The violence and looting of New Orleans: what does that tell...
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 6, 2005 01:27
VIEWED: 11972
PAGE 5 of 13
Quote:
Originally posted by evilmike:Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
That's almost funny if it weren't so sad.
Did looting and rape occur in Indonesia after the tsunami? Or did they try to help each other?
Yes to both actually. I know this isn't the popular view, but people do some pretty horrible things without ever being Americans.
Yeah but I think his point was he thought Americans were better than all that...
And he thought wrong obviously
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
The break down occurred with New Orleans, not the federal government. And not that it matters, but for Liberals information, both New Orleans’ Mayor and Louisiana’s governor are Democrats. Certainly more should have could have been done by them.
I would agree with your statement there...
except some people are posting that both the city and state governments requested assistance on Sunday....... before the storm hit......... and it appears no action was taken
As I have said before, everyone dropped the ball horribly. If local officals started calling for help on Sunday, wouldn't you agree ?
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There is one other item that I'm going to research. I have information that the New Orleans emergency managment was actually contracted out by Department of Homeland Security to Innovative Emergency Managment (IEM). I don't quite see how that would work- it's possible that DHS just contracted out the planning, not the implementation. When time permits, I'll look into it.
Response lapsed all the way around. But DAYS after the first levees broke and even more DAYS after the governors called for Federal help (in the line of troops, as I understand) Bush went golfing and attended McCain's b'day party in AZ and went for a photo op in San Diego to commemorate WWII. So, see my signature...
Please don't think they give a shit.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
There is one other item that I'm going to research. I have information that the New Orleans emergency managment was actually contracted out by Department of Homeland Security to Innovative Emergency Managment (IEM). I don't quite see how that would work- it's possible that DHS just contracted out the planning, not the implementation. When time permits, I'll look into it.
Response lapsed all the way around. But DAYS after the first levees broke and even more DAYS after the governors called for Federal help (in the line of troops, as I understand) Bush went golfing and attended McCain's b'day party in AZ and went for a photo op in San Diego to commemorate WWI. So, see my signature...
Please don't think they give a shit.
Reforger was suppose to move several divisions worth of troops all the way to Europe in less than a week...
But in seems the US can't move them across their own country in the same timeframe ???
a little strange, no doubt
When my eloquence escapes you
My logic ties you up and rapes you
http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/the_police/de_do_do_do_de_da_da_da.h
tml
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Quote:If there was a lightning storm coming where I live, and one of the little kids who was playing on the big common lawn was left outside, I wouldn't wait for a request of any kind from anyone; I'd go get the kid, and worry about whose job it is to look after the child later.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I’m not sure what has caused this lapse of judgment (it is a very emotional issue for many), but we all have times when we say stupid things.
They screwed up on every level as far as I can tell, and since I'm trained to look to my superiors for the nodd, I go to the top for life and death deals.
If assistance was not requested, how did that go un-noticed by the feds? If it was requested, and not sent, it falls on the feds. If they did all they could, then the feds have no clue, and should have.
I am way more harsh on the American government than maybe I should be. I grew up with Truth, Justice, etc., and I really expect it all the time from the government of my country, I guess that's a little unreasonable.
Thanks for posting, I really want to hear all sides on an issue, and as always, you have made me reconsider my thinking.
But I still can't see where the Bush administration is off the hook no matter what happens...
I mean I could just leave that little kid out in the lightning storm. Chances are he'll be okay. Not my responsibility, anyhow.
If I can make a difference it damn well IS my responsibility Chrisisall
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Well before the hurricane hit, meteorologists were predicting a 25 - 30 ft storm surge, overtopping the levees by 10 - 15 ft. What were the people 'in charge' thinking was going to happen with that? That somehow the city would not be flooded?
But the problem with flooding in THAT geography is that it is completely different from the standard hurricane scenario. It makes even a devastating hurricane strategy irrelevant.
With a hurricane, once it has blown over and the storm surge has passed (in a matter of hours), people can shelter in the wreckage. There is no immediate need to move them en masse and find them an alternate place to stay. And rescue/recovery/repair efforts are mounted from the ground - with front loaders, chain-saws, linesmen working their way through the debris.
With flooding as has happened in other areas, it generally comes from one side (a river) and people can escape to higher ground by going the other way.
In NO, there was no higher ground. And an entire city's population had/has to be relocated. And all efforts (after the fact) have to be mounted from water by boat, or from the air.
That makes the situation entirely different from a hurricane OR flood scenario. And the response should have been tailored to meet the need.
If they had been prepared for the surge they would have been prepared for levee failure. But events prove they were completely unprepared for anything.
My cynical side says national preparation went something like this - well, if it hits Florida, Jeb can take the photo op. But there's no Republican opportunity in Louisiana.
Remember, this is the same administration that wrote off an entire state (California) to let their buddies price-gouge on electricity. Does anybody really think that politics plays no role?
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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Quote:But he was crying on the inside...
Originally posted by SignyM:
Bush went golfing and attended McCain's b'day party in AZ and went for a photo op in San Diego to commemorate WWI. So, see my signature...
Please don't think they give a shit.
Chrisisall
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Quote:Oh, I'm sorry, I must be mistaken.
Originally posted by lynchaj:
Do you have any sense at all? Or even a sense of shame?
Yeah, the Federal Government did great. I was just a little turned around is all.
Know what? SHAME on YOU for defending those who don't care, or can't do their jobs.
Chrisisall
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Hi all,
Our usually even-tempered Chrisisall is really hot about this subject.
Our Republican contingent is up against the wall, taking shots about our largely Republican leaders not doing enough.
Let me say this.
If Democrats were in charge, this probably would have happened the same way. This kind of ill-preparedness and poor response has more to do with human nature than politics. I think all political groups would have failed equally here.
HOWEVER,
If it was a Democratic president, we'd nail him to the wall for this kind of failure, and rightly so. Not because Democrats are inherently inferior at handling things than Republicans. Simply because, when a train is mishandled, you HAVE to go after the man at the switch. That's the ONLY way to create change, is to shout in righteous indignation and make your leaders uncomfortable enough to do better next time.
So, it happens to be Bush. Is he better or worse than a possible Democratic counterpart? I don't know.
I do know this: If we boil the leadership in oil, they're likely to do better next time. And the next leadership who comes along will take great pains to not be boiled in the same fashion.
So, Chrisisall, you go ahead and rage at Bush. And Republicans, you go ahead and join in.
It's not about Bush. It's not about Politics.
It's about creating change.
An angry roar is the right tool to get things done better next time.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:
Originally posted by lynchaj:Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
And you Bush fans are lookin' stupider and sorrier by the minute.
How much does it take to see that this administration is KILLING US (LITERALLY as well)?
Chrisisall
That is a disgusting cheap shot and just plain wrong.
Do you have any sense at all? Or even a sense of shame?
Prostituting others misery for your own petty political hackery is just the sort of vile behavior I've come to expect on FFF.net RWED.
Andrew Lynch
Another one for the history books. In your eyes, Andrew, what criticism of a sitting president can a person make that wouldn't be some form of smarmy politically opportunistic attack? We have a right in this country to criticize our leaders, for crying out loud! You don't like it, move. Personally, I'm still in shock about the 4 day delay. I don't know quite what to make of it, but it ain't good. You're looking more and more like a simple toadie here.
From what I can see, our centuries old cultures-wide emotional sickness is finally catching up with us. The insane human obsession with control, with blame, and with revenge is finally starting to show it's true colors. That we went to war with people who at the time could do no harm to us was an evil act driven by the illusion that we could control the irrational forces in the world through military action; that an ethnic body was to blame for the violence we have suffered; that we could acheive a satisfying revenge without perpetuating the cycle of violence. And one of the tragic consequences of that deployment is that we left our own people without recourse, many of whom died, are dying and will die in the days to come, because of our government's shortsighted disregard for reality.
People think caring and callousness are just expressions of personal sentiment, when in fact they have far reaching moral and political consequences in the real world.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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