Bring the Troops Home...and then??

POSTED BY: Geezer
UPDATED: Thursday, May 4, 2006 08:10
VIEWED: 6147
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GEEZER

Saturday, April 29, 2006 9:34 PM

Quote:
Thousands in NYC March Against Iraq War
Apr 29th By DESMOND BUTLER Associated Press Writer
NEW YORK (AP) - A day after the military announced that April was the deadliest month for U.S. forces in Iraq this year, thousands of anti-war demonstrators marched Saturday through lower Manhattan to demand an immediate withdrawal of troops.
Cindy Sheehan, a vociferous critic of the war whose soldier son also died in Iraq, joined in the march, as did actress Susan Sarandon and the Rev. Jesse Jackson.
"End this war, bring the troops home," read one sign lifted by marchers on the sunny afternoon, three years after the war in Iraq began. The mother of a Marine killed two years ago in Iraq held a picture of her son, born in 1984 and killed 20 years later.

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=104&sid=775595

So. We end our involvement in Iraq and bring the troops home, immediately, as soon as possible. The question remains, regardless of the rightness or wrongness of our actions in Iraq prior to this moment, do we have any responsibility to the Iraqi people to leave them in at least a viable position? We can't go back to 2003 and undo the entire thing. Does leaving them before they have a good start at a new government, and with the insurgency still trying their best to return to a non-democratic regime, really make sense? Is it fair?

If anyone has a suggestion of how we could accomplish a complete, immediate, pull-out of Coalition forces and leave Iraqis with any chance at a stable, just, government, I'd be glad to hear it.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

HARDWARE

Saturday, April 29, 2006 9:45 PM

Especially since our troops staying in the region just continues to turn it into a lightning rod and attract manpower to the opposing force. I'd like to see a few suggestions about how keeping the troops in Iraq is going to assure stability in the region and give the Iraqi's a viable government.

There are exact parallels to Iraq and Vietnam. Except this time we started the whole mess. I sure wish our current administration had a plan to get our troops out. Bush has already admitted he's leaving the whole mess to a succeeding adminstration. Now there's leadership folks.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

GEEZER

Saturday, April 29, 2006 10:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:
Especially since our troops staying in the region just continues to turn it into a lightning rod and attract manpower to the opposing force. I'd like to see a few suggestions about how keeping the troops in Iraq is going to assure stability in the region and give the Iraqi's a viable government.

There are exact parallels to Iraq and Vietnam. Except this time we started the whole mess. I sure wish our current administration had a plan to get our troops out. Bush has already admitted he's leaving the whole mess to a succeeding adminstration. Now there's leadership folks.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

Hey. If you want to start another thread asking "...how keeping the troops in Iraq is going to assure stability in the region and give the Iraqi's a viable government." go right ahead. You got any suggestions how an immediate pullout could be successful? And before you bring up Vietnam parallels, perhaps you should talk to the South Vietnamese who had to survive after our pullout there.

Just for the purposes of this discussion, let's assume that everyone now realizes that the Iraq invasion of 2003 was a bad idea, within the past week Bush and Co. have all resigned in disgrace, and there is now an administration in place that wants to pull out of Iraq immediately. How do they accomplish this without shafting the Iraqi people? Surely someone has a suggestion that doesn't just end up as another slam at Bush.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

ZISKER

Saturday, April 29, 2006 10:33 PM

It would involve magic.

But one way we might expidite the process is by cutting some of the frivilous civilian contractor costs that the Army is currently paying (ex. $100-200k per year for a civ to sit in a morale computer lab and watch the soldiers use it) and recycle that into the Iraqi training program. My friends there tell me it's coming along slowly, but surely, although there's problems with extended leaves because a) they can't get rid of them, no one would join and b) it makes it hard to build unit cohesion. My honest opinion is that to actually create stability we'd need to be in there a lot longer than this country has the stomach for - it will be a dead weight around the executive office's neck for however long we're there.

One day.
One plan.
One army of Browncoats.

On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.
http://www.serenityday.org/

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CITIZEN

Sunday, April 30, 2006 2:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
You got any suggestions how an immediate pullout could be successful? And before you bring up Vietnam parallels, perhaps you should talk to the South Vietnamese who had to survive after our pullout there.

Vietnam and Iraq are two very different situations. I'm not sure how bad things were for the South Vietnamese but they'd be worse for the Iraqi's.

Quote:
Just for the purposes of this discussion, let's assume that everyone now realizes that the Iraq invasion of 2003 was a bad idea, within the past week Bush and Co. have all resigned in disgrace, and there is now an administration in place that wants to pull out of Iraq immediately. How do they accomplish this without shafting the Iraqi people? Surely someone has a suggestion that doesn't just end up as another slam at Bush.

Erm, we can't.

Assuming the Iraqi army is fully manned and operational by next Tuesday and the 'insurgents' all get bored and go away by the following Thursday we could possibly start a staged withdrawal in the next few months.

But back to reality Allied troops are still stationed in Germany, after 60 years. JHQ Rheindahlen is still the largest allied military base in Europe.

I don't see a short term withdrawal as particularly likely.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

AURAPTOR

Sunday, April 30, 2006 3:51 AM

Does anyone remember Cambodia, and the Khmer Rouge ?

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

EVILDINOSAUR

Sunday, April 30, 2006 4:10 AM

it's a crappy situation, we really can't leave now that we've created all this chaos. However we also can't stay on our current course of action, as it's not working. I wish I had an answer.

"Haha, mine is an evil laugh."

CRAJON

Sunday, April 30, 2006 4:31 AM

If you want to bring the troops home then let them win agaist the terrorist. Support the troops, do not criticize what goes on there. Have protest in support of the troops, do not protest agaist them.

SERGEANTX

Sunday, April 30, 2006 5:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
...If anyone has a suggestion of how we could accomplish a complete, immediate, pull-out of Coalition forces and leave Iraqis with any chance at a stable, just, government, I'd be glad to hear it.

So would I. But let's face the ugly truth here, we can't. We've fucked them over royal and it'll only get worse. We've created the nightmare scenario that was used as an excuse to go in the first place - we've destablised an oil rich regime and made it ripe pickings for terrorists. The terrorists want Iraq so bad they can taste it - finally the wealth and the technology base they need to get their hands on nukes.

We can't and won't make things better for the Iraqi people because that was never our intent in the first place. The folks who created this aren't stupid. They knew this is how things would turn out and they knew it would leave the next administration with no choice.

Personally, I can't understand how it ever happened. Everyone knew exactly how this was going to play out. Anyone who cared to look into it, read the writing on the webpage (- literally, the neo-cons had been planning this for years and helping the Iraqi people wasn't part of the deal). In a sense, we've all been complicit in an invasion for conquest. That was the deal all along, still is. You can tell yourself it was for our defense (invaders always say that), but it sure as hell wasn't to create the good life for the Iraqis.

So lets quit pretending we give a shit. We took over, we can't leave. The question is, how are we gonna rule it without needless loss of life and without bankrupting our nation in the process? Once again, the answer is, we can't.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

FLETCH2

Sunday, April 30, 2006 5:58 AM

You do what every Empire in history has done. You conscript soldiers from another part of the Empire (lots of them) and you place them in country with American officers and support personel. You let them take the war to the enemy while recruiting locals to gradually replace them. Should be nice and stable in a decade or two.

In your case, go to Mexico, recruit 1 Million young men and say serve with us for 10 years and you get American citizenship or a cash bounty to repatriate to Mexico, your choice. You train them in the US put them in country in Iraq and pay their families in Mexico while they serve. The money flowing into Mexico empowers people there, boosts the economy and hopefully bring about usefull change.

This brings most US troops home gets politics out of the equation and tells the Iraqi's that they are screwed because no matter how many they kill there will always be more. Since Arab culture respects force various factions will over time decide to side with the winners.

It is of course completely immoral to the point of being unAmerican but it would get the job done.

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