Pakistan's Bhutto Killed in Attack
POSTED BY: deadlockvictim
UPDATED: Tuesday, April 14, 2026 16:40
VIEWED: 12906
PAGE 15 of 16
There is no part of the Legislation that doesn't scare the crap out of me.
It should have been written as
Quote:Period.
(1)The President may employ the armed forces, including the National Guard in Federal service, to--
Provide aid and assistance in times of emergency under the direction of the responding disaster agency, including but not limited to transportation, medical and food supplies, engineering, evacuation services, and temporary housing.
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Always look upstream.
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Quote:Turn away from Fox news for a spell. The debate contains the question of whether waterboarding is torture. You assume here that it is not. I think a majority of Americans believe that it is.
Originally posted by Hero:
Polls have constantly showed that while Americans do not generally support torture, they do support the need for aggressive interrogation tactics such as waterboarding (which simulate an act like drowning which is actual torture) and other methods that cause discomfort to the subject.
I have no hard numbers handy to back that up, but I'll throw this at you: http://waterboarding.org/torture
Quote:OK... pay attention... Fiction. It's a work of fiction. Entertainment.
Add to that the fact that among the most popular television characters in recent history is a character who regularly uses torture, murder, blackmail, etc.
Hey - I cheered on Neo when he stormed the lobby of the building in the first Matrix, but that doesn't mean I'm cheering that shit on real life!
Really - please, Hero, this is the first point where I'm wanting a response from you. You do understand that fiction and real life are not the same thing? Right?
Quote:That is your argument. That is not the public's opinion. Is the popularity of a TV show like 24 the only thing you have to back up your claim that the public wants a wide blanket of persecution and torture cast over the world by a secretive and unaccountable government?
I think that a compelling argument can be made that people want the information those folks have and they understand that they may not like or approve of the methods needed to get the information...
Quote:You must be getting desperate to avoid real debate, to resort to misrepresenting my argument so inanely. Or are you simply incapable of reading and absorbing my posts?
You just think that its better for innocents to die in unprevented attacks...
Quote:Huh?
...and you WANT the rest of us to know the things that we really don't want to know so that the rest of us are forced to act to prevent the torture rather then acting to prevent the terror
Um... stick your head in the sand if it makes you happy. Live in your fictional TV world. It only makes it easier for me to tear your posts up.
Quote:And I could say that your opinion results in terrorist attacks being more likely happen because you, sir, create the terrorists. Because you think like one and you uphold that mentality as something noble.
Unfortunately your opinion results in terrorist attacks being more likely to happen
Which leads to the #2 thing you haven't responded to. Let me jog your memory.
Hero: "I note for the record that in war sometimes the only way to tell the good guys from the bad guys is that the good guys regret what they have to do."
Me: "[This] shows the assumptions you make. The other side feels no guilt, right? YOU and those on your side are the only ones who feel noble emotions? ... In case you aren't seeing it, my point is not to defend this man [who killed Bhutto]. It's to stress how similar your mentality is to his. Your reasons to torture are no better than his reasons to murder."
So, Hero, how exactly is your willingness to torture and kill different than the willingness of some guy in Pakistan to kill Bhutto?
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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
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Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
So, Hero, how exactly is your willingness to torture and kill different than the willingness of some guy in Pakistan to kill Bhutto?
Methinks you are generalizing far too much IMHO.
Correct me if I'm wrong but you see no difference between aggressive ingterrogation of POW's and deliberate acts of terrorism against civillian targets? Does the fact that the POW's had AK-47's in their hands at one time where as Bhutto did not make any difference to you? Is context really that unimportant to your worldview?
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Quote:Oh geez. We've been over this. I can't quote the entire thread every time I post! OK, but I was out for a few days. So I'll sum up.
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
So, Hero, how exactly is your willingness to torture and kill different than the willingness of some guy in Pakistan to kill Bhutto?
Methinks you are generalizing far too much IMHO.
Correct me if I'm wrong but you see no difference between aggressive ingterrogation of POW's and deliberate acts of terrorism against civillian targets? Does the fact that the POW's had AK-47's in their hands at one time where as Bhutto did not make any difference to you? Is context really that unimportant to your worldview?
Hero said that "maybe a little harsh interrogation could have prevented this." He suggests we should cast a broad net - regarding the people we should interrogate harshly:
"I'm not saying they were involved in the attack. I'm saying that they know somebody, who knows somebody, who knows Kevin Bacon, who knows the bomb maker."
Though he hasn't admitted to changing his mind, Hero seems to be backing off the 'broad net' a bit. He's now leaning toward sticking to specific cases, like when we know the bad guy holds a specific bit of information, such as the oft occurring case of Mr. Spy beating the nuclear bomb's deactivation code out of the villian. Oh wait - was that on TV? Silly me, it doesn't matter! TV, real life... same thing!
Anyway, Hero has made the following claims:
- if waterboarding makes you sick, you are childish
- the bad guys are easily recognizable because they feel no remorse
- if you are not willing to die and to kill for your cause, your cause is destined to fail
Is this not what the leaders of any terrorist organisation would preach?
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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
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Hero, Finn, Geezer, and Auraptor seem to think that if you feel 'noble enough' it doesn't matter so much what you actually do.
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Always look upstream.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I always thought Bhutto got a raw deal every time from Popeye. Bhutto was hard working and industrious, and he loved Olive dearly....but that Popeye punk had a seceret stash of the Spinach performance-enhancing drug to always defeat Bhutto and win back Olive....huh?...what's that? Bluto you say?...Oh, sorry!
I just reread this thread and this was the only post I found that was insightful and caused me to really think. I always thought that Bluto was the bad guy, but now it I understand his motivation was pure. I always liked Bluto and now I know why.
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What a Harris or Trump Presidency Could Mean for Pakistan
https://thediplomat.com/2024/07/what-a-harris-or-trump-presidency-coul
d-mean-for-pakistan/
Bhutto had previously survived a similar attempt on her life two months earlier in the 2007 Karsaz bombing that killed at least 180 people. Adnkronos an Italian news agency claimed that al-Qaeda second-in-command Ayman al-Zawahiri ordered the killing in October 2007. U.S. intelligence officials said that they couldn't confirm this claim of responsibility. Nonetheless, U.S. analysts said that al-Qaeda was a likely, or even a prime suspect. The UN was asked to send a team to dispel a conspiracy theory that claimed that Zardari himself had orchestrated his wife's death, a notion most analysts dismissed because of absence of any concrete evidence. Basically the UN team's mandate was to "establish the facts and circumstances of the assassination" and not to undertake a criminal investigation, which remained responsibility of the Pakistani authorities. In a letter which she wrote to Musharraf on the 16th day of October 2007, Bhutto named four persons who were involved in an alleged plot to kill her: current Intelligence Bureau (IB) Chief Ijaz Shah, former chief minister of Punjab Chaudhry Pervaiz Elahi, former chief minister of Sindh Arbab Ghulam Rahim, and the former ISI chief, Hamid Gul, as those who posed a threat to her life. British newspaper The Times suggested that elements within the Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence with close ties to Islamists might have been behind the killing, and it also asserted that it is unlikely that Musharraf would have ordered the assassination. , Scotland on Sunday quoted MI5 sources stated that factions of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence may have been responsible for the assassination. A Pakistani court indicted two police officers in connection with Bhutto's assassination, among them, the former police chief of Rawalpindi.
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Pakistan declares victory over India...
https://x.com/EndGameWW3/status/1921272380501946588
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"I don't find this stuff amusing anymore." ~Paul Simon
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Nine Killed as Violent Mob Storms US Consulate in Pakistan's Karachi After Khamenei's Death
https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/violent-mob-storms-us-consula
te-in-pakistan-s-karachi-sets-building-on-fire-after-khamenei-s-death
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