Illegal immigration
POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Wednesday, April 22, 2026 17:49
VIEWED: 84088
PAGE 12 of 34
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Originally posted by piratenews:
Another blindingly intelligent conversation from Fletcher2.
Oh I'm sorry, were we having a "conversation?" Call me old fashioned but I always thought a "conversation" involved both sides speaking and both sides listening. I thought you were ranting and I was hurling insults from the peanut gallery. My apologies, had I known this was a "conversation" I would have brought tea and crumpets.
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Can you read the fact that US Border Patrol agents agree with me on their own website?
Even if that were true even a broken watch is right twice a day. You can't even make that average.
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And you DON'T think there's something wrong with seeing Serenity 8 times in a theater? Unless perhaps at a dollar movie.
As a Browncoat that likes this show, has met and likes some of the people in it and who wants there to be a Serenity 2, no I think seeing it 8 times was my way of trying to get my show back. In fact hard cash at the box office the only way that the suits in Hollyweird will ever pay attention. Did you see it in the theatre? Did you buy the DVD or the TV series? Are you a fan of this show or does this board just give you a convenient soap box to spew your hate messages?
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Why don't you go to a city council meeting, or county commission meeting, or state legislature, and SPEAK in public forum?
Well I _would_ but I'm certain that the whole 1776 thing was about making sure that American politics was no longer any of my business.
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In Serenity, don't you comprehend the Bad Guys work FOR The Govt? Or do you just like watching The Govt slaughter innocent people with guns and mind control - both in the movie and the Real World?
Actually it's far more complex than that. There is no evil empire in the Firefly 'Verse, both sides in the unification war believed that they were in the right and that what they did had the noblist of reasons. This is Joss here, he doesn't write black hats and white hats, he writes shades of grey. That's why the Operative lets the crew go in the end rather than just slaughter them because his faith in a perfect world was shattered by Miranda. A typical movie villian is one dimensional and singlemindedly evil to the end. The Operative has beliefs that guide his actions, when his Masters betray those beliefs he can no longer support them.
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Wow, that was special. I love getting into political battles with people, but usually there is more to work with. A few observations regarding your response to my post:
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Originally posted by Khyron:Quote:
Originally posted by Phaedra:
For me the marches represent what democracy should look and sound like. A group of people (citizen or not) mobilizing peacefully for their rights.Quote:
ILLEGAL immigrants have rights?
Hmmm . . . Why yes they do. Fundamental rights (like freedom of speech and the freedom of assembly) apply to all persons, regardless of citizenship status.Quote:
Regardless of how one may feel about immigration, 500,000 marchers at one time sends a powerful message.Quote:
In this case, that's a bad thing. Illegal immigrants shouldn't have political clout.
Well, that's your opinion which you have the right to. Personally I a big fan of the Bill of Rights and the Fourteenth Amendment. The immigration protests have been far better organized and more effective than the recent anti-globalization protest. Also you take for granted that all members of the protest were "illegal immagrants," many were natural born and naturalized citizens who are concerned for the rights of others.Quote:
The people who marched are our neighbors, coworkers, friends and fellow Americans. They deserve respect.Quote:
That's a stupid comment. Especially the fellow American part. I'll say it again, THEY'RE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. They are NOT American. If they were American, they wouldn't be illegal immigrants (at least not while they're living in America).
Well, darlin', technically the contenents are North and South America, which would make them Americans. The colloquial use of the term is misleading since you're infact referring to US citzens.Quote:
It's a shame that some people are so self-righteous when it comes to these sort of issues that they totally miss the point.
I'm sorry, did you have a point. I was simply writing about my impressions having participated in the marches. Once you come up with an articulated point beyond xenophobic rantings, I'll get back to you.
Kisses,
Phaedra (a bad luck name)NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Phaedra, you just want us all to see these illegals as you do- equals to us, human men and women that could be our friends and even family, given the chance, right? Like, if not for the grace of God, we could be them, wanting to be here, is that it? Well, if you think you're gonna change peoples minds here, think again Miss.
Originally posted by Phaedra:
Once you come up with an articulated point beyond xenophobic rantings, I'll get back to you.
But I'm with ya
.Illegal on Earth Chrisisall
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Originally posted by Phaedra:Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:Quote:
ILLEGAL immigrants have rights?
Hmmm . . . Why yes they do. Fundamental rights (like freedom of speech and the freedom of assembly) apply to all persons, regardless of citizenship status.
Uh huh, but fundamental rights isn't what they were protesting about. And those weren't the rights I was referring to, and you know it. Besides, technically I don't think freedom of speech and the freedom of assembly are counted as fundamental rights, but I think we probably both agree that they should be so let's not debate about that.
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Illegal immigrants shouldn't have political clout.
Well, that's your opinion which you have the right to. Personally I a big fan of the Bill of Rights and the Fourteenth Amendment. The immigration protests have been far better organized and more effective than the recent anti-globalization protest. Also you take for granted that all members of the protest were "illegal immagrants," many were natural born and naturalized citizens who are concerned for the rights of others.
I didn't fail to see that not all of them were themselves illegal immigrants, but that doesn't change the fact that those people were amongst all the illegal immigrants protesting for their rights (and to be clear, I'm not talking about fundamental rights, just in case you want to use that as an 'argument'). Rights that they, being ILLEGAL immigrants, aren't entitled to.
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The people who marched are our neighbors, coworkers, friends and fellow Americans. They deserve respect.Quote:
That's a stupid comment. Especially the fellow American part. I'll say it again, THEY'RE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. They are NOT American. If they were American, they wouldn't be illegal immigrants (at least not while they're living in America).
Well, darlin', technically the contenents are North and South America, which would make them Americans. The colloquial use of the term is misleading since you're infact referring to US citzens.
I'm pretty sure I used the word 'American' in the same sense that you did. I find it hard to believe you used 'American' in the inter-continental sense, since nobody does that and it makes that part of your statement sort of trivial (you might as well have said 'our fellow human beings', less prone to misinterpretation).
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I'm sorry, did you have a point. I was simply writing about my impressions having participated in the marches. Once you come up with an articulated point beyond xenophobic rantings, I'll get back to you.
Hah! That's a joke. Where was I xenophobic? In my short response, I mentioned the word 'illegal' three times. I even wrote it in capitals! Doesn't that give you an impression of where my problem lies? I don't have a problem with immigrants, I have a problem with ILLEGAL immigrants. I emphasised that and yet you still decided to ignore that and took the easy way out by calling me a xenophobe. And yes, I did have a point, which you also decided to ignore because of some self-righteous, I'm-better-than-you-because-I-care-for-the-less-fortunate ego trip.
Now, like most people on here, I fully sympathise with the plight of illegal immigrants, I know they don't have easy lives and are essentially good people. However, that doesn't mean it's okay that they enter a country illegally and then demand to have the same rights and freedoms as the people of the country they entered. I don't see why that should be acceptable and why people that disagree with it being acceptable, such as myself, need to defend their positions.
Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.
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Freedom of speech is granted to illegal aliens - but ONLY during their trial by magistrate, as to why they should not be deported immediately. That's the ONLY free speech they have in USA. If they love Mexico so much to wave its flag, then they can go speak in Mexico.
Today, I spoke with a LEGAL alien who is now a US citizen, formerly from England, RAF MOD, now working a hi-tech job. I asked him about the topic of this thread, specifically about "anchor babies". He replied with a string of profanities, too numerous to remember, but they did cover the spectrum of the ENGLISH language.
He pointed out how absurd it is, from a legal point of view, for illegal aliens to have babies in USA, then those babies be considered US citizens, thus granting illegal aliens an exemption to arrest and deportation for their crimes. He pointed out the fact of law that when a foreign tourist has a baby in USA, that baby is NOT counted as a US citizen. So it is a lie for illegal aliens to claim their babies are US citizens. Good point.
When asked if he thought it was a good idea for 30-million illegal aliens to remain in USA with amnesty from Jr Bush, another string of profanities ensued. Of course it is extremely bad for USA to allow these crimes to go unpunished, to paraphrase his comments.
USA is an English speaking country, and he HATES when he's asked whether he wants to speak Spanish to do business in USA, such as for banking and customer service telephone robots, etc. He points out that they don't ask if he wants to speak German or Chinese, so it's very suspicious to only ask about Spanish/Mexican, indicating an AGENDA to overthrow USA via premeditated invasion. I pointed out that NAFTA officially merged USA with Mexico and Canada, making USA now part of the British Commonwealth and British Empire under the Queen. He hadn't thought of that, but wasn't thrilled by the idea, since he has no desire to live in UK under royal tyranny, with GATSO Robocop Spy Cams EVERYWHERE taxing drivers to death. He was not thrilled when I pointed out that a private military contractor in AUSTRAILIA now runs the Robocop Spy Cam Scam here in Knoxville Tennessee, keeping all the profits and replacing police, prosecutors and courts, contrary to the pathological lies spewed by the media mafia and city council, that it's an Arizona company from USA. REDflex does Robocops all over USA, and also does GPS taxation by the mile to turn all roads into toll roads...
www.redflex.com.au
Another thing I did today was legal research on a traffic citation defense, where I'm facing 30 days jail, for alleged driving 5mph. (FIVE mph! not a typo) 30 days jail is the statutory sentence for ALL traffic citations in Tennessee. Does that sound right to you? I audited the public court docket for tickets from this deputy, looking for fixed tickets (theft and extortion), illegal quotas (racketeering and organized crime), and witnesses to perjury from the deputy. One included an obvious illegal alien, no driver license, no address, cannot speak English so he got a govt interpreter. Not one mention in the record of DEPORTATION. Judge gave him time to find a place to live (a fake address), and extorted $500 as a bribe to let this CONVICTED CRIMINAL stay in USA, WITHOUT JAIL. Not a REAL hero to be found. Tennessee's Gangsta Govt has sold driver licenses to over 250,000 illegal aliens, so far, and provides its entire Driver License Handbook in Spanish. Does that sound right to you?
An arrest made by this cop was of a US citizen riding an ATV on the street (safely without causing a crash), for (w)reckless driving, evading arrest and resisting arrest. VERY profitable for court costs... But he can't arrest an illegal alien for criminal trespass?
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SHOCKING VIDEO DOWNLOAD: 'Atzlan' - The End Of America
http://prisonplanet.com/articles/april2006/040406Aztlan.htm
Immigration Watchdog
April 4 2006
It is imperative that each one of us call our Senators and members of Congress, every day. They are preparing an unlimited guest worker amnesty plan. 20 million ilNOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Phaedra, just to get past this anti- or pro-Hispanic thing: what would you say to 10 million illegal Rwandan immigrants?
No matter how I look at it, even if we wanted to gather up all the poor downtrodden of the world (even understanding that it was our fault for trodding on them in the first place) and bring them in with open arms, we couldn't. The history of massive immigration has been exploitation and ghettos, whether the immigrants were Jewish, Irish (and they were English-speaking!), Italian... or Mexican, Honduran, or Guatemalan. There is no way to bring in large numbers of immigrants w/o that result. And frankly, I'm not about to argue for people's right to be exploited, since that simply means that I'll be exploited too.
If we were to actively promote immigration, we would have to
a) change the laws to make them "legal" to work,
b) ensure that all immigres speak, read and write English so that they're not at a language disadvantage: You can't read a Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) or even "Hearing Protection Required" if you can't read English
c) understand their rights as workers.
Then there is the problem of valid driver's licenses and interaction with the law. How do you obtain a license if you can't read the Rule of the Road instruction booklet? Or, do we provide instruction booklets in every language under the sun? And when a cop says "Show me your driver's license and registration" how does an non-speaker know what to do? I know this sounds like farce, but there was an Indian (ie from India) looking for an intruder at night at his brother's business who was shot to death because he didn't understand "Throw down your weapon" and "Stop or I'll shoot".
So- how much money, time, and effort are you going to spend integrating ALL these immigrants? Or, how do you justify letting SOME (Hispanic, or maybe specifically Mexican- it's not quite clear to me which) immigrants slide and putting others (Romanian, Ugandan etc) thru the wringer?
What about Social Security? People are getting taxed for a system that they will probably never collect from.
What about welfare, health insurance, auto insurance, auto registration (do you have any idea how many uninsured, unregistered vehicles are rolling around LA?), education etc?
People who get all bleedy about poor Hispanics (and all huffy about the agreement to leave California, New Mexico and Arizona biligual- which it should be by international agreement) don't seem to realize where their agruments are taking them in a global sense.
So, pleasing neither side, it seems to me that there is a multi-pronged solution to the problem of illegal immigration:
1) Increase Border Patrols and Port Security to the point where it is actually effective. If that means build a wall, then build it.
2) Stop interfering in other nations' internal politics. Unlikely, but since we always seem to come down on the side of the oligarchs that might be a positive thing.
3) Raise our Federal minimum wage. It's counterinutitive- you would think that a higher minimum wage would increase the "draw" into this country- but companies are simply not going to pay a non-English speaking person $9/ hour. And enforce it. If you find a company that violates the minimum wage law, drive them out of business with fines, put their (corporate) head on a pike by the city gates. The other will get the message.
4) Promote real international unionization. US dollars in a Haitian strike fund would go a LONG way in Haiti.
5) Take the current immigrees (Indian, Russian, Phillipine, Chinese) and give them English literacy tests and English classes. If they don't learn to speak the language at a rudimentary level in six months, boot them out.
BTW- My spouse, dad, and my mother's grandparents were all immigrees. They all learned to speak English. Si se puede.
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Free as in freedom, not beer.
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I'm not going to weigh in on this topic since it is *very* much a hot button topic for me, and I don't like to get quite that worked up, but I did see this, SignyM:
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Originally posted by SignyM:
So, pleasing neither side, it seems to me that there is a multi-pronged solution to the problem of illegal immigration:
[...]
2) Stop interfering in other nations' internal politics. Unlikely, but since we always seem to come down on the side of the oligarchs that might be a positive thing.
[...]
4) Promote real international unionization. US dollars in a Haitian strike fund would go a LONG way in Haiti.
Just as a point of procedure, doesn't implementing (4) violate the principle of (2)?
Amiton.
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No. The first is a military process, the second is an economic one. Maybe what I should have said was: We should stop interfering militarily in other nations. That includes eliminating both overt invasion (which we've done time and time again), military assistance, and covert destabilization.
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Free as in freedom, not beer.
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Quote:*In his best Zoe voice* What? And give up our planet?
Originally posted by SignyM:
Maybe what I should have said was: We should stop interfering militarily in other nations. That includes eliminating both overt invasion (which we've done time and time again), military assistance, and covert destabilization.
Chrisisall
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Originally posted by citizen:Quote:
Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
Do you by any chance mean East Anglia, the part of England made up of the counties of Norfolk, Suffolk and Essex?
Get an Atlas Redneck.
I'nt East Anglia somewhere in Europe?
CitizenIsJade...
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore am no beast.
East Anglia in Europe?
Not if I can help it...BACK OFF BRUSSELS!!!
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