Finding realistic sci-fi disappointing
POSTED BY: MerryK
UPDATED: Tuesday, January 14, 2025 07:02
VIEWED: 10003
PAGE 4 of 5
Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:
What's so threatening about having tons of money and spreading it around so that less fortunate people can be helped out?
I suspect that the people currently in posession of the tons of money would have an opinion on that
Whatever - if you had Federation-level technology that gives you effectively unlimited resources and eliminates the need for unskilled labour, then capitalism could only be maintained artifically by arbitrary laws restricting access to resources and technology. Of course, the transition would be Interesting Times. You can see it in microcosm in the IT world at the moment now that the cost of "manufacturing" (as opposed to designing) software has become negligible - we're seeing the rise of "open source" software on one hand, and on the other hand, draconian measures to stop illicit copying and a propaganda campaign to get copyright infringement equated with theft.
Quote:
Next decade, it could be stand-alone shows that are more fun and that are created by the fans themselves, with online polls calling the shots and the direction of the actors. Who knows?
Ugh - I hope not. I want stories written by people who have a gift for storytelling. To papraphrase Ben Elton: "The ancient Greeks could have had interactive entertainment in their theatres - all they had to do was hop up on the stage and join in - but they were clever enough to realize that would totally
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Quote:
Originally posted by SameErtia:
I don't think it's a "generational" thing or an 'age' thing.
I think it's a personal preference. I love ST TNG, and I loved the first couple seasons of DS9. But once DS9 became that long, conflict ridden, battle-scenario, I lost interest. Same thing with X-Files- loved it up until every episode tied to the the alien conspiracy arc.
Partly it's because I have a busy life and can't always see every episode every week. If I miss one ep of BSG, I'm out of the loop for the entire season until they rerun it.
It's also because as someone who struggles with depression, I NEED a happy ending. I need to know that bad things end, not go on and on and on and on forever.
Actually, I'm seeing it with "Eureka", too. I loved the first season, and am enjoying this season, but I can see that the Artifact arc is going darker places and stretching further and further. So far, I love what's happening, but I can see that it may soon get to the point where every episode is somehow going to tie to the artifact arc. *shrug*
Just my two cents worth.
Bingo. Even now, people are too busy. In the early decades of TV, it was more often the case.
Reagrding another post, when Star Trek was aired, it was banned in the South because Spock had pointy ears, thus representing SATAN.
And, although Dallas was a soap opera before Who Shot J.R.? Twin Peaks' Who Killed Laura Palmer was obviously derivative.
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Quote:
Originally posted by MerryK:
Been pondering on this some…
I guess there are pros and cons -
In a story telling sense it’s very satisfying to get a sense of resolution at the end of a show - and there aint nuthin wrong with just wanting to tell a good story (Twilight Zone, nuff said). In the 60's, Star Trek often did this well - though the inevitable Spock, McCoy, Kirk humour banter which signals the resolution of an episode gets damn repetitive. (Look we've laughed off this weeks Play - now you can forget about it till the next show* . This kinda deal goes back to the Elizabethan theatre.)
But on the other hand there are things that get left behind - as a modern viewer we’re now used to narrative and character arcs that develop and progress through the run of a show (and Joss is a key player in making this the new norm - especially through Angel).
I therefore watch 60s Star Trek now and it's disappointing in this respect -
Kirk gets two tiny arcs, in Where No Man has Gone Before (he is not the same man come the end of the episode as when he began it) and in the gap between the show and The Motion Picture (where he has become obsessive and introverted compared to his former self, so too Spock). -
and Next Gen positively infuriating as Picard (in the final season alone) endures -among many incidents - torture and two serious relationships (including the resultant birth of his child) and a bereavement - only to wake each following week apparently ignorant as to just where everyone has gone before.
Deep Space Nine was a little better in this respect, (and, to me, it was a far superior show) as Sisko grew and developed in major ways - before the dreadful "i’m gonna walk the earth" conclusion. But the other characters less so. Kira changed - in some indefinable way, after meeting her dark self in the mirror episode (fantastic show! - uh, 'homaged' a fair bit by buffy) but that was about it.
As for the X-Files, it’s a measure of the actors' talents that the wobbly over-story held together at all - and that the lack of development in the characters actually felt at times like the reverse. Dayna gets a bit less sceptical; Scully gets a bit more obsessed. It was also just so well made - for a while.
Of course - these are character arcs and a lack of development in personality and narrative is not germane simply to sci-fi. Dr Kildare never had an over reaching storyline (but it still holds up as a show - check out the abortion episode!) or character progression compared to ER today, nor did MASH, or The Hulk - not The Invaders nor The Prisoner, nor Columbo, nor Kung Fu, ALL of which I have a soft spot for. But if these shows were re-made today - it would be expected, even it was just a big decorative bluff - look at Heroes.
Is character development realistic? Not necessarily - I admire BSG for using an over story to drive the show while keeping character development to a minimum, it’s almost retro! But - equally it can be frustrating when after yet more trauma the characters don’t seem to develop even as the narrative twists and turns. But - would we?
Of course, the search for Earth - like Kimble looking for the one armed man - is a McGuffin. (sp?) and shows often get cancelled before any kind of resolution is possible. Architect David Vincent is still out there screaming ‘They’re here already!’… Logan is still running* *, The Littlest Hobo too etc. It can be extremely annoying if the show finishes before its time - think 'Millennium' or 'Tru-Calling' - but it often shows the meta-story for the fraud it is.
Genuine narrative resolution and a show with character arcs always was (and still is) rare. In sci-fi, Blake's 7 , for all its sins, was actually a breakthrough and some sort of template (Chris Boucher should get some credit there) - look at 'FarScape' to see the influence - compare it to 'Dr Who' where The Timelord and his companions never developed (except very subtly with Dr 5 Peter Davison after his companion’s death) and where there was hardly eve
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Quote:
Originally posted by wytchcroft:
Deep Space Nine was a little better in this respect, (and, to me, it was a far superior show) as Sisko grew and developed in major ways - before the dreadful "i’m gonna walk the earth" conclusion. But the other characters less so. Kira changed - in some indefinable way, after meeting her dark self in the mirror episode (fantastic show! - uh, 'homaged' a fair bit by buffy) but that was about it.
Kira grew from an angry Bajoran ex-rebel who hated the Federation, didn't want anything to do with non Bajorans, and thought the only Cardassian was a dead Cardassian, to one of the Federation's staunchest supporters, and ultimately a Starfleet Officer. She develops interspecies friendships and romances, even coming to stand against the more radical elements of her own people. She learns to forgive and even respect Cardassians (mainly thanks to Marritza [who made himself a martyr to shame his people into accepting guilt] Ghemor [her Cardassian "father"] and Ziyal), and even stands proudly beside the Cardassian resistance during the Dominion War.
Bashir grew from being a dandyish fop, ashamed of his own Augment heritage into a polished officer, fully comfortable with his uniqueness.
O'Brien has wrestled constantly with family and duty, and his decision to return to Earth at the end of the War is a clear change from his career-motivated jump to DS9 (the post-finale novels make it even more clear, when O'Brien decides to follow Keiko's career for a change, and ends up coming up against the racism he's been nurturing since his time on the Rutledge).
Dax grew from Starfleet's "wild child" to a dedicated wife for Worf, and then was reborn as Ezri, a skittish young rookie who quickly came to peace with her newly Joined nature and grew into an able officer.
Worf developed from a dour and humourless block of wood into a more well-rounded and relaxed person --he seemed far happier on DS9 than he ever did on Enterprise. Ultimately, he learned that his human and Klingon natures didn't need to be in opposition.
Odo discovered his history, and with it the source of his rigid sense of decorum. This made him learn how to relax and find love with Kira.
Of course, there's Rom, who grew from timid, incompetent buffoon to a skilled engineer and troubleshooter (and Grand Nagus), after learning not to listen to other peoples' put-downs.
Nog grew from a delinquent into a fine Starfleet officer. Jake grew from a teenager trailing after his father to a young man making his own way in the universe (deciding not to join Starfleet was the best choice he could've made).
Quark developed from a one-dimensional model of avarice into a well-rounded commentary on what's truly valuable (the Bar will never make him rich, but he likes it there).
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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
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I am not sure this is a age or a generational thing at all. I suspect that if you polled 100 people who do not like the show you might get the same response from an assortment of age ranges.
I personally am 57 years old and not a big fan of the show either. On the other hand I loved (still love since I own the series) LaFemme Nikita, Forever Knight and Highlander...none of which were particularly tidy or episodic. I also am an unabashed Trekker. I also find my self enjoying the Sarah Conner Chronicals though I have never been a Terminator fan. I suspect that the things I love have more to do with stories written in a fashion that connect to people on some more primal level. I do agree that the common thread I tend to see in the things I love forever and ever is some form of humor...even if it is the kind that only appears funny to those of us with a twisted/noir type sense of the ridiculous. To each their own I say and isn't it shiney that we all have a variety of choices.
gentle journey all,
twilight seeker
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"Dear you live on a spaceship"...."So."
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Writing a better reality: The case for optimistic sci-fi
https://honisoit.com/2022/03/writing-a-better-reality-the-case-for-opt
imistic-sci-fi/
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OP and her mother must HATE any Star Trek that has come out in the last 10 years.
I HIGHLY recommend watching the last few minutes of this starting at 1:25:38 to any fans of Star Trek.
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Me: "Remember Covid?"
Useless Idiots: "What's Covid, durr? Russia, Ukraine, Putin, NATO *drool*. DURRRR!!!!"
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I for one loved Jadzia's iconoclast tendencies; oh, she could be utterly professional, the model Starfleet officer, when the chips were down - but the rest of the time she was a woman who truly loved life, and didn't care who knew it, and was never afraid to show it.
[somewhat O/T] In the ST:TNG fanfic I'm writing I introduce an homage to Jadzia, a female Vulcan/Human hybrid, T'Sara; she's Starfleet's Chief Of Staff, i.e. just one level below the C-in-C. She's 6'3", gorgeous, iconoclastic to the max...and a redhead.
(That wasn't supposed to happen; the Vulcan genetics team who helped create her from the genetic material of T'Kir and Malcolm McAndrews were as surprised as anyone by the vivid ginger locks the newborn girl sported. Even with the targeted genetic manipulation necessary for interspecies breeding, you can still get surprises. It's still a crapshoot...with hundreds of buckyball dice. Anything can happen.)
She is also adamant in her refusal to follow Vulcan customs. She snogs and even bonks in public (just once). She's taken a female lover to her bed as well as Picard. She's not vegetarian (though in 2381 real meat is obtained by cloning, not butchery). While undergoing a psych evaluation forced on her by a Vulcan admiral, she turns up to each session stark naked, arguing that since she's not on duty she's not obliged to wear a uniform...until one poor cadet doesn't know where to look, trips over his own feet and falls down a flight of stairs.
(Hey. He's 18, and a virgin. What 18-year-old lad wouldn't gawk at such a vision?)
She'll quite happily get drunk, laugh at the antics of a litter of kittens, and cry if she's watching a tearjerker or listening to Stranger On The Shore (actually, I do - I cannot listen to it if I'm even slightly depressed).
She'll also quite willingly get mad with the best of 'em. As Spock showed in This Side Of Paradise and Amok Time, you do not want to piss off a Vulcan. There's a reason they keep such a tight grip on their emotions.
[/slightly O/T] Ahem. I wholly agree about DS9; all its regular characters grew over those 7 seasons, Kira the most. In Emissary she'd have laughed at the idea of fighting for Cardassians instead of against them - then she'd have likely clocked you one. As for Ezri - Jadzia was sexy (I loved that lezzie kiss in Rejoined, they really swapped spit there!), but Ezri, oh, she was so cuuuuuuuuuute!
Sorry, I have a weakness for two feminine physical types: short and cute, or tall and leggy.
(Mmm...was it really lezzie if Dax used to be Torias, a man?)
I still think Firefly was in fact realistic; there were echoes of Heinlein's Time Enough For Love, specifically the section about Dora and their journey to Happy Valley. In an age of FTL starships they were travelling in covered wagons. Why? Because on that planet there was no existing infrastructure, a key point which Firefly's critics seem to miss. Heinlein didn't. Nor did Joss.
Horses and wagons made of wood are much cheaper to obtain and run than shuttles or cargo haulers, and don't need fuel (other than grass, and, hey, they might find grass en route, so saving even that cost. Shiny.). Such colonisation efforts might well be run on a shoestring, especially given a lack of Alliance support.
Guns, too - slug-throwers are reasonably cheap, whereas lasers are expensive, hard to maintain and harder to keep charged - we all remember ol' Rance Burgess, don't we? :)
Firefly was real SF - sorry, but as a follower of the David Gerrold mindset I refuse to use the term 'sci-fi'. For a true aficionado of the genre, SF is the proper term. :)
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I loved DS9.
Ezri was a badass little pixie. 
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Me: "Remember Covid?"
Useless Idiots: "What's Covid, durr? Russia, Ukraine, Putin, NATO *drool*. DURRRR!!!!"
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Speaking of Star Trek, I just heard last night that they made idiot racist Stacey Abrams the President of United Earth for the season four finale.
I wasn't surprised at all how out of touch all of these people are and how they wouldn't get the joke they supplied to all of us there.
What I did find surprising was that the were still making new episodes of STD. I thought that drek got cancelled years ago.
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Me: "Remember Covid?"
Useless Idiots: "What's Covid, durr? Russia, Ukraine, Putin, NATO *drool*. DURRRR!!!!"
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