps the war apologists lack the evidence that would support such success.
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and there's a question I would ask those of you who are now saying "these people are our responsibility. We have to think about their well being."
I mean, I like the humanitarian tone of your concern. You wouldn't be the same people though, who thought that idea in the Senate to make it a crime to provide humanitarian aid to illegal aliens was a good idea would you? Consistency in one's philosophy would be a virtue.
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Just flat out pack up and leave.
Sure, it sucks to be them, will cause a lot of carnage and death, and leave a state that will be at best very unfriendly to us.
Same damned thing is gonna happen if we stay and continue to screw it up too, only we'll also manage to piss off every nearby country, especially with the amount of threats and hate rhetoric being spouted at them right now.
The SMARTEST thing we could do, is pack up and leave, immediately.. put our crap back in the boats and planes and get out of that mess before we wind up deeper into the same post-middle-east situation the soviets did after afghanistan.
As for the poor locals left on the ground ? tough noogies, be glad we're LEAVING, instead of taking up permanent residence... you might actually get a shot at building your own government that's not a USA puppet-dictator regime like the Shah or Saddam.
Folks, you can't give freedom to others at the point of a gun, they won't take it, don't want it, and will resent you for it - the only way they'll ever be free is if they're willing to spill the blood to TAKE it, and KEEP it - and believe me, as long as we're there and class them folks as 'terrorists' same as the ones blowing crap up to get even with us specifically, that just ain't gonna happen.
To hell with the niceties, no one believes any of the BS rationale for us invading in the first place (not even our resident FF board cheerleaders) and no one is gonna believe any humanitarian rationalizations from us now.
Pull up stakes, get the hell out, and start having some of these guys do some good by actually securing our borders, or going back to their civvie jobs (if they haven't been outsourced, divorced and left homeless in the meantime) thus strengthening our economy and helping through their taxes to pay off the insane bill from this act of lunacy.
It's time to take that overcooked steak off the grill before it starts a fire.
Just fekkin LEAVE.
-Frem
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Citizen
I think you will find that we still have bases in Germany, because it is expedient for us to do so. They act as staging areas for American forces - in situations where we have to deploy in the region on an immedite basis - NOT because we are shoring up an young democracy!
We are also in the european region as part of the NATO agreement. We are no longer "occupying" Japan, but we have a large military presence there as well.
Your example makes no sense in the context of this thread.
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No it has every relevance, unless you honestly think there won't still be troops in Iraq because of strategic reasons 60 years from now.
In which case you'd be extremely naive.
Now beyond that a very big part of the continued presence was 'propping up' West Germany during the cold, which was one of the main reasons for having the headquarters for the Allied Rapid Reaction Corps there.
Germany was only 'rebuilt' recently, troops were still there precisely to 'prop up' and defend Germany until very recently.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.
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Your example still makes no sense in the context of this thread. We are talking about how we would go about removing troops from Iraq. Not whether or not it would be in "our" (because the UK has bases in Germany as well as troops in Iraq) political best interest to have strategic bases in the region 60 years hence.
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Firstly I pointed out that the bases are primarily British. Second I was saying we can't pull the troops out now, and part of the justification for that statement was the continuing presence in Germany.
Please actually read my post before replying to them.
So yes it is relevent. Telling me my post isn't relevent, not so much.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.
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Crajon
One can be fully supportive of the troops and still wish to bring them home.
They are not mutually exclusive.
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I have actually read your post citizen.
The example does not work in the context of this thread. You can argue all you want. Doesn't make it pertinent.
The thread is whether or not it is feasible or advisable to pull the troops out of Iraq NOW.
Perhaps you should read the initial post before you post a response to me.
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