The violence and looting of New Orleans: what does that tell...
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 6, 2005 01:27
VIEWED: 11972
PAGE 3 of 13
Quote:I actually expected a lot more damage from the storm itself, and less in the way of flooding, if you want to know.
Originally posted by MacBaker:
Chrisisall, you sure as hell didn't know, and it's so easy for you to point fingers with 20/20 hind sight! None of the trained experts predicted an extreme situation this bad! None!
And I expected evacuation to be more or less complete.
Admittedly non-expert Chrisisall
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:My political agenda is that those in office do things effectivly, with a general regard for life. As the storm approached, I figured that things that needed to be done were already in play. Why do people make excuses for ineptitude?
Originally posted by MacBaker:
please remember that lives have been shattered not because of politics, but because of a natural disaster,
My spelling is very bad, I should not edit books. The Bush administration is bad at keeping Americans safe, they should not be running this country. It has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with demanding that our leaders do a GOOD JOB.
How can one even pretend to be even somewhat objective, and say everything that could be done here was?
And if it's me that's being unreasonable and 'blind' on this thread, why all the anger? Why even answer me on anything? Just dismiss me and anyone who agrees that there's something wrong here as mentally unstable, and ignore us?
Or is there some part of you that sees where we might be right, and this scares you?
(?)Chrisisall
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Mac, I'll repost here what I posted in the Katrina thread-
Quote:
This was published on Monday, but it was anticipated well before Katrina arrived.Quote:
Flooding from Hurricane Katrina's Monday landfall could wreak catastrophe on New Orleans, overwhelming the city's water and sewage systems and leaving survivors in a bowl of toxic soup, a top hurricane expert said.
Some 25 feet of standing water was expected in many parts of the city -- almost twice the height of the average home -- and computer models suggest that more than 80 percent of buildings would be badly damaged or destroyed, said Ivor van Heerden, deputy director of the Louisiana State University Hurricane Center and director of the Center for the Study of Public Health Impacts of Hurricanes in Baton Rouge.
Floodwaters from the east would carry toxic waste from the "Industrial Canal" area, nicknamed after the chemical plants there. From the west, floodwaters would flow through an industrial complex that includes refineries and chemical plants, said van Heerden, who has studied computer models about the impact of a strong hurricane for four years....
In New Orleans, which lies below sea level, gas and diesel tanks are all above ground for the same reason that bodies are buried above ground. In the event of a flood, "those tanks will start to float, shear their couplings, and we'll have the release of these rather volatile compounds," van Heerden added.
Because gasoline floats on water, "we could end up with some pretty severe and large -- area-wise -- fires."
"So, we're looking at a bowl full of highly contaminated water with contaminated air flowing around and, literally, very few places for anybody to go where they'll be safe."
"Imagine you're the poor person who decides not to evacuate: Your house will disintegrate around you. The best you'll be able to do is hang on to a light pole, and while you're hanging on, the fire ants from all the mounds -- of which there is two per yard on average -- will clamber up that same pole. And eventually, the fire ants will win."
The levees intended to protect the city vary in height, from as low as 10 feet above sea level to about 14 feet, he said. They too are vulnerable because they are made of earth, he said.
Previous studies have suggested a catastrophic toll in lives and property if a major hurricane were to hit the New Orleans area, where about 1.3 million people live.
"...You're going to have enormous waves develop on that lake (Pontchartrain), especially with as much as 14 hours of hurricane-force winds," he said. Those waves will erode the levees, raising the possibility of their collapse, he said.NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Well, here is another few questions raised and some answered......
From this story : http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/18295762-44D7-4CA0-A409-5A94B24
0DC68.htm
" Flooded city hospitals had no electricity and critically ill patients were dying because they no longer had access to oxygen, insulin or other medicines. "
So I'm reading that when the evac order was given, they didn't evac all the patients they could from the area hospitals to both get them to safety as well as clear beds which they suspected at that point would be needed...
Mind you it seems some US politicians have an entirely different focus:
"These troops are battle-tested. They have M-16s and are locked and loaded," Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco said on Thursday night of one group of 300 National Guard troops being deployed here after recent duty in Iraq. "These troops know how to shoot and kill and I expect they will."
It seems the citizens of Louisiana are this years Iraqis.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
MACBAKER
You are mistaken in many of your comments, some of which fly in the face of reason. (Could you be a paid shill?) The ones complaining are those on the scene:
-------------
'Terry Ebbert, chief of Homeland Security for New Orleans -- complained that the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) was not offering enough help: "This is a national emergency. This is a national disgrace," he said. "FEMA has been here three days, yet there is no command and control. We can send massive amounts of aid to tsunami victims, but we can't bail out the city of New Orleans." '
(Washington Times today.)
------------
Further, you said, "No one expected this level of destruction." But it was detailed, DETAILED, at least a day before the event on several weather sites, so surely people in a position to take action knew it. One notable character knew about the impending destruction the preceding THURSDAY, so there are no excuses other than incredible stupidity at the top.
The time to complain about lack of political leadership is NOW, before the bastards have a chance to think up some phony excuse and spin it to the people. Heads need to roll, starting at the top. GOLFING? PLAYING GUITAR? Grinning like a fool and standing up for a photo op with Druglord Dad and Captain Squirt? Or Rice buying thousand-dollar shoes yesterday, and then telling the people that every penny counts? And then the bitch lied about turning down other countries' offers of help. I saw this on MSNBC today.
Some of what you have said is unquestionably true, but it doesn't address the failed leadership of this country. I tried to phone my congressmen, but they're off -- you guessed it -- on a long holiday weekend. And you think their "leadership" doesn't need to be challenged RIGHT NOW?
ChrisIsAll, in my opinion, you're right on the money, as is SignyM.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
You forgot that Cheney is (STILL) on vacation and that Condi couldn't make it to the Cabinet meeting because she was busy watching Spamalot and buying $1000 Ferragamo while people were drowning in New Orleans. www.gawker.com/news/condoleezza-rice/index.php
Please don't think they give a shit.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Here are the basic facts as I see them:
1) Every politician/leader/police chief/head indian/whatever, knew that if New Orleans were hit by a major hurricane, they would be in terrible trouble. Never mind that they all had the "it can't happen here" attitude, they KNEW.
2) The Bush administration knew long in advance the hurricane was coming.
3) Many folks too poor to buy gas decided to sit it out. Because severe advance warnings were given, they ought to have realized many of them would die.
4) The Bush administration cut funding for improvements to the dikes, spending it instead on the illegal Iraq disaster.
5) The Guard, normally first responders to such an event, were dispersed to Iraq with too much of its equipment incl. helicopters.
6) The levees broke, AS PREDICTED, and we instantly lost New Orleans.
7) The President failed to act quickly enough, i.e., failed to recognize the immensity of the problem. (Either that or he cared more for his vacation and golf than dying blacks down south.) If he had delegated authority to the farcical Homeland Security, it was Bush's job to see that they acted quickly and effectively. This did not happen, and the onus is on Bush.
8) People are still dying by the score because of too-slow responses.
9) Politicians are ducking responsibility and this makes me very angry.
10) Just now I read that the cleanup job goes to....DICK CHENEY'S HALLIBURTON!
One final fact seems apparent:
11) If the people of the U.S. swallow this without seeing heads roll, there is absolutely no hope for the U.S.
====================================
Conjecture?:
I suspect the Bush administration also had the "can't happen here" mentality, and could not face the fact that it had happened, nor could they grasp the scope of it.
Some truckloads of supplies rolled into the area but were not permitted to unload. When the President showed up, sure enough, they rolled in for yet another photo op.
(Ps: SignyM, I agree with your edited comment, the one you posted first on your 17:59 retort.)
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Cheney is not on vacation :
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2005/s1449294.htm
" Halliburton Stocks rise as Hurricane Katrina tears through New Orleans "
and no wonder, rumor has they will likely get some more big money contracts to build refugee camps, clear away wreckage, etc...
I would say the prince of darkness has had a pretty good day for himself.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:... feasting on the flesh of the dead.
" Halliburton Stocks rise as Hurricane Katrina tears through New Orleans "
and no wonder, rumor has they will likely get some more big money contracts to build refugee camps, clear away wreckage, etc...
I would say the prince of darkness has had a pretty good day for himself.
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
In my neck of the woods (western Massachusetts) when a winter storm is coming, they ready all the sanders, salters and plows, and start work as the first flake hits the ground. These guys are remarkable.
The government had DAYS to assemble a response to the hurricane, and DAYS to evacuate people, and billions of dollars at their beck and call.
You make a good point. Here in Ohio in the hours before a major storm they are out pre-treating the roads. But its not the Federal Government thats doing it.
The evacuation and immediate aftermath were left in the hands of State and Local Authorities. Elsewhere in the country, far outside the storm's reach, the Federal Govt was prepared with stockpiled emergency supplies and Federal Aid. It took two full days to open the roads and gather the materials. The first aid began to arrive Wednesday but was met with violence.
The decision was made to mass the aid convoys and move them in with troops from neighboring states. If Local and State Authorities hadn't so badly screwed up the preparations and initial response, the Federal aid could have arrived sooner and been of greater immediate impact. I point to Mississippi and Alabama as an example. Both have a much better handle at the State and Local levels (mostly State, because the locals got leveled).
We shouldn't forget that thousands more could have and should have been evacuated in the hours before the storm. A flooded lot containing dozens if not hundreds of school buses is sitting right now just miles from the Superdome.
H
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME