Illegal immigration

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Originally posted by Phaedra:
For me the marches represent what democracy should look and sound like. A group of people (citizen or not) mobilizing peacefully for their rights.

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ILLEGAL immigrants have rights?

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Regardless of how one may feel about immigration, 500,000 marchers at one time sends a powerful message.

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In this case, that's a bad thing. Illegal immigrants shouldn't have political clout.

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The people who marched are our neighbors, coworkers, friends and fellow Americans. They deserve respect.

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That's a stupid comment. Especially the fellow American part. I'll say it again, THEY'RE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. They are NOT American. If they were American, they wouldn't be illegal immigrants (at least not while they're living in America).

It's a shame that some people are so self-righteous when it comes to these sort of issues that they totally miss the point.

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Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.

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Ain't it sweet that drug dealers, slave traders, rapists, armed robbers, serial killers and common criminals can petition OUR govt for BILLIONS of taxdollars in free welfare handouts, at OUR expense, while taking OUR jobs, and opening our nation to terrorist attack? Or if you want to be extra charitable, just call them "American" traitors. Or illegal American traitors.

Most of the employers of illegal aliens are organized crime, no matter what size of their company. Many, if not most, illegals are mules carrying drugs, and the "jobs" in USA are just a cover story for importing drugs like meth, heroin and cocaine. Legalize all drugs by killing Prohibition, and most of the illegal aliens would stay home in Mexico, where they don't have to work very hard. But then the Bush Crime Family would have to get real jobs too, which ain't likely.

The worst part about criminal aliens and NAFTA is that wages in USA will drop to Third World wages, if you're lucky enough to find a job, after most of the jobs are exported. Won't that be special?

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Originally posted by citizen:
Erm, PN's message is that the omnipotent British Queen, head of the British-Commie-Nazi-Jews, who are responcible for everything that has ever happened in the world, ever, are enslaving the people with the power of British-Commie-Nazi-Jew Flouride Telepathy.

Ignoring for a moment that most of his facts are misconceptions and misunderstandings firmly grounded in a complete lack of understanding of Physics, socio-polotics, History and a myriad of other things the fact that he thinks British-Commie-Nazi-Jews did it (not to mention the fact that he spews rhetoric straight out of the 'Big Book of Nazi Propeganda') is enough for me to dismiss his message.

I've ripped his posts and his facts apart before now, his reply is "You would say that! You're one of them, bah hiss!". I'm not one of them, they don't exist.

The level of delusion that sees a man who can barely tie his own shoe laces as the head of a global conspiracy so intricate, complex and well hidden from the popular view such as the BCNJ is staggering.

I don't care who runs that global over arching conspiracy which you (I use the term generally) are the only one capable of uncovering, whether it's Aliens, British-Commie-Nazi-Jews, School children or the Underpants nomes, you're still a nut. Lets be honest here, if there was any truth in what he says the BCNJ would of off'ed him sometime ago, a couple of dogs, a Shotgun and a security light are hardly going to stop a group that's manipulated the entire Human race since the beginning of time.

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actually I haven't seen anyone rip PN's facts apart including you. What I have seen is people have diffrent opinions from his own, an diffrent theories, but I've never seen anyone come up with any concrete facts that have disproved anything that he'said.

I'm not saying he's right about everything, or that his opinion is more valid then anyone elses, nor am I saying that anyone should take his opinion theories or information at face value, all I'm saying is that I think its a cop-out and its just to easy to call him a nut case...Why? just because you don't believe what he's saying, I mean you may very well be right maybe he is as you say or not, but even if that is the case does that make the information wrong?

and if its his opinions you that you don't like, for example the British Queen Commie or whatever, thats an opinion that can be easily dismissed. Seperating the wheat from the chafe shouldn't be to hard!! if your inclined to do so

Forget about PN the poster for a minute and concentrate on the information, even if its not all right its certainly not all wrong.

and I don't think PN thinks Bush is head of a global conspiracy, I think I've indulged in enough of his post to know that, a puppet Yes, but head I don't think anyone thinks that!!lol, His family is defintely a part of the elite global society..and could it be that maybe you assume to much?., maybe thats why its just so easy to dismiss PN as what do you call it ..A Nut CASE...just some food for thought

PJ

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Originally posted by Righteous9:
Hey Piratejenny,

Yeah, diebold and the like are a big issue.

I basically agree with you. A revolution is what they need. I'm not sure I put the blame on the people at this point, for not rising up. I take the basic premise that people are people, meaning that, if these people have reacted differently in this situation than others have in a different situation, the overall circumstances must be different, even if that circumstance is mindset alone.

And I can't really see it being too heartening, to actually have a revolution(they did revolt against their oppressive government) only to have their chosen leader undermined not only by the people's enemies, but by the United States(if I were to distinguish the two). That's the sort of result that feeds apathy, and teaches helplessness, and quite frankly its the far more common result of a revolution...replace one bad regime with another. I wasn't saying the U.S. was unique for revolting...I was saying it was rare for succeeding in making something better.

The only other thing is I really don't remember a day of our revolution. I can't really claim that "WE" overthrew the British and "WE" earned our freedoms. I didn't earn them any more than the bussers at the restaurant I work at did. Would I fight for such a thing if I were put in the situation? I'd like to think I would, but I don't know.

Aside of those quibbles, I agree with you. In fact, after reading a post of yours before the one you posted to me, I was wondering why I was engaging in this long debate, because in the context of that post, my post didn't seem as well founded. But I never read that one, and just saw a post that, while not wrong in any way, seemed to frame this particular issue by chastising the people who don't have the power(or at least haven't realized the power), rather than the ones who have it and are abusing it. My appologies, if I misinterpreted.

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you don't have to apolojise to me for having an opinion and voicing it. I love a good discussion I just think its to easy for us to get stuck in the now..and not look ahead..many people can't look ahead or never think to, because they are to wrapped up in the present. And I can't fault a person of good fortune to feel some compassion, but the facts are the very conditions that illegal immigrants are running away from in their own countries, is the very condition that they are helping to create here.

When the U.S.A becomes a third world nation which it is in the beginning stages now, Where are they going to run to? where are we going to run to?

What many people are failing to realize is that the global elite who run this country and others countries, through old money, royalty,business and poltics, What they want to happen and are working to make happen is third world conditions, where there are only to classes the rich, and the poor and nothing inbetween, where the rich have all the power and the poor have none.

even now as I write this, its almost funny, because to the Power elite, their are no such things as borders, or even nations..its all about them.

Nothing is going to be done about the illegal immigrants coming into this country by the thousands, we all know what the solution to the problem is, but these globalist want this they want choas, they want, discord, they want fear, they want hate, they want to keep people fighting, and working and surviving, because people are easy to control that way, none of this is by chance, its been planned.

I just think as Americans we all need to see this and we all need to band together on this.


PirateNews WROTE:

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The worst part about criminal aliens and NAFTA is that wages in USA will drop to Third World wages, if you're lucky enough to find a job, after most of the jobs are exported. Won't that be special?

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Illegal immigration is something which should not be about party politics. In the end it's about money and people (as was said way above).

Now I've read the entire thread (even PirateNews's ramblings) before saying this.

Illegal aliens are not Americans. Nomatter how much you might like any person "who happen to be illegal," they have most certainly broken several at-least misdemeanor violations of the law and in general do not pay for most of their crimes.

As an analogy, let me introduce the movie Traffic. Yes, if you see it, Traffic might open your eyes a little to what is really going on, and it has everything to do with money and people. Basically... greed.

There are so many people in the world who have not and desire to become Americans... the haves. Estimates are at 11 Million and growing of people who are "jumping the turnstiles" to do things illegally, which in the end allows them to pocket more money. Just for instance at just the monetary effects:

1. Employers (especially small businesses!) are FORCED to hire illegals at cut rates to stay competitive or otherwise they'll go out of business. To enforce this Senate policy will simply drive out small business! (I hear stories about it every day)

2. Insurance rates are going UP because of illegals who can't read road signs/can't drive and get into accidents, and also because many illegals don't have to pay insurance.

3. More people means more consumption of goods, as it was said water supplies in SouthWest towns are getting low... and that's the tip of the iceberg.

4. Many Illegal alien children are being allowed slots in public schools without paying for it... therefore either driving the other parents' costs up or the entire town's property taxes up.

5. Loopholes in the Welfare system have allowed Illegals to be living "off the arm" once they get here. And if you're living off the government... why would you leave?

6. More money now has to be spent in schools and in public areas to make bilingual signs, receipts, etc... so those illegals who can't read English perhaps may not screw up and run over people in sidewalks (which does happen too).

7. Not to mention the amount of crime which has sprung up in the sections of this country full of illegal immigrants. In fact, I've heard several cases now of Illegals who are now convicted US felons being denied deportation because the country doesn't want them anymore!

Eh that's just for starters, there have been other examples made too.

One problem is globalization and capitalism not being held in check. I say globalization because it's global companies who are recruiting people to America through many means (not all legal) and they are the ones hiring the many workers from overseas. I say capitalism because to me, our system of capitalism runs off greed, and greed pushes this whole debate.

Another problem is the differences in State laws. While that Lawyer from Ohio may have strict sentencing for lawbreaking illegals there, here in Massachusetts they actually brought to discussion in the State Senate a bill which would grant Illegal Aliens the ability to get scholarships for college!!! Just one example of many here in the Ted Kennedy state. Speaking of...

Illegal Immigration is the primary issue of one Senator Edward Kennedy (D - MA). He instituted the bill in 1965 to create the laws we have now on the books and disregarded the older law which made things really strict for illegal immigrants. He is the main senator in the senate fighting for these illegal immigrants to get their money, and he was part draftee of this bill too!

My point is, there is a few things to be done - if you're against illegal aliens taking paying (not just low-paying either) jobs away from our working class, do this:

VOTE OUT the Congresspeople who approve these bills! I know my vote is going directly against one Senator Ed (Ted) Kennedy.

JOIN groups like the Minutemen and show how many people dislike Illegal immigration AND illegal immigrants!

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Originally posted by PirateJenny:
actually I haven't seen anyone rip PN's facts apart including you. What I have seen is people have diffrent opinions from his own, an diffrent theories, but I've never seen anyone come up with any concrete facts that have disproved anything that he'said.

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You haven't huh. Scroll up.

Look at the last thread where he was using a 30 year old picture of a soldier in Ireland to prove that Northern Ireland is currently under martial law.

Most of his facts are choc full of complete and utter nonsense which steadly loses him more credibillity the more he posts. Mixing up MI5 and MI6 is akin to not knowing the difference between the FBI and the CIA and should be the first stop for an conspiracy theory involving the omnipresent British government, as should the fact that the British Queen is merely a figurehead, she has no power. But these little facts get in the way of PN's fantasy, so wheell ya know what, lets just ignore 'em.

Thing is the truth and facts aren't all that great for PN, get in the way of the delusion which lets him put himself in the position of true all American hero fighting the hordes of darkness.

So what he does is cherry picks facts, spins in his direction and simply leaves out anything that doesn't fit. This is a far more insidious process than that which is performed by politicians, since they know they're doing it, PN doesn't.

That having been said I am no fan of spin, whether it's used to twist facts to make Iraq a world super power harbour WMDs and preparing to nuke the US, or if it's used to prove the existence of British-Commie-Nazi-Jews.

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I mean you may very well be right maybe he is as you say or not, but even if that is the case does that make the information wrong?

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No, it makes it propaganda and since I already know most of what he's going on about in the un-British-Commie-Nazi-Jew-ified form it interests me, erm, not at all. You see PN doesn't have a divine link to knowledge, we can all see what he sees. The telling thing is that most of us don't see it as proof of British-Commie-Nazi-Jews living under our beds.

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and I don't think PN thinks Bush is head of a global conspiracy, I think I've indulged in enough of his post to know that, a puppet Yes, but head I don't think anyone thinks that!!lol, His family is defintely a part of the elite global society..and could it be that maybe you assume to much?., maybe thats why its just so easy to dismiss PN as what do you call it ..A Nut CASE...just some food for thought

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The reason I call him a nut case is because he has come out and said the world is run by British-Commie-Nazi-Jews. It's not.

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When the U.S.A becomes a third world nation which it is in the beginning stages now, Where are they going to run to? where are we going to run to?

What many people are failing to realize is that the global elite who run this country and others countries, through old money, royalty,business and poltics, What they want to happen and are working to make happen is third world conditions, where there are only to classes the rich, and the poor and nothing inbetween, where the rich have all the power and the poor have none.

even now as I write this, its almost funny, because to the Power elite, their are no such things as borders, or even nations..its all about them.

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It's called successful capitalism. It's what happens, it's how it's supposed to work.

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More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore am no beast.

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Well,

Other than detailing that Bannannas and Granite pose the same level of health threat, and pointing out that an actual tac nuke is better than a cargo-container sized bomb for faking a terrorist attack...

It's hard to argue with PirateNews. Each paragraph he posts contains a dozen different refutable facts, and trying to get him to argue just ONE gleans an unfocused response with dozens of additional refutable facts. It's quite frustrating.

I mean, I'd ask him why he thinks Winston Churchill is Jewish, but I fear that instead of detailing his argument in step by step logical methodology, he will shotgun me again. Focus isn't News's strongpoint.

It's also not helpful when he just insults his opponents by calling them Nazi-Jews. I mean, that's not an argument. It's an insult used when you don't have an argument.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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O.K. I'm joining this late and much as I have tried to resist I've just got to say it:

East Angliashire? Where the Fuck is that supposed to be?

Do you by any chance mean East Anglia, the part of England made up of the counties of Norfolk, Suffolk and Essex?

Get an Atlas Redneck.

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Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
Do you by any chance mean East Anglia, the part of England made up of the counties of Norfolk, Suffolk and Essex?

Get an Atlas Redneck.

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I'nt East Anglia somewhere in Europe?

CitizenIsJade...

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More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore am no beast.

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