The violence and looting of New Orleans: what does that tell...
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 6, 2005 01:27
VIEWED: 11972
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Quote:I was also attempting to address the whole 'what's important' thing - tying up all our resources in the Iraq War, and basically ignoring our homeland.
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
I'm not one to avoid slamming the Bushites when it is due, but more of the immediate action stuff in this case would be a state or local call... did they try anything like that ? if they didn't have the assets did they ask for them and were turned down ?
And the whole structure of our society that allows for the feeling of justification of violence as an outlet for pent up rage for the inequities of daily life during a crisis.
Maybe I'm biting off more than I can chew here, but if many who didn't or couldn't leave feel that braving the storm was par for their course, why wouldn't they behave like they were animals just set free by the destruction of their zoo?
Edit: referring to the craziest things being done by a small percentage.
911 could have been averted. The present disaster could have been much better handled.
But what seems to be important to 'them' is reaction, not prevention.
Adults don't seem to be running this country, only angry, dangerous children.
I'm sorry, I'm from the 24th Century, you see, and we've evolved beyond all such nonsense.
In the wrong time Chrisisall
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Quote:Um.. are you agreeing in an angry sort of way, or are you being out there to be sarcastic?
Originally posted by Spinland:
Yep; those are the hard questions that must and will demand answers--preferably at the pointy end of impeachment proceedings. Send the heads which will roll down to the refugee camps for NO residents, so they can stick them on pikes.
I can't tell...
Angry beyond the capacity for rational thought Chrisisall
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I'm agreeing in quite an angry sort of way. I would gladly take a trip down there, all the way from NY, for the sole purpose of urinating on said piked heads. 
----
I can see you.
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Hmmm...that's angry.
Chrisisall
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I'm angry too. They should have had pallets of MREs and medical equipment and water-purifying equipment (not bottled water that costs a fortune but water purifying equipment that the military USED to use before KB&R got in the act) ready to go, staged in Texas. They should have made mandatory evacuation actually possible by commandeering buses, trains and planes and doing a house to house evacuation. They should have, and could have set up tent cities on SUNDAY out of harm's way.
I'm going to be real unpopular here, but do you all remember the hurricane that flattened Haiti and killed so many people? Well, that same hurricane hit Cuba full-force, and not a single life was lost. Don't tell me that we can't do what Cuba managed! That's just so much bullshit. The only thing that was missing here was the political will to spend the bucks.
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Indeed you can plan for anything. However, the measure of how well you planned will only come when the worst case scenario you devised (safe in the knowledge that it would never occur) actually happens.
Take what happened in London after the July 7th bombings. The police, the rescue workers, the medics, the hospitals, the detectives and the other emergency services worked as one cohesive unit after the attacks because the government had a) envisioned something like this happening, b) worked out exactly what needed to happen, c) devised a plan that allocated resources and responsibilities, d) informed, trained and retrained those who would be part of that plan. The result? There was no mass panic, no scenes of chaos outside hospitals as the casualties came in too quickly and above all a sense that the authorities knew what they were doing.
Do you what the biggest complaint was about the governmental response to the bombings? That the helpline set up for people worried about relatives in London charged national call rates rather than being freephone.
Now I grant you, the bombings in London caused only a fraction of the damage that Katrina did to New Orleans. But nonetheless, the evidence is clear that the plans for this eventuality were appalling ill conceived. What's more, they are still obviously making things up as they go along, with no cohesive strategy in sight. You can do this but it costs more and you have to be prepared to commit large scale resources, something the government (and I use the phrase advisedly, as I have no idea whether this was the responsibility of local or national government agencies) is failing to do.
Hopefully this will cause a few more mayors, governors and even Presidents to think to themselves "I had better prepare for the worst case scenario." Because you never know when you might be facing it.
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In my neck of the woods (western Massachusetts) when a winter storm is coming, they ready all the sanders, salters and plows, and start work as the first flake hits the ground. These guys are remarkable.
The government had DAYS to assemble a response to the hurricane, and DAYS to evacuate people, and billions of dollars at their beck and call.
Am I asking too much that they be able to follow guidelines and proceedures that the people they pay to come up with provide them with? Why even have reports and recommendations and such if they don't intend to use them?
Or is it a case of survival of the ones with the most means (no car=no good income=bad taxpayer=expendable humanity)?
Chrisisall
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Your questioning of the budget and resource allocation is quite valid, I was not questioning that....
My only point is ( not being an American and only know a bit of your chains of command ) that most of the immediate assistance planning would have been done by state and local officals... if as I had asked the evacuation plan had serious flaws the question would then become why ?
A) They didn't think of it ( then the planners are to blame )
B) Didn't have the assets... once again the planners should have realized that much of the equipment needed was no longer there and the alert had to raised to bring what was required in. If the state and local officals didn't start calling for help until it was too late... then they are still at fault.
C) Help was asked for, but for whatever reason the request was not acted on...
This would be the case which would require heads to roll in your Federal government... Some might talk of " lost infrastructure " and " mobility problems " but if it was known the assets required were not in place they should have been moving long before the diaster in this case.
One thing I noticed while serving in my countrys military, when we exercised with your army, you never seemed to have any shortage of equipment... but even if some say it is all in Iraq... why aren't the guys who are here trying to do what they can with what they have ?
After all, even if they weren't accomplishing much... pictures of your forces doing anything on the ground would kill most of these questions... and maybe provide calm through example
So San Frans next ? inside two years maybe ?
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Quote:"Has it now become a crime to cherish life?"
Originally posted by SignyM:
I'm going to be real unpopular here, but do you all remember the hurricane that flattened Haiti and killed so many people? Well, that same hurricane hit Cuba full-force, and not a single life was lost. Don't tell me that we can't do what Cuba managed! That's just so much bullshit. The only thing that was missing here was the political will to spend the bucks.
Sorry, it seemed appropriate.
How can it be unpopular to raise cogent questions?
Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:What?
Originally posted by MacBaker:
No one expected this level of destruction. No one could plan for this!
No one can plan for this? You have to be saying that out of emotion. Professional agencies with trained and funded staff can 'plan' for ANYTHING they are directed to plan for.
That is so naive, you should be embarrassed! Emotion? Sure, but backed by experts, not arm chair reactionaries!
No one can predict mother nature. No one can predict when and where a levy might fail. According to the Army Corps of Engineers, one of the sections that failed (that is causing the most flooding, BTW) was a newly worked section that is at the height they want the rest of the levy to be raised to. The water didn't top the lower sections of the levy, but came through breaks!!! The levy height wasn't an issue! The real issue was that it couldn't hold back the water that hit it, and it failed. It was inevitible that this would happen! Experts have predicted this for years, but none of these same experts ever predicted this level of destrution and flooding.
The city of New Orleans is built below sea level! Hello, where's the logic there? If we really wanted to avoid this, the city should have been shut down years ago and moved to higher ground. BTW, that's exactly what the government required of many towns in IL and MO to do, when they were flooded in the massive floods there a decade ago. The towns either moved and rebuilt up higher on the river bluffs, or they didn't get federal aid to rebuild!
Here's the problem with these levys around New Orleans! We could spend billions more, and it still won't help! Sure they hold back flood waters (at least until now), but because they exist, the Mississippi river no longer feeds silt to the natural bayous in the area, and the entire coast line in the area is eroding at approximately 75 square miles a year. Eventually, New Orleans would be a walled island! In fact, because of the surronding marshlands and bayous, it really is a walled island. New Orleans has been living on borrowed time for years. What no expert did predict, was that a level 4 or level 5 storm would do anywhere near this level of damage! Chrisisall, you sure as hell didn't know, and it's so easy for you to point fingers with 20/20 hind sight! None of the trained experts predicted an extreme situation this bad! None! All of the models they used predicted much less destrution! This storm moved much slower and was much bigger than any other recorded hurricane to hit the Gulf coast. No one predicted this, simply because they had no model to compare it to. FEMA's worst case scenario preperations were well below the actual damage that occured.
Again, wake up and smell the BS you are shoveling with this pointless blame game.
As for the moron expecting impeachment for this, you are just the worst kind of idiot without a clue!
Bush gets blamed for staying at his ranch for two days? Why? Do you think his intel and advisors couldn't do their jobs unless they are in the White House? Do you think phone calls to FEMA, the Coast Guard, and state and federal officials can't get made from his ranch any easier that they can be done from Washington? Are you really that dim? Fact, even if you do foolishly believe Bush just sat back at his ranch for days and did nothing, he still got back to Washington days before any congressmen did (both Republicans and Democrats).
Now, when the Bush blaming haters are done pointing fingers in another pathetic and impotent attempt to use this horrible disaster to push their own personal political agendas, while ignoring the reality of the real issues (life), please remember that lives have been shattered not because of politics, but because of a natural disaster, and remember to give to the charities that can help these people (The American Red Cross and the Salvation Army)!
In other words, quit bitching about what our government can do for us, but instead ask what we can do for our country (and our fellow
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