So where is the opposition to Bush anyway ?
POSTED BY: GinoBiffaroni
UPDATED: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 02:11
VIEWED: 10908
PAGE 4 of 13
HKCavalier,
No, I have no ideas what FEMA was trying to achieve. I am afraid that the problem is actually quite simple: too much government combined with massive stupidity. Too many wanted to follow strict protocols because his/her thinking and experience are limited to ordinary events. There was no one on watch, from the top down, who had the brains to figure out that protocols don't mean much when people are dying from lack of water.
I am afraid it's just that simple: massive stupidity at the highest levels.
Yet it may be, as is starting to be touted, that agendas were being served by the failures of FEMA to take action. But I can't imagine whose agendas they might be. Surely those in power don't look good as a result, so it seems like it's not their agenda. We come back to simple but wide-spread stupidity. I suspect we'll see more of it when the next hurricane hits.
(BTW, Cavalier, I envy your quiet demeanor. I lost mine long, long ago, back before Rachel Corrie (sp?) was murdered by the IDF.)
I recommend anyone interested in researching some of the untold or quietly mentioned stories to refer to www.whatreallyhappened.com, and be sure to read the letters section for what others think. These letters have been most revealing during the past 10-11 days.
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HKCavalier,
Actually, I like your analysis, though it reflects my conclusion of stupidity. Knee-jerk reaction by the administration is to control information, hide the bodies, make press releases like I heard this evening, to the effect that those looking for dead bodies aren't finding many, so the death toll MAY NOT be as bad as expect. (I agree...it'll be a lot worse. I predict at least 50,000 dead along the southern coast.) But as you noted, it's impossible to keep a lid on things here at home, thought they try to keep people out.
Actually, keeping people out now may be a good thing. A doctor friend predicted wide-spread disease will be really bad in the coming weeks, particularly in New Orleans. My personal prediction is full-blown cholera, despite the fact that "we don't have cholera" in this country. But keeping people out of what will become a death pool of disease, and getting survivors out of there even if at gunpoint, may be good to keep them alive until cleanup has killed off the incipient diseases.
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Geezer- More effective in certain circumstances, and definitely cheaper. The circumstance would be providing thousands of people with water...for example, a refuge or collection center where you may not be able to evacuate people out in less than several days. They can take the scummiest water and make it potable, and they can do it very quickly and cheaply.
Please don't think they give a shit.
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Quote:
Originally posted by lynchaj:
Basically, President Bush was going to get hammered by the hardcore Left no matter what he did in response. Those are the breaks of being the Boss.
It's not a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation except in the area of public relations. Bush is not rendered helpless because a group for whom he has no respect to begin with, will be critical of him. If he'd have acted, lives would have been saved, period.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Well, the blame game will roll on...
I think all levels of government will have to take their share, as will your laws and procedures in reguards to crisis situations.
Having so many agencys with different chains of command, different agendas, and different objectives is a recipe for the chaos that happened...
Also having vital calls made by people without any relative background is crazy as well...
In a good system, you can point at one guy and say " he was in charge ", and that guy had the power to make the neccesary calls... and that guy should have earned his position through a career of similar work...
Instead you had people dead and dying while your political system fought to decide who can do what
Nobody willing to take command, only posture
Bullshit
If that doesn't change, if your country doesn't demand that to change... and anything like this happens again...
You'd deserve it
Don't think they give a shit
I'm with Signy and Rue
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Hey- lookit HERE!
Quote:www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/09/10/katrina.media/index.html
t the request of CNN, a federal judge in Texas Friday night blocked emergency officials in New Orleans from preventing the media from covering the recovery of bodies from Hurricane Katrina.
Attorneys for the network argued that the ban was an unconstitutional prior restraint on news gathering.
U.S. District Judge Keith Ellison issued a temporary restraining order against a "zero access" policy announced earlier Friday by Army Lt. Gen. Russel Honore, who is...
Finally! After 5 years- some media gumption!
Please don't think they give a shit.
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Apparently you did not read the Federal declaration of disaster, which not only requires FEMA to coordinate state and local response, it also requires FEMA to pay for 75% of the costs and to PROVIDE ASSISTANCE. Since I've linked to this declaration in other posts, I'm not going to link it again. Just go to www.whitehouse.gov to see a copy of the declaration of Federal disaster for LA on Aug 27 (retroactive to Aug 26) and for Mississippi amd Alabama on Aug 28. And by the way, FEAM did a tabletop exercise with State and local officials in 2003. Facts, man! Check your basic facts!
Since the declaration requires coordination by the Feds, where were they BEFORE landfall?? On vacation, apparently! 
Please don't think they give a shit.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Geezer- More effective in certain circumstances, and definitely cheaper. The circumstance would be providing thousands of people with water...for example, a refuge or collection center where you may not be able to evacuate people out in less than several days. They can take the scummiest water and make it potable, and they can do it very quickly and cheaply.
Please don't think they give a shit.
Since you aparently aren't willing to do any research to back up your claims, let me do it for you. Here's a link to descriptions of the military's current water purification systems.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/rowpu.htm
Based on this, only the 600gph and 3000gph units would be practical for rapid deployment, since the 150,000gpd unit takes three days to assemble. There are about 1400 of these units worldwide. http://federalvoice.dscc.dla.mil/federalvoice/030507/weapon.html There probably aren't that many 3000gph units since they attach to larger military formations. So the 600gph would be the workhorse. Note also that production and filter life degrade if using "the scummiest water", which would be the only kind available.
Distribution from a ROWPU is in bulk (hook up a hose and fill your tanker) or in bags (from my experience, these are large (50 gallon or so) rubber bags hanging from a framework with a pushbutton valve at the bottom). Both assume that the follow-on infrastructure is there to further distribute the water to the individual soldier.
So, if units were available and deployable, you'd still have to figure how to get water from tanks or bladders out to the individuals in shelter, some with limited mobility. Lining up with cups to get to a tap just isn't practical.
On the other hand, bottled water can easily be transported by commercial truck or military helicopter, is easy to break down from pallets to cases and individual bottles for disbursement, is portable for the individual, doesn't rely on the operation of a single piece of equipment, and is readily available.
So the only argument left is cost. I fail to see how that should be of overriding concern.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Hey- lookit HERE!Quote:www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/09/10/katrina.media/index.html
t the request of CNN, a federal judge in Texas Friday night blocked emergency officials in New Orleans from preventing the media from covering the recovery of bodies from Hurricane Katrina.
Attorneys for the network argued that the ban was an unconstitutional prior restraint on news gathering.
U.S. District Judge Keith Ellison issued a temporary restraining order against a "zero access" policy announced earlier Friday by Army Lt. Gen. Russel Honore, who is...
Finally! After 5 years- some media gumption!
Please don't think they give a shit.
Oh boy! SignyM gets to see pictures of dead people! Bloated bodies all over the internet! Whoopee!
Well, so much for death with dignity.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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I care about not repeating unecessary deaths. Appointing three fuckups to the highest positions in FEMA was not a cost-free decision and people will not know the cost unless they see it on TV.
The one lesson that Reagan, Bush and Bush learned from Vietanm was: CONTROL THE MEDIA. IT was those nightly newreels from Vietnam that brought the war home to Americans. That was NOT to be repeated if they were ever to have a happy wartime adventure (Panama, Gulf I, Gulf II) or had a coverup to implement. Nope- our actions were sanitized. Warm fuzzy news all the time. No cost, and no guilt.
OF course, you would rather cover up the problem. If that is what your comfort requires, then don't watch the gory details. Nobody is requiring you to to give a shit and you can join the happy news crowd.
EDITED TO ADD: As far as the water is concerned, cost is not "the" major itme. With bottled water, you need someone to bring the water in, unstack, and distribute it EVERY DAY. Once someone has a bottle they can re-use it, like a canteen. (I do this all the time at home.) So the distribution to the individual is the same problem in both instances, but bottle re-supply is more time-and-labor-intensive. (And then, there are all those empties to consider.) Re-supplying several thousand people sounds like a full-time helicopter job to me. That helicopter and pilot might be better used doing something else, like search and rescue.
Please don't think they give a shit.
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