What are your thoughts on god?
POSTED BY: christhecynic
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 29, 2024 07:06
VIEWED: 44171
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I believe God is an entity who created man and the universe. I believe that I can understand his reasoning for this very clearly, because it is something he built into humans. Humans want things to hang with other then just humans, well a lot do, not all humans do. We want cats and dogs. Some people would say that we jsut want cute cuddly things to make us feel better, but dolls would do that, and I don't like dolls.
So why do humans like cats and dogs? For one thing because we can not compleatly control them. They have minds of their own, and they, especially cats, don't always do what we want them to. Humans are like that to God. I don't think personally that thats a bad thing.
If God exist why do bad things happen? If People exist why do bad things happen to animals? Even if as a cat owner I want to be with my cat, and keep him from getting scratches or scrapes, I can't be. I could lock him in the house, take away the wildness that I love in him, reduce him to being a pet, but even that wouldn't save him. Why? Because he has free will, and to put it frankly being perfectly safe all the time is boring. He wants to climb things, he wants to attack things. Someday he will climb the wrong thing, or attack the wrong thing, and all I'll be able to do is hope that he comes home. We are the same with God. Humans that did everything God wanted would be boring. For that reason I do not believe that God would send us to hell for disobeying him on small desgrees.
So why is there hell at all? Why not just heaven? Because sometimes pets turn bad. If a Dog goes wild and kills three little kids, you don't just forgive the dog and tell him not to do it again. You put him down because he has become a danger to the rest of the humans. In the same way humans can become dangers, not to God, but each other. Hitler did something that was unforgivable. I think that hell is for people who do that, go wild. Are no longer safe for other humans to live with. People who would kill other humans, not for any reason like self defence, or to save someone they love, but humans that would kill for something else. Even humans that would kill for a better world. This is not to say all killing is bad, it is to say the only reason there is a need for it, is because some humans go wild. God still loves them, as the owner of the dog still loves the dog, but he can not let the dog live. God still loves the people who torn evil, but he can no longer allowe them to be in heaven with those who did not go wild.
So are you saying you don't believe in Jesus? No. I believe in Jesus. If your cat gets hit by a car, you can't just pick him up and tell him to be well. You take him to the vet, and if the vet can save him, they do. In the same way if someone falls from God he can't just say come back. He needs someone to bring you back, someone who isn't spiritualy injuried. That is what Jesus is for. Its not the best show'll of what I mean, but its hard to put into words what I do mean. Thats my view on realigion anyway, I know its long, I didn't mean for it to be, but it is. sorry. :P
If you play Nationstates.net check out the region Firefly.
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The question of God is completely irrelevent to me. My moral compass would remain intact whether there was a god(s) or not. My appreciation for the world would likewise not abate, if not be enhanced in the absence of transcendance.
I think the most profound words I ever heard on the meaning of things went something like this; "If nothing we do has any meaning, then the only things that have meaning are the things that we do." Was it Joss Whedon who came up with that? Well what do you know....
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im sure this view has probably already been stated, but im not about to read through that whole thread to find exactly whats been said and what hasnt, so i'll just give my two cents and keep it short.
i believe that most of the teachings of most major religions are good, and should be more or less followed. beyond that, i'm basicly agnostic; i'm certainly open to the possability, and on some levels it sure seems to make a whole lot of sense, but i'm also the kind of person who needs hard evadence, i'm not one for abstract thinking, im no good at it. so if i were confronted with some sort of irrefutable proof, i think i would believe in a god rather then that i was insaine or some such, but i would need that proof rather then the ideas of others. I tend to think that most holy books (bible, torah, que'ran etc) are so very old that whatever "proof" such as it was that they may originally ahve been based on, has since given way to whatever the religious leaders needed at any given time. imo, that would be why the bible is so very contradictory. one last point, i also tend to think that if god is as gentle and kind and forginving and all that as (s)he is often made out to be, WHY on earth does this being care weather or not we recognize/worship him? just doesnt make sense to me.
as for the whole heaven/hell thing, i have no ruttin clue.
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Quote:I think ChrisTC did a pretty good job of elucidating my opinion, but I’ll elaborate. We aren’t likely to agree on this, but that is not unusual, because I don’t agree with many religious opinions, about one thing or another. Diversity of thought is really far more common among religious people then many give them credit.
Originally posted by Payne:
Please don't take this the wrong way, but the reason we won't accept that is because it isn't true. Your lack of belief in leprechauns is just that: a lack of belief, not a religious opinion. You don't need to pretend you know everything about the world and the universe in order to go on the working assumption that leprechauns don't exist. Such an assumption is not religious, it's something we all believe in everyday life because we've never seen anything that might lead us to believe that leprechauns are real.
I am, of course, not putting belief in God on the level of belief in leprechauns. That would be offensive and inaccurate. I'm trying to draw an analogy that will help explain actual atheism. One of the most famous atheist quotes (paraphrased) says that we are all atheists with regard to most gods ever worshipped by man. Actual atheists simply refuse to make an exception for the God of the Bible, or for the gods of Hinduism, etc., etc.
Your entire argument is based on the way you have defined atheism. You first assume that I don’t believe in Leprechauns and that not believing in Leprechauns means they don’t exist; and therefore not believing in Leprechauns is not a religious position. You’ve made quite a few assumptions there. You’ve rationalized the way you define religion to conveniently eliminate anyone who doesn’t believe in Leprechauns or indeed, god, based upon the assumption that not having seen what you would call a Leprechaun means they don’t exist. That’s called hand waving and throwing around definitions.
But that’s not just limited to atheists, theists do it as well. In fact, most religions do it to some extent. Essentially, what you’re doing is claiming, without proof, that atheism is the normal or baseline, and then asserting that everything else deviates from it. The problem is that atheism is no more provable then theism. You can no more assert that god exists then that god doesn’t exist, but by establishing atheism as an axiom or fundamental assumption, you are alleviated from that justification. This is exactly the way most religions work. Most Christians have defined Jesus as the fundamental assumption; therefore everything else deviates from that. But a responsible mind must understand that this is a definition.
The difference between many theist and many atheists is that most theists, including most Christians, don’t deny their fundamental assumptions. They accept and even rejoice in taking these things on faith. Many atheists, who have no more bases for their beliefs then any other religion, deny that their position is faith-based. They take what they claim is a rational argument, that not having actually seen what they define as a Leprechaun means Leprechauns don’t exist. The problem is that rationally, that’s nonsense. First of all, Leprechaun could mean just about anything when it is separated from its religious context. It all depends on your definition. And I generally don’t consider myself to believe in Leprechauns, but how could you have known that? For many centuries, Irish pagans did, in fact, believe in Leprechauns as a function of the Irish Pagan religion. Denying that Leprechauns exist may be a religious assertion, because depending on how they are defined, they might be as difficult to assert or deny as god. So belief in Leprechauns can be faith-based and religious, just as denying the existence of Leprechauns can be faith-based and religious.
I’m not trying to ridicule atheists or claim that theists are better. I simply don’t see any tangible difference between them. They both assert, based on faith, a belief in something. Strictly speaking, the a
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(Quote)WHY on earth does this being care weather or not we recognize/worship him? just doesnt make sense to me.as for the whole heaven/hell thing, i have no ruttin clue.(end Quote)
Why do most Humans care if their cats spend time with them? Or if they get respect for good work they did? Why are they not happy just knowing that they did a good job without wanting praise? The answer is that God made us, and thus he wants praise for making us, and he also wants us, the things he worked to make, to spend time with him.
Why heaven and hell? Because sometimes people do things that force them to have to be seperated from the rest of mankind. If a charished pet kills a neibors kid, you don't just apologize and say you'll force it never to do so again. The pet has forced itself to be taken away from where it is a danger, ie life, and put somewhere where it can no longer do harm. The same goes for people. If someone does things that majorly hurt other people then they must be seperated from those people. And here I'm meaning spiritually, not physically.
If you play Nationstates.net check out the region Firefly.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bowie:
If God exist why do bad things happen? (snip)
So why is there hell at all?
God created a perfect world where bad things didn't happen -- and would not have happened, if the people He made obeyed Him. Man didn't obey Him, so man and the whole of creation was put under a curse (which is why bad things happen, things decay, people get sick, injured, harmed, abused, etc.).
Could God have overlooked the willful rebellion (sin) against Him? Yes. But, if He did, He would not have been God. God is Holy. His holiness demands punishment for sin -- death (in the natural body, and eventually in eternal separation from Him).
Fortunately, God is also loving. And, in His love, graciously provided a means to escape our just punishment for those willing to receive it -- the sacrifice of One who fully kept His laws, and willingly took the place of those who would accept Him and receive the free gift of His salvation. (see my previous post with the "ocean-jumping" analogy)
So, instead of asking ourselves why bad things happen to us, we should be asking why anything good ever happens to us. Under the curse, we deserve nothing good. It's only because of God's grace that things aren't much much worse.
I agree that the concept of perfect holiness is difficult to contemplate -- particularly as we (as fallen, sinful humans) have much more in common with the worst of humanity than we do with a perfect God. That's why you or I might be more understanding with a disobedient cat, because you and I have more in common with that cat (or that cat's vomit) than we do with our perfect and holy Creator.
We can't conceive being perfect and having something we created from nothingness willfully telling us they know better than we do (which is what every sin is -- chosing OUR way over God's way -- saying to God, "You don't know what You're talking about. We know what's best for us, and this is what we want to do, even though it opposes what You said we should do.")
It's not an answer easily accepted, but (according to the scripture) it's why we're in the mess we're in. And you don't have to be too long of this earth to see that we're a rather dismal lot, and much deserving of our troubles.
The best of us (which certainly isn't me) are like filthy rags next to our holy God. That's why we have problems in this life -- (which, by the grace of God, we can escape in the next if we accept His way and stop demanding our own).
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I believe in God and i also believe God uses evolution. Now with that out of the way...
I believe in God but I have totally lost faith in God to do the right thing. In order for God's will to happen...million/billions of innocent, human beings get sacrificed on the alter of just being in the way everyday.
In Firefly, I totally agree with Mal's take on God. God always lets people down. God fights for the "other side" God always lets evil win. God flies the flag of your enemies. God always gives power to your enemies.
God is a train that is no longer worth waiting for. God rewards the wicked. God rewards the cruel and evil.
My point of view regarding God is not open for argument, so don't even waste your time.
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its funny how, when you cut out the answer I gave you make it seem like I'm asking the question. I put a answer, so if you wanted to put your own answer, why not jsut have done so? Personally I think my answer makes more sence. I do not believe god made us perfect because perfect things are boring things. Things with small faults that are able to overcome their faults are far more intresting. Who cares if a great athelete who has never had any problems of any kind wins a metel? But what if that athelete had problems, like a bad nee, or another kind of disability, and was able to overcome that? Then the story is intresting. Just because my view of why there are bad things doesn't sound like I just copied a page out of the bible doesn't make it wrong. The bible is there to tell us how to avoid hell, to tell us the good and bad things other people have done, the things that god disaproved of and aproved of, its not there to tell us to memorize and site like we didn't know real languedge out side of it.
If you play Nationstates.net check out the region Firefly.
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Sorry, Bowie. I didn't snip your answer in an attempt to make it seem like you were asking a question. I thought you were asking a question, and attempted to answer. My apologies.
BTW, I'm not sure what the protocol is regarding lengthy threads, but I have dial-up, and these long threads take forever to load.
Is it possible for the person who started a thread which takes off and seemingly goes on forever to, at some point (perhaps at 50 posts) start a new thread and call it "What are your thoughts on god? PART 2" ???
It would be a big help to poor saps like myself who don't have cable internet connections.
Thanks.
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Thats the sadest thing ever I heard ...
I was gonna post a response to it but if you say there is no point then I wont...
Saying that God authored confusion by creating Lucifer is like saying my sniper rifle goes out all by itself and shoots people 2 miles away so I dont get into trouble.
Ridin the Ocean's boring when there aint no waves
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