Karl Rove Betrayed CIA Agent's Cover - Anyone Surprised?
POSTED BY: Knibblet
UPDATED: Thursday, July 18, 2024 00:11
VIEWED: 14186
PAGE 12 of 12
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Okay- We all decided that we don't like the same old same old. Nobody changes their POV and so the discussions are static ("stasis" not "noise"). The only way to move the discusion forward is for people to come to them with open minds, not simply turning them into wrestling matches where evasive maneuvers, dodges, and eye-gouging is allowed.
So, I'm going to ask a question that is ON TOPIC, and I hope to get an answer: Why should "we" (the public?) wait until Karl Rove (or any politician?) is indicted (convicted?) before discussing (reaching conclusions?) about his activities? Or, to back up a step...maybe someone will step forward and clarify what they think is the appropriate action to take. I will listen and reply respectfully and directly. Thanks.
Out of respect I will try to answer. Please note that any percieved partisan slant read below is in your own imagination.
"Due Process"
I do not mean the Legal definition of it, but more the MORAL reason WHY it is such an important piece of the bedrock which the American Legal system is laid on.
Anyone can accuse wrong doing.
Anyone can manufacture evidence.
Anyone can lie.
Anyone can mislead.
Anyone can inflate the Rhetoric to make the small, seem big.
Any one of these things can ruin the reputation of an innocent citizen, or, conversly hide the guilt of another.
It happens on both sides of the spectrum. The Rhetoric surrounding the "Karl Rove" issue by the Democrat side of the isle is just as bad as the Rhetoric of the Republican side used during the "Monica Lewisky" issue.
In both cases (as in all pushbutton issues) the Rhetoric is STUPID, NON-CONSECUENTIAL, and DEBASING of the dignity of the American political system.
Who cares if Clinton was fooling around with Monica. Thats a reflection on his personal morality and love of his family. It should never have gone as far as it did. But the Republican Rhetoric elevated it to near impeachment.
Shame on the politicians, and shame on the media for eating it up and not investigating impartially.
"Please note that the below is not a known official finding but my best guess at this time due to the fact that the special prosecuter has not reported his findings as yet."
Who cares about Karl Rove and Valerie Plame. She was not an undercover operative at the time of the supposed "outing" if he in FACT "outed" her. She was never in any danger anyway due to having been out of the field work for the past 6 years. After all she had already been outed by the Russians and Cuba about a decade ago.
Shame on the politicians, and shame on the media for eating it up and not investigating impartially.
And last of all, shame on all the constituents who ride the Hysterical Rhetoric Train rather than their own God given ability to reason for themselves.
It's this sort of behavior that hurts our country much more than it could ever help it.
This post was rather quickly written. If I had taken more time, I never would have chosen an issue like Karl Rove since it is still an open issue, so in reality what I wrote is not proveable at this time. Therefor, I claim the right of "Artistic License" in this case since I am only trying to make a general point.
SignyM, pick away at this if you wish. I'm not going to change it due to the fact that this is really only my opinion on why Political Rhetoric is "BAD" and the fact that my boss has noted my typing away on discussion board which is "BADDERER"
Good Day
Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.
BarnStormer
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Quote:
The posts in Real World Events have just been forums for the spouting of Political Rhetoric. Nothing is accomplished but for the Far Far Wingers to vent their respective Spleens and blame all the worlds problems on their specific self proclaimed demons.
geeze tell us something we don't already know oh moderate one!!! LOL,
your right nothing is ever acomplished, and from the looks of it, its not likely to change, you have to aim to want to acomplish something, but mostly people just want to vent. thats why I post only when I have the need to say something even if I am venting!!!
Quote:
The moderate voices of reason just with attempts to invoke a sense of reality to the topic of the day, and are promplty labeled (wrongly) as the lap dog of (insert your party here).
oh yes let us not forget the wise moderate voice, because only the moderate can invoke reason and reality right!!! Wrong!!!
you fail to realize that we are not living in a moderate government, the moderate has no place or home in the Bush Administration your a fast an dying breed under this Administration where most people feel compelled to choose a side, you either stand for something or you stand for nothing, thats the way they want it , even most people who try to resist find themselves falling into the trap.
A moderate is just looked at as someone who is afraid to go out on a limb where the fruit is , sure some people fall off the tree but they still get the fruit. the moderate gets nothing except for maybe a perch on the tree where he can look down at the people eating their fruit!!
Quote:
I for one (or another after Geezer) am sick to death of the abysmally stupid rants of the far far wingers. And deeply sorry for the efforts I have given to express my own VERY MODERATE opinions and explanations to the deaf of ear, heart, and reason.
They can hear you, some might even agree with you, but they aren't likely to get any fruit hanging out with you!!!
Then why even bother to post Oh MODERATE ONE!!!LOL!!! Obviously engaging in rants from the far far wingers is so far beneath you!!
sorry I couldn't resist!!
I know the real world folder is sooo serious but we all need a good laugh from time to time!!!
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Quote:
It happens on both sides of the spectrum. The Rhetoric surrounding the "Karl Rove" issue by the Democrat side of the isle is just as bad as the Rhetoric of the Republican side used during the "Monica Lewisky" issue.
I just knew the Monica Lewinsky- Clinton thing was going to be brought up..Why I ask...its apples and oranges.
Clinton had an affair...
Karl Rove is essensially being accused of Treason, two totally diffrent things that don't even compare.
If we go by the definiton of what conssitutes treason in our country, then outing a CIA agent defintely fits that bill.
if someone in the Clinton or any democratic Administration had done what Karl Rove did and likely Cheny too, they would have already been thrown in jail.
But this is the Bush Administration, and what Bush and CO says goes..if they say no crime has been committed then no crime has been committed. They always bend or change the rules for themselves!!! and its as simple as that!!
Anyone who knows Karl Rove's tactics and M.O knows he is not innocent he is a criminal and he's always used machiavellian, devious, dirty crimnal tricks to get what he wants, he's a liar and a cheater a manipulator and can tell he's sick, Outing a CIA operative to further is own agenda is hardly unthinkable. Did Bush and Cheny know about this and give him the greenlight, of course they did..but will Rove take the fall..in an administration that makes up its own rules as they go along where even the law does not apply to them its not likely!!!
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Barnstormer- Good points. And I hope the boss is a nice guy/ gal!
EDITED TO ADD:
Jenny- I understand your frustration. I'm trying to limit my responses to Barnstomer's statement, so if I don't respond to you immediately it's not because I necessarily disagree.
Quote:
"Due Process"
I do not mean the Legal definition of it, but more the MORAL reason WHY it is such an important piece of the bedrock which the American Legal system is laid on.
Anyone can accuse wrong doing.
Anyone can manufacture evidence.
Anyone can lie.
Anyone can mislead.
Anyone can inflate the Rhetoric to make the small, seem big.
Any one of these things can ruin the reputation of an innocent citizen, or, conversly hide the guilt of another.
It happens on both sides of the spectrum. The Rhetoric surrounding the "Karl Rove" issue by the Democrat side of the isle is just as bad as the Rhetoric of the Republican side used during the "Monica Lewisky" issue.
In both cases (as in all pushbutton issues) the Rhetoric is STUPID, NON-CONSECUENTIAL, and DEBASING of the dignity of the American political system.
Who cares if Clinton was fooling around with Monica... Shame on the politicians, and shame on the media for eating it up and not investigating impartially... It's this sort of behavior that hurts our country much more than it could ever help it.
So I shouldn't trash-talk Rove, O'Reilly shouldn't trash Wilson, and Gingrich shouldn't have trashed Clinton because it's too easy to ruin a reputation by rumor and innuendo. Do I get your point?
But then, in order to avoid the free-for-all that seems to have taken over politics nowadays, it sounds like nobody should say anything about anybody ... unless it's nice? I'm sure that isn't your intent, so you must have some sort of ideal in mind how people can exchange information and opinions without "trashing" people.
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Cut and paste from SignyM post above.
************************************************
So I shouldn't trash-talk Rove, O'Reilly shouldn't trash Wilson, and Gingrich shouldn't have trashed Clinton because it's too easy to ruin a reputation by rumor and innuendo. Do I get your point?
But then, in order to avoid the free-for-all that seems to have taken over politics nowadays, it sounds like nobody should say anything about anybody ... unless it's nice? I'm sure that isn't your intent, so you must have some sort of ideal in mind how people can exchange information and opinions without "trashing" people.
End Cut and Paste
***********************************************
I think there is a big difference between "Trash Talking" and "Inflated Rhetoric".
For instance, in another thread I expressed my personal opinion of Ward Churchill (It was not flattering). Again, it was only my personal opinion of the mans character based upon his "Little Eichman" essay and other publications he has made in the past. I call that "Trash Talking".
Regardless of my personal opinion of his character however, the decision to dismiss him from his teaching post should not be based on the "Inflated Rhetoric" of the Left and Right wing media, but on whether or not he falsified his resume to get a tenured position in his college.
Those who use "Inflated Rhetoric" show only one thing (again in my opinion). They show that they don't care whats morally right or wrong, or what is truthfull or a falsehood. They only care that they win the argument based on their original premis. In other words, they can't admit they were wrong. Or WILL not admit they are wrong because it will undermine their agenda.
Argueing the points of a certian issue is not in the least a bad thing, it is in fact the best thing that can be done to keep our country on the right track. But only if the participents keep an open mind with the mutual goal of SOLVING the problem at hand. Not winning the arguement at all costs to prove that their organization is the one that "knows and see's all".
Your statement above calls the political situation of late as a "Free for All". This is with out a doubt true in both the political arena as well as the arena of the media. And I also believe that the fault lays squarely with the "Far Far Wingers" of both these arenas.
The users of "Inflated Rhetoric", Hyperbole, and the disengenuous (sp) are the ones that have caused this turn of events. I for one think it is a great internal threat to the freedoms we have in our country.
We have got to get our collective heads out of our asses soon. Very soon.
Once again, this has all been my own personal opinion. Whether or not this "Labels" me in one dasterdly way or another is of no concern to me.
Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.
BarnStormer
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And that's where the endless disputes over what is an isn't factual come in. If what one says is true it's by definition not inflated rhetoric, and the other way around.
So in order to prove they are 'right' and not guilty of inflated rhetoric, we find people weasling around single words and phrases. Or changing the topic, not answering the questions, stonewalling on simple facts, making ad hominum attacks etc. Rather than discussing the issues.
Don't you find that frustrating? I do.
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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Barnstormer has made some excellent comments here that I think warrant further discussion, but it's starting to take a LOOOOOOONG time to load up this thread, not to mention the topic has broadened beyond the Rove thing, sooo, I'm starting an extension thread to this one. I'd love it if you all join me.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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so many ex-youtube links deleted
Ex-CIA analyst Sue Mi Terry charged with spying for South Korea in exchange for luxury handbags
https://news.sky.com/story/ex-cia-analyst-sue-mi-terry-charged-with-sp
ying-for-south-korea-in-exchange-for-luxury-handbags-13179265
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