Karl Rove Betrayed CIA Agent's Cover - Anyone Surprised?

POSTED BY: Knibblet
UPDATED: Thursday, July 18, 2024 00:11
VIEWED: 14186
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SIGNYM

Sunday, July 17, 2005 10:31 PM

Quote:
If Karl Rove committed a crime then he should be charged, indicted, tried, and severely punished if convicted of violating the terms of his security clearance. Otherwise, he is innocent.

Then I guess I'm free to "smear" away, since it's unlikely that I'll be convicted of a crime. Therefore, by your logic I will ignore your appeals for ethcial behavior, since according to you ethics don't count.

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Sunday, July 17, 2005 10:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
but you stating so, does not make it true.
Emails and direct testimony under oath don't count?

Certainly, not your interpretation of them.

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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

SERGEANTX

Sunday, July 17, 2005 10:46 PM

.... must hold on... to sanity.. must resist. (through sheer, glassy-eyed repetition, the talking points are invading my mindspace)... help me..

Yes. I see now. Karl Rove has done nothing wrong. These aren't the droids we're looking for...

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

SIGNYM

Sunday, July 17, 2005 10:50 PM

Finn- perhaps you missed the quote email? At this point I'm going to end my discussion w/ AJ and Finn, for what I think are pretty obvious reasons.

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Sunday, July 17, 2005 11:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Finn- perhaps you missed the quote email? At this point I'm going to end my discussion w/ AJ and Finn, for what I think are pretty obvious reasons.

I don’t know which “quote email” you are referring to, but if it is one that contains the “proven fact” that Rove mishandled classified information as you assert, then I must have missed it.

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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

SERGEANTX

Sunday, July 17, 2005 11:10 PM

Finn, AJ, you guys have really outdone yourselves on this one. And pretty much shot your wad as far as speaking with any moral integrity goes.

You've steadfastly supported the notion that as long as Karl Rove cannot be 'convicted' everything is hunky dory. Moral: "Don't get caught".

How can you be proud of supporting those kinds of ethics? Rove gets caught in yet another underhanded attempt to manipulate the media and all you can do is look for loopholes. Doesn't it bother you that Karl Rove wasn't confident enough in his administration's position to rely on honest politics to support it?

It would be soooo refreshing to hear just one Bush supporter speak up and at least say "Hey. Karl Rove is repeatedly involved in shady business. It's not the kind of thing we approve of and he needs to be put on a short leash." But we don't get that. Instead, it's just the droning litany of excuses and technicalities that make it OK to support a scumbag.

The only conviction I'm seeing here is to victory. Karl Rove wins elections and runs the media like his own personal three ring circus. You don't care what he does to achieve this, how deceptive or underhanded his smear campaigns get, as long as he wins. So much for bringing dignity back to the White House.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

SIGNYM

Sunday, July 17, 2005 11:25 PM

Sarge- Let me add one more thing. If there are any reasonable conservatives (Geezer, for example) who want to know if ardent Bush supporters have even one toe dabbling in reality, just read this thread. It should answer that question.

CHRISISALL

Monday, July 18, 2005 12:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by lynchaj:
PS, what do you guys expect from someone from Manticore? (thanks to Chrisisall !)

I expect you could introduce me to Max...

Chrisisall

SIGNYM

Monday, July 18, 2005 1:09 AM

So, hey, if you're as bummed about Rove as I am, why don't you sign 'em all??

www.workingforchange.com/activism/action.cfm?ItemId=19325
www.political.moveon.org/firerove/

SOUPCATCHER

Monday, July 18, 2005 9:21 AM

Hat tip on the post, SergeantX. And to Rue, and Signym, and Knibblet, and HKCavalier, and anyone else who I'm missing who are slogging through the latest round of Rove-redemption-rationales being pulled out.

I've been ghosting the thread and not posting up until now, but just had to drop a few pennies worth of my thoughts. It's probably the beer talking...

Am I surprised that Karl Rove would put partisan politics above national security? No. This is absolutely consistent with his actions in the past. There's a reason George HW Bush dumped him. Ask John McCain about Rove's tricks. Or the governor of Texas who was rumored to be a lesbian while Bush was running against her. Or the opponent of one of Rove's clients who was labeled as a pedophile right before the election. Katherine Harris found out what happens when you cross Rove. He's the iron fist beneath a not-so-velvet glove. Not surprising that he doesn't run for public office. The last thing he wants is to be in a position where he's held accountable.

Rove's defenders have invested way more thought and effort into rationalizing his actions than he did before he leaked Plame's status to multiple reporters. I honestly don't think he gave it much thought. Wilson needed to be attacked and he had the ammunition. The fact that the ammunition was classified probably didn't enter into the equation.

I've been following this story since July 2003. It dies down and then flares up months later. And each time it flares up people have jumped to Rove's defense with the same bogus rationalizations. There will be a resolution soon (at least by October 2005) where we'll known one way or the other whether Rove will be charged. I'm not holding my breath. I think there's enough wiggle room in the "knowingly" part for Rove to escape. I hope I'm wrong. But Bush will be fighting like mad to keep Rove around. Without Rove, Bush isn't elected governor of Texas, let alone President. It says something to me when the man most responsible for your success is morally bankrupt.

A couple of other surprises... Fitzgerald is running a very tight ship. Most of the leaks have come from people who are the subject of the investigation. All accounts that I have read which quote someone inside the investigation also make it a point that the sources wish to remain anonymous because Fitzgerald doesn't want any leaks. So it's hard to say what criminal charges are being considered. There's a huge list of people who have given testimony. Once again, we'll have to wait and see.

There is one aspect that is troubling me, and that's Judith Miller being incarcerated. Much as I think she deserves to be in jail for serving as a pipeline for Chalabi disinformation in the lead up to the Iraq War, I don't think she should be jailed for refusing to name her sources. Even though this administration is notorious for abusing anonymous sourcing to spread bullshit, I still think we should be bending over backwards to allow geniune whistleblowers the option. Of course, I'm open to the argument that Judith Miller might as well be a member of the administration, there's no fourth in that estate. Pretty much the only rational for incarceration that would sit well with me was if Miller had actually passed along classified information, rather than just receiving it.

I guess I see this incident as a litmus test. Most of the people I know and talk to, whatever their political persuasion, are not happy with CIA agents getting outed as part of a partisan political attack. That's to put it mildly. The few who see nothing wrong will, in my opinion, never see anything wrong as far as this administration goes. They are the true believers. Party-over-all and all that. I'm almost to the point of thinking that they see themselves as members of a political party first and citizens of a country second. Almost .

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