Life imitates art: Blair calls for Global ALLIANCE
POSTED BY: piratenews
UPDATED: Monday, April 17, 2006 23:29
VIEWED: 4728
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I think when we stop fighting 'religious extremism' and start treating these nations as nations with leaders, we'll get farther. At the end of the day, the only difference between their poligious figures and our poligious figures, is what they think they can get away with. They're still politicians looking for money and power.
Osama bin Laden is the leader of no country. When he issued his Holy Fatwa against the West, he held no official seat of power. He did hide behind the skirts of the Taliban in Afghanistan, but has since been on the run ever since Sept 11, 2001.
Iran is, of course, a different issue. Their leaders are content to fund terrorist organizations ( Hamas ), denying the holocaust ever happened, and starting up a nuclear " power " program.
We could stop fighting the religouis zealots, but they won't stop fighting us. That's something you can bank on.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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There is a sad, solid fact which is constantly overlooked yet played out the whole world over; including this website, including this discussion board and including this thread day after day after day:
People will believe what they want to believe.
End of story.
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Yes, because only Blair and Bush and all the happy little Neocons the world over are 'unhip' to the idea of being blown up in a subway. And why is it always 'they' when you refer to the 'enemy'? Who exactly are 'they'? The Afgheni people? The Iraqi people? The Islamic faithful? What is survival to you - bomb people at random until you get 'them'? Why do you think people flock to the banner of the Islamic extremists? It's because not knowing who the real enemy is and attacking anything that moves makes it really, really easy to hate us.
I'm unhip to being blown up on the subway myself. I live near a major military installation in a major metropolitan area. And frankly, ever since GWB started his unending war on a concept, I've felt increasingly unsafe. The reason being is that we're fighting the wrong war, the wrong way, at the wrong time, and the wrong guys are gaining more and more power as it goes on. Wiretapping, leaking to out political enemies, wars on 'them', tax cuts for the wealthy during a time of war, the fact congress lets Bush get away with his 'I do not think this bill means what it is you say it means' every time (yes, McCain, I realize you have an anti-torture bill, but I'll sign it and tell you I think it means I can still torture - seriously, WTF?) It is Orwellian.
Memo to the administration: Shooting random brown people is not the way to fight terrorism. Global cooperation involving special investigative teams and preventative measures is. The administration thumbed its nose at the 9/11 comission's report and went on about its merry dance. Now they're gearing up for Iran.
Think about the saying "you're not paranoid if they're really out to get you." The fundie nutbags don't look nuts to the Islamic world because instead of protecting ourselves, we're threatening the Joe Muslim. I mean, seriously, some of you, think about what you are saying - we're going to attack a village to get to the rebels, or terrorists, or whatever - do you honestly think the villagers are thinking, 'sure, blow up my house by mistake, or gun down my wife, I'll get a new one'? - no, they think, maybe there's something to this America is the devil stuff.
People who aren't angry or aren't successful eventually give up and go home; if nothing else try to make a deal. People who are mad as hell and have minor successes will keep going until you have to kill them. I know which way I'd rather have the US acting. Instead, we get War Is Peace. Bah.
7%
* What is survival to you - bomb people at random until you get 'them'? No. I'd much rather bomb terrorist specifically, and leave everyone else alone. It's a waste of good bombs to just drop them at random, and we don't get the bad guys that way.
**I live near a major military installation in a major metropolitan area. And frankly, ever since GWB started his unending war on a concept, I've felt increasingly unsafe. - W didn't START this war, it was occuring long before he even took office. All he did was stand up and finally fight back. That you feel 'increasingly unsafe' is more a telling state of your persona, than anything else. Worry about the terrorist who hate you for doing nothing more than not believe in their God™ and living your life in freedom.
***Wiretapping, leaking to out political enemies, wars on 'them', tax cuts for the wealthy during a time of war, the fact congress lets Bush get away with his 'I do not think this bill means what it is you say it means' every time (yes, McCain, I realize you have an anti-torture bill, but I'll sign it and tell you I think it means I can still torture - seriously, WTF?) It is Orwellian. - Yes, wiretapping terrorist to find out what they are planning is a good idea. Only terrorsit would be against that idea. Tax cuts? WTF ? The wealthy were paying too much $$, and letting folks keep more of the money they work for has benefitted EVERYONE. The economy is in great shape. Unemploymenet is down. Way down. We need more tax cuts ( and less massive spending too ) We're not torturing
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Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
But, when someone who should be rational, and that someone has the power to implement the Orwellian things, starts saying Orwellian things, that's when people start saying things.
And when someone says, "not just in our own countries but the world over." I find that kinda scary.
Blair isn't King now, is he ? I was unaware that his power to implement his vision of how things should be rests on nothing more than a whim.
You miss my point. It is not that he has the power to change the world.
It's that he has control over a military that's capable of doing some rather significant damage. He is also very willing to use it based on nothing more that ideals.
His statement is also very general. It is not just addressing people who are on the offensive (or who plan to be), but attacking those that are against "his values".
Now what exactly are "his values" that he is defending? How much of a "threat" does one need to be before one becomes a target of defending these values as well?
His wording is extremely scary because of these things. Because he is willing to start wars with people/orgs that don't present a clear and present danger eg Iraq.
He is also the leader of a country. And as such can install said Orwellian things there. And if he does it, others will follow. The UK isn't exactly a country that isn't well respected. People will follow what they do.
I must also point out that hunger claims more lives (by several orders of magnitude actually) than terrorism did/does. So, to go after fringe elements to save a few hundred lives per year from terrorism, when there are tens of thousands of poeple that die from hunger every day...
----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki
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I must also point out that hunger claims more lives (by several orders of magnitude actually) than terrorism did/does. So, to go after fringe elements to save a few hundred lives per year from terrorism, when there are tens of thousands of poeple that die from hunger every day...
Now, that's ignoring the point totally, isn't it? Artifically comparing deaths from HUNGER to lives taken violently for no real reason what so ever ? It's a complete straw man argument, because no one is going to say " we should ignore hunger " , or " hunger isn't really that big an issue".
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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@AURaptor:
Straw man? Hardly. Or did you not read the several paragraphs that came before the one that you quoted?
But, to address this. Actually, it is not ignoring the point, it is putting things into perspective.
As a world, we are dumping billions into fighting a "war" that cannot be won and in the process creating a larger problem than before. Yet, we are almost entirely ignoring something far more lethal. Something that claims 10's of thousands of lives per day more than the other does in a year.
That is the point. Why do we continue to fight something in vain?
More to the point specifically regarding Mr. Blair. He does have the power to turn his own state into something Orwellian. This is a problem, because when he does, if it hasn't been done already, others will follow.
Now I did bring this up in my previous post (among other things). Why have you not addressed it (them)?
----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki
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Sevenpercent 
What you have to remember is that these measures are only used againts baddies and naughty people.
Like Muslims. I mean sure *some* Muslims, like three, maybe four of them are okay. But the vast majority are all rag head psychopaths who hate freedom children and puppies and want to blow everything up for no reason.
I mean as if government would ever abuse unlimited power! Like that's ever happened!
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore am no beast.
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I've been an Ahmadi muslim for about 12 years now, and before I converted,
I held many of the steroetypical attitudes of Auraptor. But to judge a religion
by the very tiny fraction who are driven by their own political or
religiously fanatical agendas is unfair to say the least. Should I judge the
truth of Jesus's teachings by the long and very bloody history of the Catholic Church
or the actions of so-called Christian nations and leaders who have used their
Holy Book to justify genocide, racism & theft? People need to take the time and
effort to study what is what.
I've spent many moons explaining to [mostly] Christians that most Muslims are
not terrorists anymore than they are. There are 7-10 millions muslims in America alone. Do you really think if we all had
death and mayhem on our minds that you all would be safe? But we don't. Why?
Because most Muslims strive [those that are practicing] to abide by the true teachings of their faith. If GWB was a true Christian, why did he go bomb Iraq when
none of the 9-11 terrorists were Iraqis. He should've attacked Saudi Arabia,
where the majority of 'em came from. And do you honestly beleive he wants
to catch Osama? Please. Once communism was dead, the West needed a new bogeyman
and Osama and Al Qaida were perfect replacements. What scares non-Muslims more than anything is the realization
that here you have a religion where the intensity of faith can be so great, that
its adherents can be convinced to die for their beliefs. This concept of
dying for your country or religion is hardly unique to Islam, though.
Every military campaign -- including GWB's Iragi ones -- have been carried on the slogans of "God is on our side."
But there is good news for anyone out there who is an Islamaphobe and thinks Osama
is right this minute planning, plotting and scheming to break into your
house and kill you in your sleep like an ailing pet. Ain't gonna happen.
The truth is this:
Islam has suffered a moral and spiritual decline in tha last 300 years --
as prophecied by the Holy Quran and Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw) --
and all those Muslims fanatics and governments who think or preach about killing the
infidels or blowing themselves up will get then into heaven are sadly mistaken.
Islam promised a revival of its true spiritual essence and teachings through the
advent of what's called the Imam Mahdi & Promised Messiah. This person came and
went (1835-1908) but the movement he initiated is flourishing with over 200-million
members worldwide in 179 countries.
This is the Ahmadiyya momevement in Islam [see website in sig.] and after all
the trials and tribulations have ended, there's only going to be one organization
that will survive the chaos with an intrastructure of devoted peaceful members and a leadership hierarchy that can
unite what reamins of the rest of the Islamic world -- Ahmadiyya.
=================================================================
Jonathan M.A.Ghaffar: MAGhaffar@wayoftheseekers.com
http://www.WAYoftheSEEKERS.com
http://www.TombofJesus.com
http://www.alislam.org
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Originally posted by AURaptor:
No. I'd much rather bomb terrorist specifically, and leave everyone else alone. It's a waste of good bombs to just drop them at random, and we don't get the bad guys that way.
I hope this was a joke. Because the shiatload of Iraqi civilian casualties as well as casualties in other nations would disagree that what you say is what is occurring.
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W didn't START this war, it was occuring long before he even took office. All he did was stand up and finally fight back. That you feel 'increasingly unsafe' is more a telling state of your persona, than anything else. Worry about the terrorist who hate you for doing nothing more than not believe in their God™ and living your life in freedom.
There was no 'occurring' war- for the love of Sweet Jesus! You can't fight a war on a concept! It's a tactic used by criminals! And I feel unsafe because we've stirred up a hornet's nest, and the village idiot hitting it with a stick is convinced they won't come out of the nest. It's got nothing to do with my 'persona', I still travel and shop and attend sporting events like the next guy (and don't use every yellow threat day as an excuse to buy duck tape). The fact that you still think they 'hate us for our freedom' makes you sound like nothing but an admin shill - you do realize that most of them hate us for our blundering foreign policy, right? Religion's just the vehicle they use as justification to blow things up.
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Yes, wiretapping terrorist to find out what they are planning is a good idea.
Well, since they have published news articles saying they tapped Quakers and Catholics, I guess I should watch out - who knows when a Quaker pacifist might suddenly go berserk and scream loudly at me.
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Tax cuts? WTF ? The wealthy were paying too much $$, and letting folks keep more of the money they work for has benefitted EVERYONE. The economy is in great shape. Unemploymenet is down. Way down.
I haven't seen a dime. And the outsourcing and trying to reclassify a burger job as 'manufacturing' has been real beneficial. As far as to whether or not they pay too much in taxes, that's for another thread.
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We need more tax cuts
During WARTIME? Are you high?
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We're not torturing anyone.
Bullshit! I can't believe you had the nerve to even type that sentence out. Pictures, articles, video, reports of prisoner deaths - let me guess: Fraternity pranks?
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It's absurd to worry about that. Prisoners at Club Gitmo are living the life, being fed great food, playing soccer, getting fresh prayer rugs to pray to mecca 5 x's a day.... it's a fucking resort down there. They've never had it so good.
Yes, detention in a military facility, with no trial, for many people who may actually be innocent of the charges - it's a regular shangri-la. It's not absurd to worry about what the government does in your name, it's what every citizen should, in fact, be doing.
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We're NOT shooting random brown people. It's ridiculous to assume we are.
Where was it that we killed a bunch of innocent children with a drone strike while shooting at 'terrorists'? Oh, that's right, Pakistan. Oh, and there was that Afgheni wedding, where we killed the bride. Oh, and then there was that ...
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like WIRETAPPING!! Gee, W is way ahead of ya on that one too.
I wonder how many people posting in this thread have actually read 1984. Or Animal Farm. Because you're throwing around the term like you don't even have the foggiest clue if it's accurate or not.
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He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.
Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.
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As a world, we are dumping billions into fighting a "war" that cannot be won and in the process creating a larger problem than before. Yet, we are almost entirely ignoring something far more lethal. Something that claims 10's of thousands of lives per day more than the other does in a year.
And, as a matter of fact, reaching out to developing areas by giving them technologies enabling them to feed and water their people tends to make those people like you and less likely to want you dead. If you could figure out a way to get cheap food, cheap water, and cheap power to most of the planet, you'd see 99% of the wars, conflicts, and terrorists vanish overnight.
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He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.
Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.
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