Ward Churchill - NOT a Native American? Fire him.
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 03:59
VIEWED: 16391
PAGE 10 of 16
Quote:Sort of telling isn’t? :D
Originally posted by BarnStormer:
How come no one will comment on the Churchill Plagarism deal? I mean after all, it included both written essays and works of art. Coupled with threats of violence if his accusers don't keep their mouths shut?
Never mind the 9/11 essay or the dubious ancestry, this turd is disgrace to his supposed profession.
It really puts things into perspective to see where some people’s priorities lie. Here we have the pedantic ramblings of a man who condones the intentional murder of thousands of innocent civilians based on some misguided fantasy of nationalistic pride. The psychosis of Hitler almost to the letter and some people can’t bring themselves to denounce this guy, apparently because he’s a fellow Left-winger. Instead they try to deflect the issue to the Right. The latest story is to try to bring up some journalist who snuck into the Whitehouse. During a discussion about the ‘befittingness’ of mass murder we are supposed to be outraged over some weirdo web blogger as if there is any equivalency at all. It's telling. It's very telling.
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Yes, it is very telling is'nt it.
Of course they should be given the benefit of the doubt. They could be researching their responses after all.
Maybe....
Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.
BarnStormer
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"The latest story is to try to bring up some journalist who snuck into the Whitehouse. During a discussion about the ‘befittingness’ of mass murder we are supposed to be outraged over some weirdo web blogger as if there is any equivalency at all."
He didn't "sneak" into the White House, he was given clearance as a White House reporter even before he started working for the so-called news publication Talon (which itself is a front for the Republican Party).
As far as Churchill is concerned, you really just want to go after this guy because of WHAT HE SAID, not because of plagarism, or because he said he was an Indian, don't you? Conversely, it doesn't matter HOW hypocritical the whole Guckert situation is, the guy gets a pass because he's pro-Bush, right? It's called "conflating" issues- a favorite word of the right, look it up.
If you want to talk about what Churchill said, and you feel he should be nailed for it, fine. But in the meantime, stop presenting this as a plagarism horror story because we all KNOW what your agenda is, and bitching about plagarism just makes you look stupid. Try to disentangle your hidden agendas from your rationalizations and bring some intellectual rigor to the table. Or maybe just some rigor, or maybe rigor mortis. Whatever.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
"The latest story is to try to bring up some journalist who snuck into the Whitehouse. During a discussion about the ‘befittingness’ of mass murder we are supposed to be outraged over some weirdo web blogger as if there is any equivalency at all."
He didn't "sneak" into the White House, he was given clearance as a White House reporter even before he started working for the so-called news publication Talon (which itself is a front for the Republican Party).
As far as Churchill is concerned, you really just want to go after this guy because of WHAT HE SAID, not because of plagarism, or because he said he was an Indian, don't you? You just want to nail this guy for ANY reason. Conversely, it doesn't matter HOW hypocritical the whole Guckert situation is, the guy gets a pass because he's pro-Bush, right? It's called "conlfating" issues- a favorite word of the right, look it up.
If you want to talk about what Churchill said, and you feel he should be nailed for it, fine. But in the meantime, stop presenting this as a plagarism horror story because we all KNOW what your agenda is, and bitching about plagarism just makes you look stupid. Try to disentangle your hidden agendas from your rationalizations and bring some intellectual rigor to the table. Or maybe just some rigor, or maybe rigor mortis. Whatever.
Whoa SygnyM, Whoa
Temper now, watch the Temper. Did I twang a sensitive nerve there?
I never did present this as a "Plagiarism Horror story" as you put it. I was merely pointing out some additional facts about Ward Churchill that I felt were a good barometer of his character (meaning he has no character).
I've not tried to keep it a secret that I think Ward Churchill is a "Turd". Here, I'll say it again, under oath:
"I Barnstormer, do fully believe with all my heart that Ward Churchill is truly a TURD"
There, see, no secret agenda there.
I think it is really curious that it was 10 posts ago when I linked to the plagiarism/threats story and since then it's only now that I get a response from either you or Rue that even mentions it. And when YOU do, it's to lash out and call me stupid, and accuse me of having a hidden agenda.
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SygnyM wrote:
But in the meantime, stop presenting this as a plagarism horror story because we all KNOW what your agenda is, and bitching about plagarism just makes you look stupid. Try to disentangle your hidden agendas from your rationalizations and bring some intellectual rigor to the table. Or maybe just some rigor, or maybe rigor mortis.
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You don't have an agenda????????
I'm not the one who tried to sidetrack the discussion by insinuating that Karl Rove was having a homosexual relationship with Guckert in order to get WH press passes.
If anyone could use some "Intellectual Rigor", you might want to look in the mirror to see who that might be.
Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.
BarnStormer
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Nah, you didn't touch a nerve. Actually, I'm taking a crack at right-wing-style argumentation. I find it strangely freeing to be able to dish out innuendo, red-herrings, and ad hominem arguments with abandon. After you stooped to calling Churchill a "turd" (a laser-like perception which opens up all kinds of avenues for thoughful debate) hearing you complain about my lack of rigor is pretty funny. So, to reply in kind- Bush is JERK. Nyah nyah nyah.
Did you look up "conflate"?
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SygnyM,
You keep dodging the question....
Dodging to the left I might add.
After finding out about Wards other transgressions, what do you think of his professional integrity now????????????
That was after all the entire point of MY post.
So far, your responses have been nothing but raging adolescent innuendo, insults, and defiance of answering a simple question.
How old are you by the way? I hope I'm not having this inane discussion with a junior high school student. It would however explain alot about the way you chose to post.
Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.
BarnStormer
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Quote:
I read the retraction in the paper posted, so what he did say was he was less than 1/4 Indian. All these real Indian groups seem to agree he is not an indian.....and have been petitioning CU to dump him for years. Mmmmmm.
Quote:It used to be that 1/4 Indian was the federal rule for being considered Indian (1/8 for females), but I believe the tribes now decide who is and isn't Indian.
It is not unusual for Americans who have some Native American blood, but whose families live within the mainstream community and who know their heritage only from family tradition, to encounter difficulty proving their ethnicity to the satisfaction of administrators. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Churchill
As an example - there are many people with majority Indian blood - the freed slaves who went to live with the Seminoles way back when around the Civil War, if I remember correctly - who have lived with and intermarried with the Indians, and lived on the reservation with the Indians for the last ~140 yrs, who are not now considered Indian. (I think it was an effort to cut them out of the Indian gaming bonanza.)
But Churchill didn't claim to be a blood member. He was an 'enrolled' Indian - at one point he was admitted to the Cherokee tribe as a non-blood member, but that program was later terminated.
I personally know two people (one of whom appears Black, the other Hispanic) with substantial Indian blood, who nevertheless are not members of any Indian tribe.
Finally, I posted a story (above) which indicated Churchill has Indian genetic markers from both sides of the family tree. If it is true, he does have Indian ancestry.
Quote:Because, like a lot of things said about Churchill, at this point it's only an allegation. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you about things that may not be true. I'm willing to wait to see if they prove out.
How come you did'nt comment about the plagiarism Rue. Just curious mind you.
Of all the things said about Churchill and CU - not qualified, not an Indian, plagary, threats, corrupt hiring etc, I haven't seen any proof. Perhaps you could point the way?
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Of course he can't point the way- because he deals in allegations and innuendo.
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I’ll take another stab at this and try a different approach (and jump into the middle of things since, by the time I finished working on this entry, more posts accumulated).
Before the brouhaha erupted, if you would’ve asked me to name some authors associated with Native American ethnic studies I could’ve only come up with three names off the top of my head: Ward Churchill, Vine Deloria, and Sherman Alexie (and Alexie, as an author of fiction, is more along the lines of Native American literature). I haven’t read any of these authors extensively (and Churchill, not at all). Their names are imprinted in my head through conversations with people who are more conversant with Native American ethnic studies. I’m more interested in Chicano/Chicana studies myself, specifically of the California variety (call me self-centered 
). This is more self-educational reading on my part completely unrelated to my field of study and endeavor in mechanical engineering design.
Ethnic studies work, in general, is not valued by the majority of Americans (bold sweeping generalization). We tend to like our history neat – black hats and white hats and to the victor go the spoils. By presenting a point of view sometimes in contradiction to our accepted historical narrative (manifest destiny, bringing the light of civilization to the savages, the only good Indian is a dead Indian, etc.- to focus more on Native American studies for the purpose of this discussion) scholars are walking into cultural minefields. Many people see no need to learn anything about the multiple points of view of minority groups and actually feel threatened when those views are discussed. There is resistance because that’s not the way these people learned their history. I personally think this is a close-minded approach. It’s like saying that the British narrative is the only valid point of view for all things related to Northern Ireland. (And that’s assuming that there is a coherent monolithic British narrative).
A common complaint of those who dislike ethnic studies in general is that their point of view (the majority historical narrative) is not given equal treatment. Hence, the push for the misleadingly named Academic Bill of Rights (which is an attack, not just on Ethnic Studies, but a large number of other fields of study). They want to force those who teach in this field to give equal time to the majority viewpoint. This is the height of arrogance. The whole point of ethnic studies is to provide a counter, a space where minority viewpoints are discussed. It reminds me of an old joke that I was reminded of recently. A kid asks their parent, “There’s a Mother’s day and a Father’s day. How come there’s no Children’s day?” The parent responds, “Because every day is Children’s day.”
So that’s one push against those doing research in Ethnic Studies. Another push comes from groups who want to change the nature of academia in general. A belief from many on the right is that universities are hotbeds of liberalism. I concede that the percentage of liberals found in academia is probably higher than the percentage of liberals found in the overall population but I also think these people are overstating the case. They see this rampant liberalism as a threat and are trying to change what they see as an undesirable situation. So we see groups, such as Lynn Cheney’s, identifying those academics they see as too liberal.
All of this is background. This is where I’m coming from at the start of this conversation. I’m skeptical in general of any attack against an academic in the field of ethnic studies and tend to see it as part of a larger narrative of coordinated effort among various conservative groups to remove people they deem as a threat. I’ve mentioned previously that none of this furor from the right erupts if Ward Churchill is not who he is. He was already a target. The goal is to remove him from his position. So it doesn’t matter what rationale is used, as long as one works. And he’s provided a lot of good ammunition to his
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Rue
Down at the bottom of this link is the admission by Ward Churchill himself that he copied the painting in question. The owner of the copyright to the original painting denies any permission was given to anyone, ever, to copy any of this artists work.
http://news4colorado.com/topstories/local_story_055200531.html
Also, from that same link is a video of Ward wailing on the reporters who asked about the copying of the painting.
See the msnbc link in my previous post for the copied essay he passed off as his own after being denied permission from the actual writer of the essay.
Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.
BarnStormer
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