What are your thoughts on god?

POSTED BY: christhecynic
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 29, 2024 07:06
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CHRISTHECYNIC

Sunday, January 15, 2006 3:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RocketJock:
"The Torah... the gospels... the Koran... Each claimed as the infallible word of God. Misquoted, misinterpreted, misunderstood, and misapplied. Maybe that's why he doesn't do any more interviews." -- Tatsuya Ishida

Great quote.

PAYNE

Sunday, January 15, 2006 5:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
I wish you had said you were a soft atheist before; it would have cleared things up significantly. Your stating you are not agnostic seemed to imply hard atheism.

Belief in a lack of god is religious; lack of belief in god is not. Agnosticism and soft atheism (which I don’t choose to differentiate between unless forced) are not religious because they are of the second mindset.

I apologize for not stating that up front. I suppose I've gotten too used to discussing this with people who assume that atheists are soft atheists unless stated otherwise.

Quote:
I mean it is so simple, if you have a set of beliefs, that set could be a set of one, based on faith about god it is religious. The belief that there is no god is by far the most comprehensive set of all, it covers every variation, every situation, it has universal application that no other religion dares to dream of, all of this in a set of one.

On the other hand a soft atheist, unless I fail to understand the term, does not have any beliefs, based on faith or anything else, about god. Thus that is not religious.

To any onlooker here the distinction is important, on god there are three groups of believers:

People who believe in god (or gods.)
People who do not believe.
People who believe there is no god.

A lot of people lump the second and third together because neither believes there is a god, but that is just as faulty as grouping the first two together on the grounds that neither believes there is no god.

Agreed 100%. In my own experience, I've found that the third group are a small but extremely vocal contingent, and seem to have an awful lot emotionally invested in letting people know they're wrong. Sort of like preachy atheists.

Quote:
The first and third groups are characterized by belief. More than that they are positions of belief without proof; blind faith in point of fact. Because they are about blind faith with respect to god (and not say leprechauns or people named Isabel) they are religious.

The middle group does not believe things on blind faith with respect to god so they are not religious.

Sorry for making you waste so many words on a misunderstanding. The reason I brought up an objection to the post I originally quoted was that it referred to atheism as if it was all hard atheism. You're right, the distinction is important, and messing up its explanation leads to trouble, as I've amply demonstrated.

TANSTAAFL28

Sunday, January 15, 2006 6:44 AM

Science is an open system of inquiry

Religion is a closed system of philosophy

Religious/Spiritual beliefs should be a personal thing, but in far too many ways, it's become too public. Western Religion has infiltrated politics in a way that makes it dangerous.

When people of faith become impassioned to make actions or statements of political import, they begin to lose touch with where their beliefs end and their politics begin. This spawns fanatics willing to kill, and die, for their beliefs.

I support freedom of religion, but I also believe we must have freedom from religion as well.

"You can't take the sky from me..."

THATWEIRDGIRL

Sunday, January 15, 2006 7:39 AM

*checks location, nope, not RWD, weird* I should stay out of this. Alas, I cannot! Somebody turn off my computer...please....

gorram.

I believe in God. I believe in science. I don’t think one precludes the other. I've done a lot of theological study and have my own understanding about the universe, soul and God. In short, I'm a Catholic with Pagan veins.

Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
To make it short, yes, I believe in God -- the God of the Bible.

Which God of the Bible? There are two distinct God personalities in the Bible: the vengeful all-powerful and the loving father.

www.thatweirdgirl.com
---
"...turn right at the corner then skip two blocks...no, SKIP, the hopping-like thing kids do...Why? Why not?"

MATTIE

Sunday, January 15, 2006 7:59 AM

Wow, what a rousing question. This is right up my alley, though.
First off, I was raised LDS--that means that I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints. In colloquial terms/situations, most people refer to members of my relitgion as "Mormons"--in reference to the scripture we have called the Book of Mormon. Just a little side note so that if I come off sounding...what?...a little gung-ho(?) you know why.
I believe in God. It's as pure and simple as that. I look at my surroundings and marvel at how people can dismiss the idea that some divine person did not create this world, this universe, this home that we all share. The other night I saw the most beautiful sunset that I had ever seen in my life. Now, people can explain that with science, but I look at it and say that it isn't just chance. It's not just particles in the air reflecting the sun's light a certain and special way that creates such an amazing effect. And if you explain the phenomenon of the sunset I saw using examples and explanations from science, then it is my turn to ask a philisophical question and say this: who invented those particles? Where did they come from? You can't create something out of nothing. Even if the big bang theory is true--and I have a cool picture of God swaying his hand through the air and the particles in space arranging themselves--then SOMETHING had to catalyze that. Why not God?
I believe that God created all things--even the body which my soul inhabits. I believe that I am here for a divine purpose, that God sent me to this Earth for a reason. I believe in a heaven where I can live with God and all of his other beloved creations, and I believe that it is my goal here on Earth to overcome secularity in order to prepare myself spiritually for the day that I die so that I CAN return and live with my Creator.
I know that I have free will. However, I don't think that it's FREE. God is just and will judge mankind according to his actions, thoughts and feelings. Humankind had agency--the ability to make choices--but I believe that it came at a drastic price. The price I'm referring to is the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Because Jesus died for the sins of the world, because he transcended below ALL things, mankind is able to repent--allowing an atonement for sins and allowing God to be merciful.
There is a hell. I would define it as a complete disconnection between the inevitable tie that humankind's spirit has with God's spirit. This hell can be experienced here on Earth and it comes when a person completely and totally denies God from their lives. I believe that a description of this hell would be a lack of joy in one's life. Now, atheists, don't crawl up my butt for saying that. This is what I believe. I'm not saying that everyone has to believe it too. And, I'm not saying that people who don't believe in God are bad people. That simply isn't true. If you aren't clear on that, ask me to explain myself better and I happily will, just don't tear me down on the thread.
Here's the deal. God:yes. Heaven:yes. Agency:yes.
My beliefs may be somewhat drastic to some. Others may think that I'm completely off my rocker. Maybe someone will read this and take confidence in what I have to say. It's possible that people will resent what I wrote. This is it, though. I believe in God, pure and simple. If you don't, or if you're not sure you do, that's cool. A question was asked and I answered because I feel strongly about what I believe and why.

BROWNFIELDCOAT

Sunday, January 15, 2006 10:15 AM

yo-yo

That's how my belief in God flows. In an evening, I can debate myself from believing that God is the Universe in all its entirety and infinity (both time and space) to thinking that maybe God is space-faring, greatly advanced humans from an earlier period of Earth's history (or maybe even [Acchhhkk! maybe too much science fiction in the blood!] future time travellers trying to affect the past), and back again.

There have been many good points on this thread, and some weak, too. It really all boils down to faith. We're nearing the end of the Age of Pisces (hence one of the symbols of the Christ being a fish [fisher of man]). 2012 marks the end of the Mayan calender - the Age of the Angry Sun. Or will the Dragon return. Or will Planet X come crashing into this third rock from the sun on its regular cycle that ancient astrologers and mathematicians predicted; but our own interpreters just didn't get the language to understand that it all really has happened before. Too much time has passed since then, and the Tower of Babel confounded us all. Who knows? Heh, well, God does, I suppose.

Religious-wise: I think that Christianity is a tangent. Believe it or not, Jesus was born a Jew, not a Christian. He may be the Way and the Light, but He certainly did not tell us to bow down before a cross or statue of Mary to pray. (Monty Python's take on what happened with worshippers of Christ (Brian, as the case may be, "His shoe!", etc.), fits what seems to have happened.) Considering that I, and most who spent their early years going to church with the parents, have been taught Christianity based on only four out of twelve personal points of view (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John), His vision and views have been extremely narrowed by some group of people who thought they knew best what it was that Jesus meant (even if it was four centuries later). I really tend to believe that what the Christ was trying to do, and what actually happened, are so far apart now that there is no possible repair. I, nor anyone else now, can really say what it is He was trying to do; but, something just doesn't seem right.

Logically: I have to use the Greatest Possible Being argument. Think of the Greatest Possible Being. If you can image it, it must be able to exist, because how and why could something not exist that is within the scope of the mind to imagine? One certainly cannot disprove the existence of such, anymore than can it be concretely proven. Of course, the same argument is used for the Greatest Possible Island. I can't remember whose argument this was - Aquinas? I actually failed Philosophy of Religion -- twice; but, passed Logic with a perfect grade. Oh well.

Historically: Read "Fingerprints of the Gods". It's pretty eye opening to an extent. Again, faith. You can either take what we have been taught by our history books as pure fact; or, merely the extremely rough biased interpretations of men and women with too many letters after their names: B(ull)S(**t), M(ore)S(**t), and Piled Higher and Deeper.

There were so many points and opinions that I could comment on. There is just no space or time to do so. I have gone through so many of my own phases and torments that I would bash none, but question many.

I was sorry to see Shepherd Book go. So many unanswered questions; and a loss of direct influence on the conscience of Serenity's crew. Maybe now that a major secret is out of River's brain pan, Serenity won't need the order of a secretive shepherd to balance the choas of an insane psychic.

See you all in time and relative dimensions in space

BACKFIELD22

Sunday, January 15, 2006 11:12 AM

i bet you think about god in your own way.

i bet you consider the greater good whenever you do things.

to my mind that's the same thing.

i entertain the idea of a 'god'. i definitely believe in the interconnectedness of all things. but i pretty much despise organised religion.

GENNIE

Sunday, January 15, 2006 12:03 PM

I will try not to be long-winded, as you can see, most people are when talking "God".
I am an agnostic by nature, but I fear I am grasping for straws in the dark. I want to think there is a "All Powerful Being", but I feel that we think that way so we will not fear death. Most people cannot concieve the thought of when you die, that is it. Done. No More. The Big Nothing.
I do not buy the whole Hell thing, so I suppose I do not believe in Heaven.
I believe that our end will be what we make of it. Hey, if I am wrong....well, I will have company.

NUCLEARDAY

Sunday, January 15, 2006 12:57 PM

Just felt like throwing my two cents in here:

As I'm still in my 20's I feel there's plenty of time for me to come up with THE answer, so for now I'm more interested in the philosophy and ideas, I guess you could say I'm more into gnosticism at the moment than anything.

Some interesting bits of wisdom I've come across though:

H.P. Lovecrafts essays on the topic of the nature of the universe. (In short: the universe is so vast an incomprehensible that even the faintest glimpse into the truth by a human mind would lead to madness.)

Arthur C. Clarke's Rama series. (fiction, but still an interesting idea and somehow comforting I think: God is at the nexus of all possible universes. He lines up all the parameters of each universe during the big bang in the search of the most 'harmonious' one possible. ie, God as a scientist itself.)

What the BLEEP do We Know, a very interesting movie, compiling interviews with a wide range of quantum phycisists and other intelligencia on a number of subjects relating our current knowledge of quantum physics and how it applies to our place in the universe and such.

Which is why I'm a gnostic lately. Has to do with the "fishbowl paradox." A fish in a fishbowl can tell you quite alot about it's own habitat, but very little about the world around it. Therefore it lacks the context to truly understand the world it lives in. Much the same with mankind as a whole. We know alot about our own world, very little about the universe, and basically nothing about what's "beyond" our current universe, giving us very little context as far as describing our own place in it.

JUBELLATE

Sunday, January 15, 2006 4:05 PM

Quote:
Arthur C. Clarke's Rama series. (fiction, but still an interesting idea and somehow comforting I think: God is at the nexus of all possible universes. He lines up all the parameters of each universe during the big bang in the search of the most 'harmonious' one possible. ie, God as a scientist itself.)

If you like Clarke's ideas in Rama, read his book "The Light of Other Days".

The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule. – H.L. Mencken

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