Illegal immigration
POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Wednesday, April 22, 2026 17:49
VIEWED: 84088
PAGE 14 of 34
Quote:It did exactly what it was intended to do, so in that sense it was an utter success: It created lots and lot of poor people and kept the landowners, generalissimos and corporate interests in power and put nations into debt bondage
The U.S. has a long-standing policy of destabilizing Latin American governments. All in the cause of bringing democracy to our neighbors...it has been an utter failure.
Quote:I could add Russia, Iran, Afghanistan, and Indonesia. As Citizen said- capitalism at work!
Look at the result in Chile, Paraguay, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Nicaragua, to name a few.
Quote:Umm... in early high school? Why not bring up the Contras? I was protesting at that time. Anyway, there is no special realtionship between the US and Latin America. The USA has fucked over the whole world. The only resaon why there are so many Latinos here is because it's easier to walk or hop a train than to catch a ride in a cargo container.
Instead of military intervention and political subterfuge, perhaps we could have invested in Latin America instead of exploiting it for cheap labor. Anyway, damage done. They are here because we were there. It's a done deal. So what now? I'm sorry to say, I think the arguments many of you are making are desparate ones. Too little, too late. Where were you when Trujillo was using the Dominican Republic as his personal playground and murdering anyone who looked at him the wrong way? How about when Pinochet's minions were throwing tires over people (los quemados) and burning them alive?
I sense some happy revenge in your post: the US has been a bad neighbor and deserves to get overrrun by the poor people that it has created. Well, maybe some of us deserve to be pitted at the bottom of the barrel against each other because of sheer stupidity, laziness and corruption... but not all of us. You make the same mistake that you accuse others of making: prejudicial generalization. And in the end, who wins? Not you. Not me. Only the very, very wealthy.
So, how do we fix the situation? The guest worker program that Bush proposes is indentured servitude to the corporations. Is THAT what you want?
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Free as in freedom, not beer.
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:You frakin' people make me laugh.
Originally posted by Brewski:
A little over 1,000 hours might teach them not to be here illegally. Yes, it would make them feel like prisoners, and that's the point actually. It is ILLEGAL, after all.
The words 'illegal' and 'legal' keep popping up here as if they were important or something.
They ARE important to ME. But I guess I'm one of these so-called idiots who played by the rules and got ahead. Just like millions of legal immigrants, and just like millions of Americans.
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
What's 'legal' about destablizing a government and allowing the new DICTATOR you put in place to torture his people to death at a whim???
I'm a little confused. Are we talking about Afghanistan, Iraq, or V is for Vendetta? I pick none of the above.
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
This is a nation of LAW BREAKERS. We bend the law till it breaks, then find the loopholes and the scapegoats. Peeps that don't see this are blind and/or stupid. What did Mal say?
"Chickens come home to roost."
Oh, that's right, no real messages in the show and movie we all love; it's just entertaining action, right?
We f**k with the world, and expect no ramifications, 'cause that's our 'manifest destiny'.
How arrogant.
Ok, so let's be isolationist then. All that will happen is World War III, since World War I and II we tried to also stay out of until all our friend countries came crying for help or we got attacked ourselves. We are a part of the world, and in that case we have a role to play. I kind've like being the Big dude on the block protecting others.
One thing is very true though - this illegal alien issue is a direct ramification of our society being the richest, spoiled rotten, corrupt one on the face of the Earth. I'd love to hear some ideas from you as to how to fix it.
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Strange socialist/humanist tag for this particular thread, huh?
Originally posted by Brewski:
"He robbed from the rich and he gave to the poor.
Stood up to the man and gave him what for.
Our love for him now ain't hard to explain.
The hero of Canton the man they call Jayne!
You really need to READ Milagro's post above.
Breakin' it down for ya Chrisisall
Speaking of arrogant -
Calling me arrogant, attacking my signature, then telling me to read some drivel I already read (which SygnyM just broke down beautifully), then telling me you "broke it down" for me tells me all I need to know about your arrogant opinion of me.
My signature is all about how a group of people take something real and make a fantastic tale out of it... so fantastic hardly any of the tale is true. Making heros out of criminals is absurdly funny to me... kind've why I'm laughing right now about your post, Chrisisall.
______________________________________________________
"He robbed from the rich and he gave to the poor.
Stood up to the man and gave him what for.
Our love for him now ain't hard to explain.
The hero of Canton the man they call Jayne!
http://boxofficebrewery.com
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Quote:
Start an Illegal Alien internment camp where if they are caught and owe the government money (fines, taxes, etc), they work to pay it off. Basically it would be similar to efforts going on in Arizona now. If they owe something like $10,000, then they would work at minimum wage until they paid it off. A little over 1,000 hours might teach them not to be here illegally. Yes, it would make them feel like prisoners, and that's the point actually. It is ILLEGAL, after all.
Please tell me my eyes are deceiving me, are you serious did you really say internment camp, You can't be serious??? that sounds like something a Nazi would say, you would really like to see people in an internment camp?
The answer is real simple..its so simple its almost ridiculous..penalize the businesses that hire them, fine them and take them to court, I see you constantly making excuses for businesses when its their fault this is happening. if some people go out of business OH well too bad!!, if there has to be some casualties in all of this I would rather see some businesses take the fall, in the long run we'll all be better off.
and raising the mininum wage would be an excellent idea, all they have to do is raise the price of goods and services which I also think is an excellent idea, Americans consume way to much anyway it wouldn't hurt us a bit to conserve and consume less.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brewski:
I'm a little confused. Are we talking about Afghanistan, Iraq, or V is for Vendetta? I pick none of the above.
Off the top of my head how about General Pinochet. The American Government helped over throw the democratically elected, but unfriendly government, for the friendly but brutal unelected dictator.
There's more.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore am no beast.
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Addition to my response to Milagro:
But to answer your question about the reaction to an influx of Dutch v an influx of Latinos (and how this demonstrates that USAers don't like "brown" people): I suspect that the problem is not "race" but class and culture. If the USA were to be inundated with the middle class of any country that believes and behaves as the middle class does here, it would be better tolerated. The problem is that MOST immigrees are poor, rural, relatively uneducated. If you think this isn't the case, look at the epithets against the Irish who were white and English speaking... but poor, uneducated, and rurral.
In addition, la mordita is a fixture of everyday life. And some immigrants seem to display an unwarranted sense of entitlement with just a smidge of vengeance. Who in their right mind would want to welcome people whose basic motivation seems to be "And chingada to you too"?
As far as making everything bi- or multi-lingual: A friend much smarter than I once said "There are no nations, just language groups." Here's one example: the borders of Poland (my heritage) have been drawn, redrawn, and even erased. Poland was ruled by foreign monarchies for many years. How do the Poles maintain their sense of identity? The language, of course. Then look at Canada. They have had no end of troubles with the Quebecois. India has over 400 languages, and China has about a dozen, but each nation has an "official" language which everyone must learn.
So, I would add one more point to my list of solutions: Make English the official language of the USA, with exceptions for the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo.
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Free as in freedom, not beer.
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Quote:I was calling the general perception that we (the US government) may do what we want with the rest of the world arrogant, not you specifically.
Originally posted by Brewski:
Calling me arrogant, attacking my signature, then telling me to read some drivel I already read
But referring to Milagro's post as drivel has me re-thinkin' that.
How about we take some of the fat, lazy welfare slurping trash from our society and export them to Mexico to make room for some hard working immigrents?
And yes, I know there are some fat, lazy immigrents waiting to get legal so they, too, can be welfare slurping.
I mean to say, let's not draw a line and say "Them, bad- we, good."
And if you're serious about internment camps, well, then I won't take up any more of your time. Your copy of Mein Kamph is waiting.
(Okay, I got my jab in; I just hope you're NOT serious...)
Scapegoating folk is the first step towards being a good Nazi Chrisisall
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Quote:And look how our society has suffered from those rowdy drunken micks. No Lucky Charms, that bunch.
Originally posted by SignyM:
The problem is that MOST immigrees are poor, rural, relatively uneducated. If you think this isn't the case, look at the epithets against the Irish who were white and English speaking... but poor, uneducated, and rurral.
(Half Irish m'self, just goofing)
Quote:
Who in their right mind would want to welcome people whose basic motivation seems to be "And chingada to you too"?
Okay, that's a point of solid agreement with me.
There's no easy answer to the problem of human garbage. It exists worldwide.
Legalize drugs and take the wind out of the drug trade. Give gangs no reason to fight or exist?
Life in prison to all who commit a crime of violence or use a gun?
Make prostitution legal and cut the legs out from under the slave-sex industry?
....just rambling....
I do agree about the national language thing tho Chrisisall
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Quote:Citizen, you're the only one who understands my full meaning.
Originally posted by citizen:
Off the top of my head how about General Pinochet. The American Government helped over throw the democratically elected, but unfriendly government, for the friendly but brutal unelected dictator.
(Me and my wife and son will be on flight 0071 landing in London tomorrow at 6am, can you meet us under the plane (baggage) and sneak us to your place? I want to illegally immigrate to the land of tea and biscuits to find my fortune...)
Code name: Dinsdale Chrisisall
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I'm not of mixed minds on illegal immigration (it's illegal) but on the solution. What I'm casting about for is a solution that improves everyone's life. Unfortunately, while the solution will require that the USA stop supporting dictatorships abroad (whether they be military or corporate), promote a middle class at home, secure the borders and promote a common language (Chris, let's talk!) the only "solutions" that our money-corrupted Congress is likely to vote for are the ones that put illegals into corporate indentured servitude. And they'll gut the middle class by using the survival fears of the middle class itself.
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Free as in freedom, not beer.
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Quote:Good ideas, but I'm afraid they're hard at work making sure the middle class is dismantled,
Originally posted by SignyM:
promote a middle class at home, secure the borders and promote a common language
securing borders must be shown to be profitable in some immediate way, and a common language would be something that would help make 'them' more a part of 'us', and governments like having a 'them' nearby, in case a problem arises that needs blame assigned.
Progressive government will help, if it comes. Hell, conservative government would help, but not the whatever-it-is-we-have-now government.
Chrisisall
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