MAJOR SPOILERS, but I had to say something....

POSTED BY: bassgravi
UPDATED: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 09:11
VIEWED: 20578
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THUNDAR

Saturday, June 25, 2005 2:22 AM

Jeez.. The very best fiction, especially science fiction, is the kind that make the characters seem as real to you as your friends. I have no one favorite character.. Well, aside from my lust for Morena This is not the Star Trek universe where only the Red shirts die. These characters are our friends. It hurts when a friend dies but as everyone well knows, it happens. I Loved the BDM and I will watch it again when it's released in Sept. I will also buy the DVD.

The Mal and Zoe conversation was most clearly about her. It fit Mal's character perfectly to ask about her in that manner.

GET A GRIP PEOPLE

RIVERBIRCH

Saturday, June 25, 2005 4:15 AM

Is River totally "deprogrammed" now that Miranda has been taken care of? Is she "well" and "normal" now? Or are there other code words programmed in there as well?

Riverbirch

GAMBIT3

Saturday, June 25, 2005 4:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by tdtmf:

-----------------------------------
Both of us agreed that the end of the movie was ruined by Wash's death, which came across as a cheap plot device rather than a necessary element to the film. This has been a character driven series from the beginning. If I wanted to see an action flick I'd rent any number of films being churned out by Hollywood, but what we all fell in love with, and what has made us so loyal to this show, was the characters. Killing off Wash felt like a slap in the face to the fans who enabled this show to make it this far.

From a practical standpoint, it will make the difference between whether I see this movie once in the theaters or ten times. Who wants to watch someone they love get killed over and over again? I think Joss needs his fans if the movie is going to make it and we deserved the payoff. We browncoats deserved to walk out of the theater feeling victorious and with Wash dead that victory was entirely diluted. Who cares that Kaylee has sex after that? Poor choices from an otherwise masterful storyteller.

--------------------------------

that sums up my feeling exactly

td

Doubly so for me.

__________________________
http://www.gambit3.com

VIGGENBOY

Saturday, June 25, 2005 4:54 AM

I've never been a fan in a comminity like this one before. I've always been passionate about film, but never shared that passion with a group of like minded/like hearted people on the internet. I saw the film in round two of screenings, and like just about everyone was floored. I walked out of the auditorium babbling to my girlfriend how "that wasn't real. Wash didn't just die." (First phase of dealing with loss: denial.) On the drive back from the theater my friends and I talked it through, and despite it being INCREDIBLY SAD, Joss should be applauded for being so brave. I've seen a couple people here share this same opinion on why it was so important: If Wash didn't die, then the ending would be like just about every other action film... a great big sound and light show. Thats it. No emotional attachment, no real jeopardy fealt by your audience. When Book died, it was sad, but it seemed like he was our sacrifice to make the dangers of the 'verse real. This wasn't a GI Joe cartoon, this was people you love dying. And in lesser hands that would have been it. We all would feel safe that the sacrifice to reality was made, and the rest of our beloved BDHs would make it back alive. Enter a HUGELY BOLD MOVE by a filmaker. For the first time in I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG, POSSIBLY EVER, I was on the edge of my seat, thinking to myself Oh my god, there's a chance he's ending the story and all of my heros are going to die! Right now! JESUS!!! I felt vulerable. The drama at the end became real. A storyteller did his job to the ulitmate level, without bowing out. He handed us the move we would be hurt by but understand with Book. He LEVELED us with a move NONE OF US SAW COMING, and through it all up in the air.

For those of you upset to the point of giving up your love for this 'verse that we all adore... give yourself some time. Once the emotion passes, I hope that it will end hitting you like the end of a relationship does: The ending was cruel and hard, but in the end it was the best thing for both of you. (But I don't think Joss really wants to break up with us. )

Mr. Whedon, a Browncoat salutes you. More. Please make more.

BASSGRAVI

Saturday, June 25, 2005 4:56 AM

Ok, so obviously if someone's read this far, they know there are spoilers so here it goes:
I don't think Wash's death opens up new plot points, at least, not for Browncoats. We know Wash, we loved Wash...
Through the entire movie I realized more and more that the crew of Serenity was just that: a crew. Nothing more.
Then, you take the one character that didn't seem completely hollowed out inside and kill him because what good is a crewmember if he's not all hollowed out and haunted by his past? How could we possibly let a happy person live because hey, not even Kaylee was "up" in that movie.
(No offense to Jewel, or anyone else because by itslef it was a great movie, but as a part of Firefly I was beyond disappointment.)
They treated Kaylee's character badly, she wasn't cheerful, she wasn't naive or sweet or kind like we knew her to be, she was a somewhat soft-spoken gal who fixed ships and wanted sex.
They reduced all the characters to something flat, and even if they spend trillions of dollars in numerous sequals to go back and explain the characters, it's not fixed.
Wash's death was beyond needless and under the circumstances in the movie it was still implausible in so many ways. It was like "Oh they're safe, but we can't let anyone leave the theater happy so...after completely destroying the tenth crew member, let's kill the most innocent person there!"
Granted, the above mini-rant is not the most logical piece of work I've ever written, but I figure I can get the logic part of it later...
I was sad, but now I'm just a little angry and indignant...nobody kills my Wash and Book but me, gorramit and I say they aren't done yet!!

ASA

Saturday, June 25, 2005 4:59 AM

Wait a week, or two weeks. The shock will wear off. Everyone was screaming and yelling after the previous showing as well, but eventually you come to terms with it.

It's actually like experiencing a real death, as if a close friend or reletive died. It hurts. That's a sign of how good a writer Joss is. But wait a while and like any death, you will feel better. You will get closure.

You saw a preview version, while I am certain the plot will not change, I strongly hope that no one boycotts the movie becuase they are mad at what happens. Go see it in it's final form before you pass final judgement. Sometimes seeing something a second time can really change you view of it.

BASSGRAVI

Saturday, June 25, 2005 5:02 AM

And I think Wash was a bad choice of sacrifice because (and I think I've said this) what about all the people who died just because they might have helped Mal, the little boy that was friends with Kaylee, the people Mr.Uber-Assasin killed? What about Book? Mr.Universe (strange though he was)?
Did that sacrifice not count enough for you folks?
Geez...and I though I was bloodythirsty.
(btw, don't get all self-righteous and offended by the bloodthirsty remark...it's not personal...unless you're responsible, that is...)
Oh, and pardon my typos...my fingers get behind when I'm thinking too fast...

HELL'S KITTEN

Saturday, June 25, 2005 5:34 AM

I can't count the number of times I've read people complaining about the same thing on all the various fan boards. Yes, everyone's entitled to their own opinion. Yes, I love Wash (present tense, mind) and hate that he was offed in the flick.

It is beyond me, however, why a certain sect of "fans" feel that they are entitled to anything. Despite Joss' witty intro to the movie, this isn't your movie; it's his story. His blood, sweat and tears - forgive the cliche - partially made possible by all the money you've given to FOX through DVD sales.

The movie was never intended to be just another longish episode, so, no, it's not light and safe. That's what the X-Files movie was, and to date, I haven't seen a sequel....

So to say it was wrong? Um, try it on for size: "Yes, Joss, dear? Your art is wrong. Your imagination is wrong. Your idea about your characters is wrong. Listen to me, for I have seen the DVDs many times."

If you don't feel the least bit silly saying that - or something along those lines - then I shall politely smile while I slowly step back and exit stage left.

Now, having said that and probably annoyed a bunch of people.... (insert polite smile)

The only thing that really bothered me about the event itself is from more of a flow standpoint. It happened suddenly, and I understand why, but even the second time seeing it, I couldn't figure out where that damn thing came from. I know it was a Reaver thing, but the out-of-nowhere-ness of it made it seem a mite cartoonish; like the big anvil falling from the sky after our cartoon hero escaped eminent danger against all odds and everyone saying "Yay! we're saved!" If there was some more obvious visual connection that would cement this spikey weapon thingie in the context of the rest of the film - still without giving you time to think that it had Wash's name on it - I think the whole thing would have flowed a bit better and might not have set people off quite as much.

(But keep in mind that there are more important things for a group of smart, passionate people to worry about than a figment of someone else's imagination.)

Besides, you'll always have your DVDs.

Cheers.

无党派人士

RIVERBIRCH

Saturday, June 25, 2005 7:08 AM

I still want a little dinosaur that says "Wash: In Memorium" to stick to my car's dashboard.

riverbirch

SWITCHY

Saturday, June 25, 2005 8:34 AM

I just want to say that there are a great deal of sincerely and deeply felt opinions here and they are all well considered but in regards to Wash's death no-one has mentioned what a beutifully crafted moment it was. I was moved by his self congratulatory moment of having just saved them all "I am a leaf on the wind". A perfect moment. I know how fast we are forced to move on but I do think he was given a moment of grace and I have actually smiled to remember it.

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