Karl Rove Betrayed CIA Agent's Cover - Anyone Surprised?
POSTED BY: Knibblet
UPDATED: Thursday, July 18, 2024 00:11
VIEWED: 14186
PAGE 5 of 12
Quote:In other words, I never called for his dismissal, did I?
Originally posted by rue:
Finn, Finn, Finn ...
I am familiar enough with dodge phrases - it seems, it appears, I think ...
And with how you routinely malign people through implication.
So here it is, in a nutshell:
You said if he got his job through fraud he should be fired, and that he was not up to academic muster, and that his phony Indian 'status' got him the job. The only thing you left out was "therefore".
I’ll simply respond with your own words:
“So, find me a quote where I say [ Churchill ] should be instantly fired.”
Or does this only apply to you? The rest of the world is subject to whatever strawman you decide you want to use to manipulate people’s comments to suit what you want to be true?
Evidently, you think the "minimum policy" should be that Rove should be suspended, so you are calling Rove’s dismissal without due process. Is there some reason why Rove shouldn’t be granted the same benefit of the doubt as an instructor who condones the mass murder of Americans? You've decided that due process was so important in Churchill's case, but not Rove's?
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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Finn, Finn, Finn ...
I am familiar enough with dodge phrases - it seems, it appears, I think ...
And with how you routinely malign people through implication.
But, alas. This is the republican way. I think they send them to a school or something to perfect the technique. Wonder if they have a class on avoiding federal grand jury indictments?
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Quote:Ummm... a point here? Maybe it's because Karl apparently doesn't know how to handle classified information? That he could have inflicted real harm to our security (and according to some CIA ppl he did)? Or possibly that he appears to have broken a law? Suspension is not firing, you know. It merely means that a person is temporarily removed from their duties (often WITH pay) while the facts are sorted out. So far, according to both Karl's lawyer and Matt Cooper, the facts would justify suspension.
Is there some reason why Rove shouldn’t be granted the same benefit of the doubt as an instructor who condones the mass murder of Americans?
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Quote:First of all, suspension (with or without pay) is not dismissal. Basic fact you can't seem to wrap your mind around. Second, Churchill's statements fall under first ammendment constitutional protections. Rove's - not so much. Last, you yourself made the link between Churchill's statement's and firing by direct contrast - I would not, but they ....
Evidently, you think the "minimum policy" should be that Rove should be suspended, so you are calling Rove’s dismissal without due process. Is there some reason why Rove shouldn’t be granted the same benefit of the doubt as an instructor who condones the mass murder of Americans? You've decided that due process was so important in Churchill's case, but not Rove's?
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Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Finn, Finn, Finn ...
I am familiar enough with dodge phrases - it seems, it appears, I think ...
And with how you routinely malign people through implication.
But, alas. This is the republican way. I think they send them to a school or something to perfect the technique. Wonder if they have a class on avoiding federal grand jury indictments?
Are these guys EVER going to be held to account for their vapid denials and constantly shifting realities? Karl Rove says he didn't even know Wilson's wife's name and then is shown to have named her in an email. McClellen says the accusation is "ridiculous" and then is proven wrong. Cheney says the insurgency is in it's last throes and then gives us double talk dictionary definitions of "throes." Rummy says these "last throes" could take "2, 5 or 12 years." Bush says that Bin Laden doesn't concern him anymore and less than a month (I think it was just a few weeks) later denies it, saying, "I don't recall ever saying that." And on and on and on and on and on and on. They wanted to impeach Clinton for lying about who he had sex with, but the constant lies and obfuscations about matters of actual national importance...nothing.
"This has all been covered before."
"It's old news."
"lefties whining about non-issues."
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Here are a few more: The Bush administration resisted the formation of the 9-11 Commission, and has STILL refused to allow access to key witnesses, then paints themselves as "anti-terrorists". Gonzales splits hairs about the meaning of torture to justify... torture. There is no such thing as global warming... well, maybe there is. The true (actuarial) cost of drug coverage in Medicare was suppressed. The TAX CUTS benefitted everyone. Bush is a compassionate conservative. Social Security is in crisis, but the Federal budget... not so much.
Some Americans can swallow ENDLESS filth. As long as they keep swallowing, the Administration will keep pooping it out. And those same Americans can live with fundamental chasms in their brains, without ever a spark of thought crossing the divide between one basic thought (I am superior) and an opposing one (I am afraid). I think it has to to with America being the most religious developed nation in the world. If you grow up believing in the universal invisible friend, you're primed to accept statements that contradict your own senses. And that makes you vulnerable to televangelists, politicians and hucksters of any sort, as long as they speak a familiar lingo.
BTW, there is a big untold story here. There were TWO Administration sources to the Plame story. Rove was one and my bet is that Cheney was the other. The two halves of Bush's brain. Gosh, if he had to fire them both, he wouldn't know what to think!
I have NO respect for people who have NO respect for what they put in their brains.
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Quote:How do you know any of this is true? That is what due process was to determine. Are you magic? Evidently, you’ve already convicted him, right?
Originally posted by SignyM:
Ummm... a point here? Maybe it's because Karl apparently doesn't know how to handle classified information? That he could have inflicted real harm to our security (and according to some CIA ppl he did)? Or possibly that he appears to have broken a law?
Quote:I don’t remember you calling for Churchill’s “suspension.” All I remember you complaining about Churchill was “due process,” and how important it was before anyone jumped to conclusions, or suggested that he maybe shouldn't have condoned mass murder. Evidently, if you’re Karl Rove it’s less important.
Originally posted by rue:
First of all, suspension (with or without pay) is not dismissal. Basic fact you can't seem to wrap your mind around.
Quote:“So, find me a quote where I say [ Churchill ] should be instantly fired.”
Originally posted by rue:
Last, you yourself made the link between Churchill's statement's and firing by direct contrast - I would not, but they ....
Quote:Did all of you attend that class?
Originally posted by SergeantX:Quote:But, alas. This is the republican way. I think they send them to a school or something to perfect the technique. Wonder if they have a class on avoiding federal grand jury indictments?
Originally posted by rue:
Finn, Finn, Finn ...
I am familiar enough with dodge phrases - it seems, it appears, I think ...
And with how you routinely malign people through implication.
Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
. . . Bush says that Bin Laden doesn't concern him anymore and less than a month (I think it was just a few weeks) later denies it, saying, . . .
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
I think it has to to with America being . . .
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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.
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Finn- Look, I know you're on the defensive here, but at this point you're in blatant denial of reality. It has already been verified that Plame's indentity was classified. It has already been verified that Rove was ONE OF the sources. Ipso facto, Rove mishandled classified information. Whether he did this maliciously or stupidly, whether he placed CIA officers in jeopardy or broke a law has yet to be determined, which is why I said it APPEARS that he has broken a law. You don't wait until AFTER the investigation is concluded to suspend someone. Suspension is normal operating procedure when serious ALLEGATIONS are made against a government official or employee, and is invoked while the invetigation is taking place. Here are some examples of allegations that would probably result in suspension: sexual harassment, mishandling accounts, mishandling sensitive information, or (in the case of police officers) excessive use of force.
If it seems like I'm beating this dead horse, it is because you appear to fail to understand what suspension is and when it is used.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:Quote:How do you know any of this is true? That is what due process was to determine. Are you magic? Evidently, you’ve already convicted him, right?
Originally posted by SignyM:
Ummm... a point here? Maybe it's because Karl apparently doesn't know how to handle classified information? That he could have inflicted real harm to our security (and according to some CIA ppl he did)? Or possibly that he appears to have broken a law?
Jeez'chrise, Finn, WTF? I think O.J. did it. In fact, I'm pretty darn sure he killed his wife and that other guy. Michael Jackson can't be trusted around young boys. Rodney King got the
beat out of him. There's at least one sex addict on the Supreme Court. Due process doesn't change the truth. "Due process" and "innocent before proven guilty" are matters of law. They were designed with the intent of limiting the power of the state. They do not determine reality or describe the way people actually live or think (in most cases). I'm not magic, I'm just not blind to what goes on in the world. And, get this: I might be wrong.Whatever nit-picking feud you may have going with Rue here, the rest of us still get to say what we think is obvious. None of us has the power to fire any of these folks, so we're all just mouthing off here. Do you mind?
Quote:
Did all of you attend that class?Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
. . . Bush says that Bin Laden doesn't concern him anymore and less than a month (I think it was just a few weeks) later denies it, saying, . . .
Ah, now, what are you dragging me into this nonsense for? I added the "I think" precisely because I wasn't sure of my facts and was too lazy to go look 'em up. I didn't want some jackanapes to dismiss my whole point with "it wasn't a month, it was 43 days!" Aw well, best laid plans...
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Regardless of whether he technically broke the law or not, what has most of us upset is that this was yet another one of Karl Rove's underhanded smear jobs. THAT's what offends me more than anything and, to be honest, I do want to see him get caught, at least for something. They ought to be able to prosecute him for the tremendous damage he, and his ilk, have done to the democratic process. But since that's unlikely, I'll take what we can get.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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