Is this for real? Please, tell me it ain't...
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Saturday, December 3, 2005 18:05
VIEWED: 5590
PAGE 3 of 4
"So, once more, for the record:
"1. RWED [IS] a political discussion forum."
"2. Even if it wasn't, the post is totally valid. If there's a chance that firefly is about Bush, than it's valid."
Ok then fine. But please, no sniveling and whining about how mean I am when we talk about politics later on. And none of that Puritanical nonsense about how we can all be nice and happy and without conflict in politics: that's complete bullshit and more fanciful than Star Trek transporters.
The more viciously and mercilessly politics is discussed, the better it is. Everyone going back to Plato knows this. Politeness belongs in the real world, never politics. Remember- you asked.
'Whom do I hate most among the rabble of today? The socialist rabble, the chandala apostles, who undermine the instinct, the pleasure, the worker's sense of satisfaction with his small existence—who make him envious, who teach him revenge. The source of wrong is never unequal rights but the claim of “equal” rights' —Nietzsche, the Nachlass
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Back when Bush Jr. was flying people who were serving on nuclear (powered and armed) submarines were there because of an illiteracy program let them in to the military and put them there! I know people who have real frikken life security clearance from the US military and I wonder if the Pentagon misplaced their phyc evals. Back in the ’81 15 percent of the crew of the USS Parche was kicked out for drug use. On Seawolf (SSN 575) you were either a heavily armed nut job, a pothead or scared of the other two. Just because the USAF put them in the cockpit of some shiny pointy nose fighter that doesn’t mean they were fresh out of “The Right Stuff”.
Originally posted by lynchaj:
Have any of you actually MET any USAF pilots? Let me assure you, they are not a bunch of low IQ dope heads. Quite the opposite.
You are showing your ignorance if you actually believe any of that MSM junk about the President's National Guard service. USAF (including Air Guard) pilots have a pretty exclusive club for good reason.
Access to the controls any USAF aircraft means flight qualified and a security clearance. Access to nuclear weapons means even stricter background checks and restrictions.
What you are describing is an inherent self-contradiction.
Andrew Lynch
BTW I wasn't trying to infer that USAF pilots are dope heads just that they get lost with out roads to follow or GCI to guide them.
EV Nova Firefly mod Message Board:
http://s4.invisionfree.com/GunRunner/index.php?act=idx
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Lynch,
Sorry,
The uninvited roomie has put my mood severely on edge. I kind of felt that it was an underserved flame when I wrote it. I kind of meant it about the slight though. Ridiculing conspiracy theories does serve the conspirators most. True, conspiracy theories are 99% bogus at least, but on the other hand, conspirators do weave conspiracy theories. But still, I know conspiracies exist on the left, on the right and over in islamolooneyland. So I'd like them all under watch. But PNAC=govt. isn't conspiracy. The names of many people in the govt. like I lewis libby, paul wolfowitz, dick cheney, et al. are on the PNAC home page as founding members. But I didn't mean to lash out at you the tone was uncalled for, I was just having a serious, well, it's a mess really.
Here's something to chew on re: conspiracy theories though.
This isn't so complicated, I know someone who was in the GOP hierarchy when they created RTL. I happen to agree with RTL, but that's not the point. A group within the GOP created RTL to get votes for the GOP, but they did it stealthily:
First they came up with the ideological position, and created small groups to support it. Then they spoke with many religious groups, who already supported the idea, about sermons that they might be able to voice RTL, then they ran candidates who would say key RTL phrases that would get into office.
In short, this is a conspiracy of our party to get other people in the party elected vs. democrats who would not know to say these RTL things. Clever, and also conspiratorial. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Let's say you and I and these people on the FFF decide we're going to make an alliance to take over both parties, the GOP and the dems, and then we arrange to enter TV writing careers to brainwash people into voting a certain way.
Similar to the RTL sermons, our TV episodes get the TV viewers thinking and caring about key issues we conspire to feed in through the episodes we write. Then later we could support candidates who would speak the key phrases we had taught the public that other politicians didn't know the significance of.
We as writers in the real world would have no obvious connection, people would have to know that we were all involved in this FFF forum conspiracy. Now someone would find us out eventually and print the FFF conspiracy.
We would move quickly to kill this FFF conspiracy. We would know that to kill it, we would have to discredit it. If we deny it, it only makes the conspiracy stronger. So we pick up the story, only we make a slight modification to it.
We say:
A bunch of candidates who work for the FFF ring now, and will give their member's companies lucrative contracts or fulfill some of their political agenda items were elected because the spoke key phrases in that came from TV shows the rest of us thought weren't important. Those shows were all written by members of a ring of people called FFF. FFF in turn is a group of space aliens which also started the masons and landed in south america to carve peculiar runes in the side of temples that forcast the coming of jesus. You can see the similarity in episode 19 of Fox's sunday night drama 'Snowstorm' and the story told by anceint hieroglyphs found in king tut's tomb... etc.
This is a good part of why conspiracy theories are bogus. They were made by conspirators, and by crazy people that conspirators really wanted to give some voice to.
So in part I was wigging becuase I was in a bad mood after a real unpleasant fight with an uninvited houseguest gone sour, and in part I was wigging because I'm serious about the ridicule being a dangerous thing. PNAC is our govt. whether we like it or not, and as soon as we can get past that, we can debate the positions they take. Even the idea of Bush really detracts because Bush has never written a singular policy in his life to the best of my knowledge. Hell, to the best of my knowledge the man cannot read or write at anything above an 8th grade level. So Bush is a non-issue, which was kind of the point I
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Re: USAF Pilots
Lynch,
You have a point here.
I think GunRunner was on the this was a suicide mission nuclear war slant, but I don't know that this was the purpose. I mean, taking Project X for a moment. Sure, the USAF was really doing this stuff, so it was an idea that maybe we'd be dealing with disposable pilots. But I don't think that in reality we were ever at that point.
Bush was the worst student that his instructors had ever seen. And they had seen monkeys. But seriously. The only reason Bush stayed in the program was daddy's pull. He was fried all of the time. If instead of spinning if you would tell us why you support the people you do, I would be interested to know. I know what these people stand for, and I disagree with it. Not maybe as much as I disagree with what the democratic party stands for, but enough to get me to vote against it.
So I'm figuring either:
1. You're part of the christian right
2. You're pro-global social revolution
3. You work for one of the companies or groups that would profit from this new power structure.
just curious. I think everyone knows where I come from, I'm a pretty simple guy: no death to earth, no death to people, no death to freedom, yay competition and evolution so yay capitalism, nay communism, go gop. It's likt to hear your take on where you're coming from, if you care to share.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by lynchaj:
Anything you see from me in this forum is purely my personal opinion at that moment and subject to change.
*applauds*
Progress! Flexability!
More kudos, Andrew.
I'm even willing to state now that most people in government are not (intentionally) bad persons, and have the best in mind for this country, and all it's people!
*winces*
...wasn't..uhhh...easy to say....
...feel...weak......
Chrisis.....all....
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
On Seawolf (SSN 575) you were either a heavily armed nut job, a pothead or scared of the other two.
Not to mention terrified of that flaky reactor, or the ungodly racket that heap made (for a sub, it was really, really loud) - which would be quite enough to make ME fry a phattie, considering what most of their missions involved.
One other interesting factoid about Seawolf.
Her original engineering officer was James Earl Carter, later to become a US President.
That boat has a lot of history behind it.
-Frem
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Lynch,
Yes, it helps a lot. Now I have to say huh? Why do you like bush? He has no concept of defense at all. Why'd you like clinton for that matter. Myself I hated both. I think they're way to close to state-control in their agenda.
I second that on the UN, but it will. The global social agenda is more focused though on the EU, nafta, asean, african alliance, and undoubtedly thry'll create another one if they can conquer the middle east.
I haven't been happy with an administration with the possible exceptions of Bush. sr., and carter. Reagan wasn't terrible, but he irked me with his deficit spending. Nothing compared to this though.
I think if you're on the level here, you might be being more loyal than this admin deserves. I think it's thoroughly corrupt on a level we haven't seen since at least johnson. maybe earlier. He's very very corrupt. like 19th century style. Anyway, that's not an accusation, and I'm not going to argue the point, it just seems obvious to me, as a summation of countless obsevervations of his foibles.
But from a conservative point of view, I don't think that the office is sacred at all, and if someone can get out today and be replaced with someone else, I'd say, if it's an upgrade, go for it. You know that the people election the GOP, along with electing bush, so even if bush folds, the gop stays in power. If someone can force out Cheney, which maybe they will in '06, then I say yay, and without cheney, maybe bush can stay, since he's a chimpanzee and won't be able to do jack on his own. McCain, Powell, Warner, Hagel, just to name a few, I think I could probably come up with easily 20 republicans I'd like to see take over.
But the main thing that gets me is I have a set of ideas which are consistant with j.q.adams, lincolkn, tr, coolidge, eisenhower, nixon, ford and to some extent reagan and bush sr. so if something doesn't mesh with that, i don't have to accept it, and I might question whether it's a solidly republican position.
There's certain things the Bush admin has done that really tick me off, and okay, if I have a quesiton, it's what is your (not their) justification for these:
1. Deficit Spending. It's way way ... it's just too much. I don't like any deficit spending. I'm real unhappy about this
2. Torture. WTF? When we set that defense policy saying it was okay to use physical coersion in interrogation, the president was in violation of a law banning such practices that was written by jesse helms, who is pretty damned conservative.
3. Pre-emptive war. This is a pre-emptive war whose justification keeps changing, but lately it's been a social militarism thing, we need to save these people from themselves. That's bad and very democrat, but originally it was pre-emptive war which is downright nazi. This not about saddam hussein, there are a billion ways to get rid of saddam if you want to, and for the most part, why bother, there are much worse leaders. Al Bashir of Sudan for example. Robert Mugabe and Thabo Mbeki rank pretty high as well, and I'm none too fond of Kim Jong Il. Saddam is why iraq, but it doesn't explain why pre-emptive war.
4. The Patriot Act. What an abomination. How can anyone say they have libertarian views and not be appalled?
5. Go it alone. The idea of diplomacy is that you get people on your side. You don't just flip the bird to the planet.
6. Business. Republicans are supposed to be pro-business, but all I see are a sinking dollar a dead market and GM and Ford are about to file for bankrupcy because someone pulled a program that supported fuel efficiency and pushed companies to make SUVs.
7. Stem Cell Research. I'm right to life too, but I can't see outlawing a cutting edge American technology and letting the South Koreans gain the lead on us. This isn't moral values, it's blind stupidity.
8. Endless deception. I've never seen someone lie this much. Ever. Even Clinton didn't lie this much. They make fake news, the reherse the president's impromptu meetings and they have a wirefeed in bush's ear because he can't think fo
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
DT, your list is truly impressive. And I even agree with it. How did THAT happen? 
But if you want to talk about conspiracy theories, I got a doozy for y'all. Looking at the Cheney admin, I've got to say it's been a truly impressive power grab. I'm not going to go into lengthy detail about manipulated elections and how loyal public servants (like McCain, Murtha, and Cleland) have been pilloried in the press. But I would say that what's happened to the USA could almost be compared to a soft coup.
All this is to say that there is one fatal flaw to Cheney/PNAC grabbing ulitmate power, and that is the military and the CIA are at this point pretty fed up with the Administration. Half the of senior CIA staff and a large number of generals have retired or been forced out. And... oh crap, I have to finish this later, too.
---------------------------------
Please don't think they give a shit.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I get why McCain is playing best buddy to Bush, it's like a "Who's you daddy?" to the commander in chimp, in hopes that if Cheney can be forced to resign by the Powell conspiracy, McCain can be crowned Wormtongue, but it still makes me a little nervous. I prefered the no Bu||$#!+ version of McCain.
Yeah, there's a coup-like character to this, but I think that this one is a Chicken Coup. It might even be Chicken Coup for the Soulless.
Well, I guess they got sig :(
There's just one problem with the PNAC hawk in the chicken coup: socialism doesn't work because there's no competition, and without competition and dissent, a workable plan cannot be formulated because it doesn't ever get checked for weaknesses. The result is an untested plan, and whether you're a commie military superpower invading afghanistan, or a neocon superpower invading afghanistan and Iraq, you need a workable plan.
Anyway, yeah, I think, I hope, the old GOP, will kick out the hawk from the chicken coup, and maybe some of the other young players Norm Coleman et al can be reformed into decent conservatives.
There's another problem. These chicken coup guys are incompetent. It's like in the land of the chimps a half brained man is king.
I saw cindy sheehan the other night. She came here to speak. I disagreed with some of what she said, but not all of it. I think she's really pretty sharp. She's not a partisan democrat. I was a little surprised by that. She slammed my senator, Hillary Rotten Clinton. She even slammed DiFi. ANd of course she slammed Bush. But she's definitely the peace/left, So it gave me hope. Hope that there is a left which will rise up and take back the democratic party from the same neocon whore-hawks that we on the right have to take back the GOP from.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I can't stand either party, but you know what ?
The guy that I would most wanna install at 1600 W Penn is a Republican, for all that I totally despise what the party has become...
Ron Paul epitomizes what it SHOULD be.
Sound money, conservative spending, no frills, hands-off, common freakin sense.
Put THAT guy on that ballot, if you wanna redeem the party.
-Frem
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME