Illegal immigration
POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Wednesday, April 22, 2026 17:49
VIEWED: 84088
PAGE 13 of 34
I don't see anyone asking the question---why are there so many illegal immigrants here now? Why are so many illegal immigrants Hispanic? While I sort of understand the suggestion of trying to imagine them as 10 million Rwandans, I think that circumvents the historical relationship between the US and Latin American countries. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but when we are reading in the media that there are between 11-12 million illegal immigrants here, I think that refers to all, regardless of origin, not only Hispanics? Does anyone have numbers for this sub-group?
In any case, I'm going to borrow a phrase from the title of a book by Juan Gonzalez "Harvest of Empire". The U.S. has a long-standing policy of destabilizing Latin American governments. All in the cause of bringing democracy to our neighbors...it has been an utter failure. Look at the result in Chile, Paraguay, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Nicaragua, to name a few. Instead of military intervention and political subterfuge, perhaps we could have invested in Latin America instead of exploiting it for cheap labor. Anyway, damage done. They are here because we were there. It's a done deal. So what now? I'm sorry to say, I think the arguments many of you are making are desparate ones. Too little, too late. Where were you when Trujillo was using the Dominican Republic as his personal playground and murdering anyone who looked at him the wrong way? How about when Pinochet's minions were throwing tires over people (los quemados) and burning them alive?
NAFTA set up the way for maquiladoras in Mexico who pulled out when cheaper labor became available in Asia. Europe has its own harvest of empire--that's where the Africans are going. The Buddhists call this karma or the simple law of cause and effect. What I mean is, we need to look at the whole picture here...compassionate responsiblity is not just for idiots who stare at their navels.
If I'm getting a little sketchy..up past my bedtime...forgive me. Ok, here it is. The America you are trying to preserve is already gone. Spanish IS the second language in the US. Have you called FedEx lately, Verizon, your utility company? If you go into the Department of Motor Vehicles, the written test is offered in Spanish. Chinese will soon be our third language. And I have to say, why the h*** not? Europeans speak 2 or 3 languages. Hispanics, believe it or not, do value education (however as my father says "it's hard to get an education on an empty stomach"), and are taught English in their schools. Yes, they are....I have cousins who speak English without an accent who have NEVER lived in the US. Doesn't anyone go to Chinatown, Little Italy, Queens, NY for chrissake...what about all the German and Scandinavian immigrants that settled throughout the Midwest and up into Oregon? Do you think Grandmother and Grandfather spoke English? It does really make me think, it's the brown-ness that upsets people. If Holland was under water and all the Dutch came here, would you notice, would you mind? I'm not saying this is watertight conclusion--feel free to tell me I'm wrong and why.
And by the way, many immigrants, legal or not, do learn English. I volunteer at a small language school that offers classes for immigrants and refugees. They come to learn after working 14 hours a day. Or after spending day after day in isolation raising their kids, with no one to talk to, because their spouse is the one with 2 jobs. Oh, except they can't take morning classes anymore. The Dept of Education cut funding, so the school can only offer night classes now. Go figure.
If Latin American economies don't improve, workers will continue to look for opportunies elsewhere. Why did European immigrants come here in the 19th and 20th centuries? This situation can not be changed by force. Can we go house to house and chase people back over the border with brooms? Many have been here for over 20 years. Not a good enough reason? Worked for the early American settlers (this land is your land, this land is my land...).
And for the record, m
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I just wanted to comment that I don't think the US intervened to set up democracies in Central and South America. For the most part it was setting up business partners - dictators - to exploit the region.
However, I also think that the US does need to tighten up its borders, considering that the Administration is not about to prosecute employers or raise the minimum wage. Having massive illegal cross-border traffic is a security risk.
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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Warning! US Senate Amnesty bill contains in-state tuition for illegals!
Quote:
Contact: William Gheen, Americans for Legal Immigration (ALIPAC)
WilliamG@alipac.us (866) 329-3999
The controversial proposal to give illegal aliens taxpayer subsidized in-state tuition at American universities is included in the immigration "reform" bill that also contains the Guest Worker Amnesty proposals according to the Washington Times!
Nine states allow illegal aliens to receive the in-state tuition rates.
"If this bill passes, the American taxpayers will be forced to pay for illegal aliens to replace their own children in the limited seats in college" says William Gheen of ALIPAC. "Professional polls in North Carolina show over 81% opposition to in-state tuition for illegal aliens. It is bad enough the Senate is proposing Guest Worker Amnesty. Now they want us to pay college tuition for illegal aliens!"
www.alipac.us/article1135.html
What do you expect from a Senate controlled by Reaver CanniBill Frist MD, who was busted for Medicare fraud, paid an $840-MILLION criminal fine for his felonious Hospital Corporation of America, then was elected to the US Senate, and promoted to Speaker of the Senate in his freshman term...
Quote:
The Mexican solution
How the Mexican govt arrests illegal aliens in Mexico
By Frank J. Gaffney, Jr.
The Washington Times
April 4, 2006
In fact, as a just-published paper by the Center for Security Policy's J. Michael Waller points out, under a constitution first adopted in 1917 and subsequently amended, Mexico deals harshly not only with illegal immigrants. It treats even legal immigrants, naturalized citizens and foreign investors in ways that would, by the standards of those who carp about U.S. immigration policy, have to be called "racist" and "xenophobic."
www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/Mexicos_Glass_House.pdf
For example, according to an official translation published by the Organization of American States, the Mexican constitution includes the following restrictions:
• Pursuant to Article 33, "Foreigners may not in any way participate in the political affairs of the country." This ban applies, among other things, to participation in demonstrations and the expression of opinions in public about domestic politics like those much in evidence in Los Angeles, New York and elsewhere in recent days.
• Equal employment rights are denied to immigrants, even legal ones. Article 32: "Mexicans shall have priority over foreigners under equality of circumstances for all classes of concessions and for all employment, positions or commissions of the Government in which the status of citizenship is not indispensable."
• Jobs for which Mexican citizenship is considered "indispensable" include, pursuant to Article 32, bans on foreigners, immigrants and even naturalized citizens of Mexico serving as military officers, Mexican-flagged ship and airline crew, and chiefs of seaports and airports.
Article 55 denies immigrants the right to become federal lawmakers. A Mexican congressman or senator must be "a Mexican citizen by birth." Article 91 further stipulates that immigrants may never aspire to become cabinet officers, as they are required to be Mexican by birth. Article 95 says the same about Supreme Court justices.
In accordance with Article 130, immigrants -- even legal ones -- may not become members of the clergy, either.
• Foreigners, to say nothing of illegal immigrants, are denied fundamental property rights. For example, Article 27 states, "Only Mexicans by birth or naturalization and Mexican companies have the right to acquire ownership of lands, waters and their appurtenances, or to obtain concessions for the exploitation of mines or of waters."
• Article 11 guarantees federal protection against "undesirable aliens resident in the country." What is more, private individuals are authorized to make citizen's arrests. Article 16 states, "In cases of flagrante delicto, any person may arrest the offNOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
What can I say. Once again the political game takes precedence over common sense.
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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Quote:I don't disagree on any particular point, sir.
Originally posted by milagrobean:
Anyway, damage done. They are here because we were there. It's a done deal.
The America you are trying to preserve is already gone.
Wow, that was a comprehensive post Chrisisall
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Quote:I don't think the question is what to do about illegals already here. I think the issue is how to change the factors involved. The US government corporation is far too greedy to either prosecute employers or raise the minimum wage. But as a measure of self-preservation the US does need to secure its borders.
Anyway, damage done. They are here because we were there. It's a done deal.
The America you are trying to preserve is already gone.
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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Quote:
Originally posted by old england dry:
Do you by any chance mean East Anglia, the part of England made up of the counties of Norfolk, Suffolk and Essex?
I lived in Oxfordshire, aka Oxon, and can't resist using the word "shire" in a sentence. East Angliashire is populated by hobbits. Are you a hobbit? I used to hang out in JRR Tolkein's bar & grill in Oxford. Just your usual gang of drunken trolls and goblins.
www.minutemanhq.com
Quote:
Migrants Find a Gold Rush in New Orleans
Word spread to Latino laborers as Katrina's floodwaters ebbed: There is work with good money and no questions about papers.
By Sam Quinones
LA Times
April 4, 2006
As the floodwaters of Hurricane Katrina receded in September, roads filled with residents leaving the city, their cars, SUVs and moving vans jammed with what they had salvaged of their lives.
But another mass movement was taking place on the other sides of the highways.
Thousands of men from Mexico and Central America were driving into the city. Word had spread throughout the Latino immigrant diaspora in America that the city had plenty of work, construction wages had doubled to $16 an hour and no one was asking for papers.
www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na-labor4apr04%2C0%2C685
8623.story
There are still at least 500 corpses rotting in their homes, while the survivors are still not allowed to return to their homes, nor allowed to work. But illegal aliens terrorists are welcome, especially to work for the Jewish casino robber barons. 100,000 homes in New Orleans are scheduled for demolition, even tho most are repairable, but Gangsta Govt won't allow it.
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Mexican troops arrive Thursday afternoon in Bexar County, Texas, as they make their way towards KellyUSA in San Antonio to bring aid for Hurricane Katrina victims. Metro photo by William Luthers ©2005 San Francisco Chronicle
On September 8, the Mexican Army was received with honors at Kelly Air Force Base by the mayor of San Antonio, Texas. Local news channels noted the fact that the Mexican Army operated on U.S. soil after 159 years of absence, last time being the Mexican American War.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina
www.infowars.com/articles/us/mexican_troops_enter_texas_armed.htm
Mexican troops attack United States
In what can only be called a military attack, Mexican troops brandishing weapons stole contraband worth millions of dollars while holding Border Patrol agents at gunpoint. The media spins the story as if it were a standoff. A standoff would have been if no one got the dump truck or the drugs. There have now been over 800 killed in the South Texas border zone in the last year. Car bombs in Dallas, machine-gunning deaths on a daily basis, the US Mission has been shut down in Neuvo Laredo because of persistent rocket-propelled grenade attacks. The border incident occurred Thursday evening when Border Patrol agents attempted to pull over a dump truck on Interstate 10 in Hudspeth County, Texas. The driver fled from the agents, exiting the freeway and driving toward the Rio Grande which runs within 2 miles of the interstate in this portion of West Texas. The driver abandoned the truck after it became stuck in the river bed, escaping into Mexico. Agents called for reinforcement from the Texas state troopers and Hudspeth County sheriff and began unloading the haul – estimated to have been nearly 3 tons – when everything changed. Officers "started to retrieve the bundles when the armed subjects appeared," said Agent Ramiro Cordero, Border Patrol spokesman. According to Hudspeth County Chief Deputy Mike Doyal, the dump truck driver returned with armed men, some of whom drove "official looking vehicles with overhead lights." Some of those armed, Doyal told the El Paso Times, appeared to be Mexican soldiers in uniform with military weapons. As both sides faced off, a bulldozer appeared froNOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
If we were to actively promote immigration, we would have to
a) change the laws to make them "legal" to work,
b) ensure that all immigres speak, read and write English so that they're not at a language disadvantage: You can't read a Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) or even "Hearing Protection Required" if you can't read English
c) understand their rights as workers...
...So, pleasing neither side, it seems to me that there is a multi-pronged solution to the problem of illegal immigration:
1) Increase Border Patrols and Port Security to the point where it is actually effective. If that means build a wall, then build it.
2) Stop interfering in other nations' internal politics. Unlikely, but since we always seem to come down on the side of the oligarchs that might be a positive thing.
3) Raise our Federal minimum wage. It's counterinutitive- you would think that a higher minimum wage would increase the "draw" into this country- but companies are simply not going to pay a non-English speaking person $9/ hour. And enforce it. If you find a company that violates the minimum wage law, drive them out of business with fines, put their (corporate) head on a pike by the city gates. The other will get the message.
4) Promote real international unionization. US dollars in a Haitian strike fund would go a LONG way in Haiti.
5) Take the current immigrees (Indian, Russian, Phillipine, Chinese) and give them English literacy tests and English classes. If they don't learn to speak the language at a rudimentary level in six months, boot them out.
The crux of your post SygnyM. I have a few things to point out about some of your points:
a.) "Change the laws to make them "legal" to work"
This basically gives illegal aliens a free pass into the U.S. without earning it. Something MANY legal immigrants do not appreciate or support is that our laws are such that the lawbreakers are getting ahead. Unless you're saying to broaden our current legal immigration capabilities, which I wholeheartedly agree with. I'm of the opinion that Ellis Island should never have been closed.
b.) "Ensure that all immigres speak, read and write English so that they're not at a language disadvantage..."
Who's going to pay for this? Not only are illegal aliens ALREADY getting this benefit if they want it in many states, but many are instead fighting to make everything multilingual! It does drain state economies - are you saying you want to make this a Federal program?
c.) "Understand their rights as workers..."
Find me the money to try and enforce this. Many employers (to stay afloat) hiring illegal aliens do it under the table. Giving someone who isn't even a member of the country rights is the first step towards MORE abuse of the system.
1.) "Increase Border Patrols and Port Security to the point where it is actually effective."
While I agree, the $$$$ for this is going to be ultra-expensive. Perhaps even more expensive than OIF, except it would be a yearly bill. At the moment I'm thinking we should privatize the Border Patrols to groups like the Minutemen as well as beefing up our ICE personnel.
2.) "Stop interfering in other nations' internal politics. Unlikely..."
Highly unlikely. Global economy = Global concern with politics, diplomacy, and military strategy. They all are tied together and it has been proven in U.S. history what happens when we try to take a more isolationist stance.
3.) "Raise our Federal minimum wage."
I wish you were joking. Raising the minimum wage will force MORE businesses, especially small businesses, to hire people (= illegal aliens) under-the-table since they couldn't pay for the insurance and wages of the average worker. Raising the minimum wage benefits Unions the most, small companies and minimum wage workers the least.
If we do as you say, many small businesses in America will go OUT of business, because they are the people most negatively affected by increasing minimum wage. And I'd love to know how to pay for the manpower
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Quote:You frakin' people [* MOD ACTION: personal attacks and flaming are not accepted on these forums -- if this continues, threads will be moved wholesale to troll country and accounts may be suspended *]
Originally posted by Brewski:
A little over 1,000 hours might teach them not to be here illegally. Yes, it would make them feel like prisoners, and that's the point actually. It is ILLEGAL, after all.
The words 'illegal' and 'legal' keep popping up here as if they were important or something.
What's 'legal' about destablizing a government and allowing the new DICTATOR you put in place to torture his people to death at a whim???
This is a nation of LAW BREAKERS. We bend the law till it breaks, then find the loopholes and the scapegoats. Peeps that don't see this are blind and/or stupid. What did Mal say?
"Chickens come home to roost."
Oh, that's right, no real messages in the show and movie we all love; it's just entertaining action, right?
We f**k with the world, and expect no ramifications, 'cause that's our 'manifest destiny'.
How arrogant.
Quote:
"He robbed from the rich and he gave to the poor.
Stood up to the man and gave him what for.
Our love for him now ain't hard to explain.
The hero of Canton the man they call Jayne!
Strange socialist/humanist tag for this particular thread, huh?
You really need to READ Milagro's post above.
Breakin' it down for ya Chrisisall
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www.rense.com
So with so few criminal Mexicans in Tennessee, why would TN Govt print its driver license handbook and tests in Spanish? Why would TN Govt sell 250,000 driver licenses to ILLEGAL aliens, without arresting and deporting them? Could it be... TREASON?! AND NOTE THE TERRORIST SUICIDE BOMBER EAGLE CARRYING A STICK OF TNT!
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Mexican illegal invaders plot Brown Out on Communist May Day in USA
Militant, seditious Mexican and Latin American organizations are calling for a "brown out" on May 1, 2006 (a pagan holiday). Illegals should stay home from work that day, a day that will allegedly "bring the American economy to its knees." Navito Lopez, president of the Mexican American (notice Mexican comes before American) Political Association said that one day without illegals working would "send a stern message to Washington." Hear! Hear! I say go for it! What arrogance. These jokers promoting this stop work day live in a dream world if they think a few million illegals skipping work for one day is going to even cause a ripple in our economy. If 50-75 million natural born Americans and legally naturalized citizens stopped work for one day, that would send a thundering message.
www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/3/30/105135.shtml?s=et
www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd181.htm
"You can't stop the signal!"
-Mr Universe, Pirate TV
FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO (VERSION 2)
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php
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