Life imitates art: Blair calls for Global ALLIANCE
POSTED BY: piratenews
UPDATED: Monday, April 17, 2006 23:29
VIEWED: 4728
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Now, who is directing these believers? A book, like the Bible? Not really. You know, both the Bible and the Quran have their violent passages, but neither of them tells you to blow up cafes full of civillians, or blow up school buses full of children.
Actually, there are dozens of Quran passages that call for the death of non-believers. There are passages that say that if your mother/father/brother/sister/son/daughter/any other relative turns away from Allah, it is your "holy duty" to end their lives. I agree with you that they are being directed by crazy leaders, but those leaders are simply using what is already a part of Islam to get folks to do what they want. The root of this terrorism is in the religion itself. Do you think that if the Quran never said any of those things and preached tolerance like some Muslims try to say it does, that there would even be an opportunity for those leaders to get religious people all riled up? I don't think so.
You're welcome on my boat. God ain't.
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Quote:
Originally posted by reaverman:Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Now, who is directing these believers? A book, like the Bible? Not really. You know, both the Bible and the Quran have their violent passages, but neither of them tells you to blow up cafes full of civillians, or blow up school buses full of children.
Actually, there are dozens of Quran passages that call for the death of non-believers. There are passages that say that if your mother/father/brother/sister/son/daughter/any other relative turns away from Allah, it is your "holy duty" to end their lives. I agree with you that they are being directed by crazy leaders, but those leaders are simply using what is already a part of Islam to get folks to do what they want. The root of this terrorism is in the religion itself. Do you think that if the Quran never said any of those things and preached tolerance like some Muslims try to say it does, that there would even be an opportunity for those leaders to get religious people all riled up? I don't think so.
You're welcome on my boat. God ain't.
Well, I think the Quran probably has passages where Mohammed's followers fought nonbelievers and slaughtered them. You know, just like the Bible does. (Israelis slaughtering nonbeliever cities down to the woman and child.)
But, you know, they both do dictate tolerance. It's a case of wacko leaders favoring one passage and ignoring another, in order to get THEIR desires met.
It's been a while since I read the Quran, but I seem to recall that the startling price you pay for being a non-believer is... you pay tax.
Shocking.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:
Originally posted by reaverman:
Actually, there are dozens of Quran passages that call for the death of non-believers. There are passages that say that if your mother/father/brother/sister/son/daughter/any other relative turns away from Allah, it is your "holy duty" to end their lives. I agree with you that they are being directed by crazy leaders, but those leaders are simply using what is already a part of Islam to get folks to do what they want. The root of this terrorism is in the religion itself. Do you think that if the Quran never said any of those things and preached tolerance like some Muslims try to say it does, that there would even be an opportunity for those leaders to get religious people all riled up? I don't think so.
You're welcome on my boat. God ain't.
That makes it different to every other religion, erm how exactly? How are the Lords Resistance Army justifying raping killing and abducting in to slavery thousands of Children every year?
Could it be...
The Bible?
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore am no beast.
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Quote:
Originally posted by reaverman:
The root of this terrorism is in the religion itself. Do you think that if the Quran never said any of those things and preached tolerance like some Muslims try to say it does, that there would even be an opportunity for those leaders to get religious people all riled up? I don't think so.
I disagree. The religion itself isn't the problem, it's the believers. Don't kid yourself; there is no difference between a Muslim fundamentalist and a Christian one. These are people that can't see their holy texts as anything other than the literal word of God. The only thing separating Christian fundies from Islamic ones are the societal norms of a secular liberal country. Take away education, a social safety net, and rule by a nonreligious constitution and you'd see the exact same thing in the US.
Disagree? Here's a news article from just last year:
Quote:
Evan Dawson (Rochester, NY) 07/04/05 - You have probably never seen an army missile used in a church service or a pastor dressed in fatigues, but that is exactly what you'll find Sundays at New Born Fellowship Christian Center in Rochester, where church leaders have decided to conduct a new program called Spiritual Warfare.
http://www.13wham.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=DD427162-B871-4
F38-A532-6ACBD4CA684D
Is this really the message of Jesus? Gotta say, I don't think so. And there's plenty of stories like this to go around. But in our educated, liberal, secular society, these folks are reduced to the fringe. But they aren't in the Islamic world - they're the middle.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Threatening people with violence only makes them turn away from education and onto fundamentalism. The more we posture with nukes pointed at them, the more religious they'll get (which means the more nuts they'll become).
------------------------------------------
"A revolution without dancing is no revolution at all." - V
Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.
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God is only Dog, but backwards
Would a sane person take everything that comes out of the back of a dog so seriously ?
I say bring out the shovels, and smack the Mullahs and the Pat Robertsons, and the rest in the back of the head...
You have your gods, I have mine... and if I find myself in trouble and mine aren't looking, and maybe if I was nice to you...
yours might help me out a bit to return the kindness...
BTW
In the middle of some post hockey drinking, might have to check back tommorow to see if this still makes sense....
" Over and in, last call for sin
While everyone's lost, the battle is won
With all these things that I've done "
The Killers
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/killers/allthesethingsthativedone.html
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I once wrote a 3000 line computer program while drunk and it didnt contain a single error in logic or syntax. So you might be surprised how much sense hockey drinking makes in the morning.
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It may just be my imagination (And I pray to God that it is), but I think we're looking at another World War if this goes on.
I mean, come on. The most devestating war of all time was fought over religous indiference.
Can't we all just get along?
One fat man in space: A problem.
Two fat men in space: A big problem.
Five fat men in space: A larger problem than ever anticipated.
Ten fat men in space: A satellite.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SevenPercent:
I wonder how many people posting in this thread have actually read 1984.
I read it. Good book. The title was a couple of decades off, but still, very prophetic. Some exaggeration for dramatic purposes, but all in all, a must-read for politically minded Browncoats.
I read it in '76, and boy how close we're comin' in only 30 years.
Actually I liked This Perfect Day better; had a more upbeat ending
.We're on a bad road at the moment, but the future is not set.
Hopefully. Chrisisall
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Quote:
There's some misguided intelligence here.
Zealots blow themselves up, kill people, and go on rampages mostly because someone tells them to. Some people, due to their circumstances or their psychological makeup, need to believe in something. The things that most appeal to them are usually the things that tell them that they are important. They can change things. They are loved and they will be rewarded. They can be heroes and fight the great evil. They can be somebody, even in death.
In some cases, this belief is constructive. "Do good things and you can be a hero. Give to charity, help your neighbor, etc. God will reward you." In fact, I probably qualify for this camp, except that I don't follow my religious leaders. These guys we call Christians or Catholics or Jews or maybe Buddhists, or the followers of some other benevolent religion. These guys are also Muslim, though that gets forgotten.
In other cases, the belief is destructive. The zealotry is the same, but what they're being TOLD TO DO is different. "Go into that café and blow up the evil non-believers and you will be a hero and God will give you 99 virgins." Something like that. These guys we call terrorists. They have the same passion of faith. They're not intrinsically evil. But their passionate faith is being directed by someone to a destructive end. This happened during the Crusades, too, and also during the colonization of America by the Spanish. So don't drink the cool-aide and think that Muslims invented it.
Now, who is directing these believers? A book, like the Bible? Not really. You know, both the Bible and the Quran have their violent passages, but neither of them tells you to blow up cafes full of civillians, or blow up school buses full of children.
Are these believers directed by their own faith, a direct link to God? Not usually. Joan of Arc is pretty rare, and so are the people who get orders from their neighbor's dog or a burning bush or the snake in eden.
These believers are typically directed by politically driven religious figures. And what do these poligious figures want? Do they want the infidels crushed, and 99 virgins, and the will of God manifested on the Earth? Maybe. But it's not their primary motivation. Their primary motivations are money and power.
Sometimes a poligious figure will be trying to secure his power base, or defeat his rivals. Sometimes he just wants you to send him ten bucks so that God doesn't call him home. Whatever. It's not about God. It's not even about the religion. It's about money and power. Zealots don't set policy. They act on the policy of others.
So, our enemy is not the religious extremists. They could as easily be swayed to eat grasshoppers and pray to their housecat. They are believers, and they will follow their poligious leaders in pretty much whatever they are told.
Our enemies are the poligious leaders of other countries, who have selected us as either a legitimate threat to their power, or a scapegoat threat (like the Jews in Germany) with which to defeat their poligious rivals and unite their Zealot populace in a philosophy of hate.
I think when we stop fighting 'religious extremism' and start treating these nations as nations with leaders, we'll get farther. At the end of the day, the only difference between their poligious figures and our poligious figures, is what they think they can get away with. They're still politicians looking for money and power.
Anyhow, that's my view on things. Your glance into the prism may show different colors.
--Anthony
Quoted for truth.
---
“When peace comes to mean the absence of conflict on the one hand, and when conflict with an unjust and racist political order is a moral imperative on the other, then it is not difficult to understand that the better class of human beings are, in fact, deeply committed to disturbing the peace and creating conflict.”
~Farid Esack
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:
Originally posted by SevenPercent:
I wonder how many people posting in this thread have actually read 1984.
I read it. Good book. The title was a couple of decades off, but still, very prophetic. Some exaggeration for dramatic purposes, but all in all, a must-read for politically minded Browncoats.
I read it in '76, and boy how close we're comin' in only 30 years.
Actually I liked This Perfect Day better; had a more upbeat ending
We're on a bad road at the moment, but the future is not set.
Hopefully. Chrisisall
Whoa! I just started it today! Spooky...
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