The violence and looting of New Orleans: what does that tell...
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 6, 2005 01:27
VIEWED: 11972
PAGE 6 of 13
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I do know this: If we boil the leadership in oil, they're likely to do better next time. And the next leadership who comes along will take great pains to not be boiled in the same fashion.
So, Chrisisall, you go ahead and rage at Bush. And Republicans, you go ahead and join in.
It's not about Bush. It's not about Politics.
It's about creating change.
An angry roar is the right tool to get things done better next time.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
This is what democracy looks like. Thank you, Anthony.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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FEMA was, about a year ago, put under Homeland Security. FEMA's top personnel (the ones who could think) abandoned the org, leaving Chertoff over everyone. Watching Chertoff's lies today (Chertoff said it was two disasters, both of which were never planned for, but that is a LIE) and attempted passing of the buck without naming Bush as being ultimately culpable was quite revealing as to the lack of spine of our leaders.
FEMA will now become once again independent. (It would seem there's far too much government and none of it knows what to do in a crisis.)
To CONFIRM, I have a pdf file of Governor Blanco's signed request directly specifically to Bush dated 28 August 2005, requesting massive aid. Repeat, this request is proven and documented FACT, not speculation.
Also today, a military spokesman pointed out that it took until today for the government to realize the immensity of the disaster. Early last week I wrote on this forum of the need for 100,000 Guard and soldiers. Only today, Saturday, we hear there are now 70,000 being sent. The simple truth is that the government not only continues to lie, they're awfully stupid.
The only thing worse than this country's failed leadership -- Republicans and Democrats -- are shitheads like Andrew Lynch who act like shills paid to try to make the worthless leadership of this country look good.
ANDREW LYNCH, go away. You are a complete moron.
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Also, backing up my statements yesterday that Rice lied, reports today were heard that yes, all the countries who offered aid (except ISRAEL, which has offered NOTHING) were in fact turned down because it was "policy." That is what Bush ought to have overridden immediately, but no, he was strummin' his guitar and playing golf.
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Quote:And I think your anger is understandable. I’m not sure that I think the accusation that Bush is out to kill Americans very astute, but I sympathize with your anguish, in any event. I just wish you could spread it out a little. Focusing on Bush or even the federal government is not where the answer lies.
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:If there was a lightning storm coming where I live, and one of the little kids who was playing on the big common lawn was left outside, I wouldn't wait for a request of any kind from anyone; I'd go get the kid, and worry about whose job it is to look after the child later.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I’m not sure what has caused this lapse of judgment (it is a very emotional issue for many), but we all have times when we say stupid things.
There was probably a lot of dropping the ball, on all sides, and an intelligent mind can feel that the federal government was more responsible then the state governments. These are usually the minds that wish to eliminate federalism and make us all dependent on a single all powerful government. I’m not one of those, and I don’t think the Constitution is either.
New Orleans is a city within a state, and many people in Louisiana would probably take some offense at being labeled a “common lawn” of the federal government. One of those responsibilities of statehood is the maintenance of law and order within the state and infrastructure. To suggest that Louisiana is innocent because they requested aid form the federal government is to suggest that it is the federal government’s responsibility to police Louisiana, and that’s not true. The federal government was prepared to send the aid they send to all other states with disaster areas. What makes Louisiana so special that their government can sit on its haunches and do nothing about the potential of major natural disasters so that the federal government should have to send the 82nd Airborne to fix a problem that was the responsibility of Louisiana? The fault lies squarely on Louisiana and New Orleans governments for dropping the ball first and foremost. The worst that can be said about the federal side is that they could have acted faster.
Bush is not responsible because one of those states did not do their job in maintaining order or preparing wisely for the well known possibility of major natural disasters. Certainly the federal government should send timely aid, but hinging your criticism on that is at best short sighted. I have no problem if one wishes to criticism the federal government for not acting fast enough. In disasters, aid is always long-time coming no matter how fast it gets there, and how late it is often directly proportional to the scale of the devastation. After the disaster has occured is the wrong time to suddenly start being concerned with whose fault it is, when you didn't bother to prepare for it begin with. In my mind, one has no call to criticize Bush or the federal government if they fail to completely criticize the state and city governments upon whom laid direct responsibility for making sure this didn't happen.
The state’s rights issue isn’t going to be solved today, and the Bush-haters are always going to be fanatical, irrelevant and employ tactless unfounded criticism on Bush. If the federal government didn’t act fast enough, and claiming that Bush went golfing is an asinine comment not evidence of the federal government’s sluggishness, then I think that is a valid source of criticism. However why didn’t the state and city governments upgrade dykes that they knew were rated no higher then a category 3? In my mind, this is the real critical question, not whether Bush went golfing. Did they feel that there would never again be a category 4 or 5 Hurricane? Or were they just less concerned for those who might die if the dykes broke then they should have been? They took a gamble. They didn’t take out insurance when they could have and probably used that money for more immediate
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I will say that if a level 4-5 hurricane was getting ready to hit, say the President's brother, then the reponse might have been a whole lot different.
Louisiana is one of the poorest states in the USA, and I personally think that the slow response had a lot to do with a Republican President ignoring the call for help from a Democrat Governor...
and I think Geo W is belated realizing that it is biting him in the @ss... you can't be President of only some of the people.
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I did enjoy seeing Bush lining up at least two media friendly snapshots of him hugging an attractive female survivor (white, of course), the same shot as he used to make himself look sensitive and caring in the run up to the last election.
Frankly, if the Democrats don't start to make some real political capital out of this failure, they deserve to be kept out of power. Americans respect leaders who stab their opponents in the back and the stomach.
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Quote:Because as an interstate waterway, the Federal government and specifically the Army Corps of Engineers has authority. And, if you had read my previous posts, you would know that Bush had specifcially taken funding away from the levee-building effort to pay for the stupid feckless war in Iraq. And of course the Louisiana National Guard (and all it's equipment) is in the same place. How is THAT not the Federal government's fault?
However why didn’t the state and city governments upgrade dykes that they knew were rated no higher then a category 3?
So- can you please leave the discussion to people who actually give a crap? And by the way- I don't count callous synchophants among my friends.
Please don't think they give a shit.
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What really gets me is that despite the fact that Dubya obviously don't care all that much, images of him hugging a few people seems to convince people he does care.
Seems like he could chuck a grenade into a nursery and get away with it if he kissed a baby afterwards...
A cute white one on national tv, of course...
Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.
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Quote:Then I will say that you are probably a nutbar.
Originally posted by embers:
I will say that if a level 4-5 hurricane was getting ready to hit, say the President's brother, then the reponse might have been a whole lot different.
Louisiana is one of the poorest states in the USA, and I personally think that the slow response had a lot to do with a Republican President ignoring the call for help from a Democrat Governor....
And I’ll say something else too. I had forgotten about federal assistance to major infrastructure projects. The federal government certainly had some say in these matters. I’m not sure how much, but enough to make me think that federal government does share some blame in not upgrading the dykes.
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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.
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as I write I'm listening to an expert who personally had been part of a task force who had told
FEMA
Corp of Engineers
AND the White House that this exact situation was a real possibility.
The recommendations were ignored for strengthening the levys...
but what he couldn't believe is that by all the scenerios discussed in high-level goverment plans,
helicopters, National Guard, and major help should have been in place last Tuesday....
the delay between Tuesday and Friday is what is unforgivable.
You may think I'm a nutbar for believing it might be political.
I can't imagine what else it could have been.
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Quote:Bureaucratic? Governments, especially big ones, can be slow things.
Originally posted by embers:
as I write I'm listening to an expert who personally had been part of a task force who had told
FEMA
Corp of Engineers
AND the White House that this exact situation was a real possibility.
The recommendations were ignored for strengthening the levys...
but what he couldn't believe is that by all the scenerios discussed in high-level goverment plans,
helicopters, National Guard, and major help should have been in place last Tuesday....
the delay between Tuesday and Friday is what is unforgivable.
You may think I'm a nutbar for believing it might be political.
I can't imagine what else it could have been.
And your presumption that Bush would intentionally not respond to a major disaster because relief was requisitioned from a Democrat is political, on your side, not Bush’s. You’re the one making statements, purely for political gain, like many of your Left-wing brethren in this thread. Claiming that Bush was on vacation or that he wouldn’t send aid because it came from Democrats are purely and blatantly political statements designed to do nothing more then arraign Bush’s personal character.
Your political message: ‘Bush is a spiteful person who would let people die because he doesn’t like Democrats.’ So let’s all hate Bush.
‘Bush goes on vacation during a disaster because he doesn’t care.’ (A commonly used political ploy.) So let’s all hate Bush.
In reality, neither statement is true. These are political messages. Faces that you put on something. Half-truths and misrepresentations of the facts in order to push a certain political agenda. That’s being political. And the Left has been at full throttle on this kind of stuff with regards to the president. It makes it very difficult to assess what is actually going on, because you’re constantly trying to weed through someone’s political innuendo to get at any real facts. The Right is the same way. Where the Left attacks the Right defends. And neither is telling you the whole story.
The truth be told I have no idea who is to blame or how bad it is in New Orleans, because I can’t rely on any of the information that is coming to me. And my gut response is to immediately dismiss anything coming from someone with a blatant political message as unreliable, which right now seems to be everybody.
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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.
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