Is this for real? Please, tell me it ain't...
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Saturday, December 3, 2005 18:05
VIEWED: 5590
PAGE 2 of 4
You: "Truthfully, was that politics? Or something else?"
Him: "As Governor of Texas, George W Bush notched 152 - count -em! - confirmed kills. A personal best, until 9/11"
Silly me, I thought that was political. My mistake. Now that I re-read it, it's clearly just a general discussion of orchid horticulture in Northeast Umbria.
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Hey BB, ain't you a little new here to be explaining forum norms to Chrisisall? The Real World Event Discussion is set appart from the rest of the forum precisely to distance it from specific discussion of Firefly. As you've noticed, Firefly fans comprise the full spectrum of political belief. And we're nothing if not oppinionated. 
So Haken set up this little playground for the more politically outspoken among us to play in. I've seen some of the most respectful and well-informed political debate on the internet in the RWED; most recently Dreamtrove has contributed some very interesting information to this forum and his informal debate last week with Andrew Lynch was impressive (I've also seen a lot of typical internet noise, but that doesn't negate what I've learned from the discussions here). Lately, a whole lot of people who formerly backed W. have been coming up with personal exit strategies and the debate here has suffered.
Besides, W. did kill a ton of people in Texas. Isn't it even a little disturbing that he pardoned Henry Lucas, of all people? Bush supporters love to cry bias when something like this happens, but who wouldn't be criticized for something like that? Sometimes wrong is just wrong, no matter who's in office.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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You may be able to weaken the alliance by bringing up some evidence to prove that they are corrupt, but you won't stop them.
Alliance can be defined as any governing body.
So what does all this really matter. I'll just keep flying under the radar. Heck, we only live a few years anyway. Truth is, corruption has been going on since the creation of man. Doesn't change a thing does it? The world is a horrible place and it will be a horrible place for years to come. So conspiracy theories aside, just deal with it.
I'm just here for the blinkies.
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BITTERBIERCE:
Actually I've grown alot of respect for many of the members of these forums that i've disagreed with, Finn, Hero, even AJ.
I can only hope they have for me too.
I have to say that a lot of people on this site steer clear of the RWED. Those of us that are here WANT to be here discussing these matters with intelligent people we can respect (they must be intelligent and worthy of respect, they like firefly).
Basically, you don't want to talk about this kinda stuff, no problem, just steer clear of the RWED, like everyone else who doesn't want to talk about it does 
.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
Remember, the ice caps aren't melting, the water is being liberated.
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Quote:I must agree with all of you. We need every intellegent point of view available to come closer to truth. Even the 'wacky' fringe ones.
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
As you've noticed, Firefly fans comprise the full spectrum of political belief. And we're nothing if not oppinionated.
And lynchaj:
This is one of those rare moments where I have to agree with HK
I think Haken wisely set up this RWED sandbox to allow the various FF fans to discuss and vent without the collateral destruction of the main forums.
And Citizen:
Actually I've grown alot of respect for many of the members of these forums that i've disagreed with, Finn, Hero, even AJ.
We need a group Browncoat hug
Chrisisall, sometimes left, sometimes right, but tryin' to stay off the edge...
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Two things. One, I'm not explaining any forum rules, I'm asking politely 'can we not cause friction with our politics?' I argue and write politics for a living and I love it, but it's a full contact sport. And as such has its place. For people like those here, it can only detract from should be a comradely enterprise.
And I don't care who or what Bush did. If the man had said the same thing aboutr Kerry, I would have said the same thing back, this is NOT because I disagree or agree with any particular political position expressed: if you're taking it to mean I don't like YOUR politics, you're taking it wrong. I mean all politics. My position on Bush is frankly none of your business.
And you have a good quote (I think was, I can't tell if you wrote it or were paraphrasing Buckaroo Banzai) that fits quite well: "Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are."
Very easy to avoid meanness. Don't talk politics! It's adversarial by it's very nature, and thus naturally conducive to meanness. Opinionated people do better staying opinionated about things that don't lend themselves to violent disagreement. So Let's not do it, huh? Besides, wouldn't you much rather discuss the virtues or Jewell's butt versus Summer's? I sure do. I mean, it's clear Summer has a much better tush.
"We live in a land of abounding quackeries, and if we do not learn how to laugh we succumb to the melancholy disease which afflicts the race of viewers-with-alarm...In no other country known to me is life as safe and agreeable, taking one day with another, as it is in These States. Even in a great Depression few if any starve, and even in a great war the number who suffer by it is vastly surpassed by the number who fatten on it and enjoy it. Thus my view of my country is predominantly tolerant and amiable. I do not believe in democracy, but I am perfectly willing to admit that it provides the only really amusing form of government ever endured by mankind" -HL Mencken
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"I have to say that a lot of people on this site steer clear of the RWED. Those of us that are here WANT to be here discussing these matters with intelligent people we can respect (they must be intelligent and worthy of respect, they like firefly)."
I understand. You seem to have a reasonable approach to the matter and I appreciate your approach. But I still rather appreciate my position more. I mean remember, in Firely, the political discussion between Mal and Simon was punctuated by Mal popping Simon in the jaw.
"If you point out that human progress, as I have defined it, involves the practical enslavement of two-thirds of the human race, my answer is that I can't help it. If you point out that a slave always runs the risk of being oppressed by a particularly cruel master, I answer that a master always runs the risk of having his brains knocked out by a particularly enterprising slave"
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Okay, here is me, back, with the I disagree with what you say but defend to the death your right to say it.
So, once more, for the record:
1. RWED [IS] a political discussion forum.
2. Even if it wasn't, the post is totally valid. If there's a chance that firefly is about Bush, than it's valid.
3. Firefly is at least to some extent about Bush.
4. I'm a conservative and I've said much worse things than that about Bush.
5. Bush deserves it. Kerry might have if he had been president and done those things, certainly Clinton deserves it. It's all totally fair.
Now about the post itself
I think it's flawed.
Bush is a crackhead cokehead alcoholic jesusfreak serial killer chimpanzee.
I grant that.
But he also isn't really in power.
Taking the scull and bonesman thing out of context makes it look much worse than it is. S&B is really more of a left wing conspiracy to control the media and education born out drug money. The fact that Bushes are mixed up in it only strengthens my Bush is a stealth leftie plug.
And to those of you on the other side of the aisle, hey, if Bush were you're candidate wouldn't you try to disown him? :)
But sure. Bush is a sicko, and he definitely gets off on death. But the S&B death initiation is really about making the pawns (S&B members) feell small. Torture is about making the Iraqis feel small. Bush kills people to make himself feel big.
So it's all the same I guess, but it's different also. In S&B they're really being kind of philosophical about it, ie. we're all dust so we have to be part of something greater, okay, now serve the cause.
But Bush's power in the govt. is less than zero.
So, back to Dick Cheney, who is the real CIC. Cheney and Rummy go way back to Ford if I recall. They are tied to all these PNAC people and this doesn't really have much to do with S&B and has more to with the social dems and troskyism in the 60s-70s, max schachtman and all of that.
Any similarities between Bush's admin and his own life are probably coincidence since he makes zero executive decisions.
Plus, we all know that reavers aren't the product of their experience, they're the product of chemistry. If it weren't so Joss would lose some respect from me. Just a little because I mean, he'd still be Joss, but he seems to understand loonies so very well, and situation lunacy is just, well, a myth.
Bush himself is a drug-based psychopath. But a powerless psychopath.
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Lynch,
I get your latest spin to get your crooks out of any scrape, but I've had a bad day and really can't take this anymore.
You can't make a joke out of "Don't mention PNAC!" because PNAC is the f^&king govt. of the f^&king united states of america, the most powerful nation on earth.
If you try to cover up this undeniable reality that dick cheney and co are actually the ones in control in this country, you're like chiang kai shek claiming to rule all of china.
Here was my point, and I'll say it stronger now that I've been ridiculed and also had a really bad day:
Bush is NOT in charge. The idea that Bush is in charge is spin. It's worse than spin. It's a blatant lie.
Because of this, character references for Bush are really pretty irrelevant when it comes to assessing his motives, actions, etc.
Who is in charge is vice president cheney and the rest of the govt. What most all of these people have in common in some connection or direct membership in the very group, lately called PNAC, which set the agenda the administration is following.
So mentioning PNAC in a thread about American politics is like mentioning the Kremlin in a discussion of the cold war, or mentioning Al Qaeda in connection with sept. 11th.
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Quote:Ahemmmm he flew Interceptor Aircraft not a jet fighter, F-102 'Delta Daggers'. All his job was to point his jet in the direction of commie bombers and pop off a couple of nuclear tipped AIM-4 Falcons, landing of course was optional since there probably wouldn't have been a airbase to come back to. Being drunk and on dope was probably the only way they could get people to fly those damn things.
Originally posted by chrisisall:
The military, government and large corporations prove that intelligence is not mandatory for employment or promotion, since jobs are compartmentalized. Heck, even alcoholic doper GW Bush flew a jet fighter, somehow without killing himself, but then was stripped of his pilot license for refusing a direct order to take a piss test (a felony).
EV Nova Firefly mod Message Board:
http://s4.invisionfree.com/GunRunner/index.php?act=idx
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