FINALLY! Biden goes after Israel!!!

Oddly enough, KPO, if you go back somewhat further, before the Irgun and whatnot, they weren't near as bad as history makes em out to be *at that point*, since most of the history up till then was written by the christians who persecuted them, and therefore loaded with it's own justifications, many of them questionable in their veracity.

I mean, hell, look at how all three beliefs got on in concert and peace in Medina once Mohammed wrote the Medina Compact as a set of guidelines for living together without conflict, something which I think could, and should, be brought up as a current issue since it's tied deeply into the history and culture of all three beliefs and fully compatible with them - if we'd quit playin favorites and get behind a NEW Medina Compact we could probably get all but the worst fanatics on board because of that religious compatibility and just how deeply religion influences culture of the people in question.

And yes, the lot of jews did suck, often as not caught up in a lot of bullshit going on and without even the military might to be an active participant, at least during the crusades the muslim cultures could field powerful military forces - and much of the time did shelter persecuted jews as well, which I have noted.

And that in part seems to have lead to a certain cultural and social paranoia, which the Likud and other factions amplifies and plays on to keep power, and has gone to a place I think qualifies as a form of national insanity - but yanno, I don't feel sorry for their government, but their *people* ?

A little, although not much given how rare refuseniks are - there's a certain courage in NOT pulling a trigger too, as I have pointed out regarding a certain nameless tank driver in Tiananmen Square that day - and while I comprehend the level of cultural paranoia and indoctrination involved in this, comes a time when "just following orders" is no defense.

Same for the other side, cause just as you have the Likud stroking fear and paranioa to keep in power and then throwing poor shleps who mostly don't know any better into the fray to keep the bodycount going, so too do you have muslim leaders on the other side doing exactly the same goddamn thing, and those bastards NEED each other, cause each one keeps the other in power, and they damn well know it.

And the ones that suffer worst are the poor dumb bastards destined from the cradle to be cannon fodder to one or the other, and yeah, I do feel sorry for THEM, maybe not as much as I should, but I do - the leaders, not so much.

While there's been some progress on that kind of crap in Afghanistan via supporting literacy through RAWA (and subsequently showing them what the Quaran *really* says about some of those actions, cause it's got some strong words about mistreatment of prisoners, women and noncombatants) - given the IDF's habit of blowing the damned schools up I dunno how effective that'd be in Palestine.

Anyhows, some might call that limited sympathy callous, but one might also recall that is coming from someone who even as an emotionally stunted, nihilistic seventeen year old kid who had just lost the greater part of his family, and was LOOKING for a rationale to commit sanctioned slaughter - when handed the now-infamous twentynine palms survey decided "No, I will *not* kill someone over this, not for you, not for anyone." and wrecked what might have been a promising military career on the spot.

So my sympathies for those without the moral courage to refuse to pull a trigger, aren't that great - sorry, but there it is.

Charged as this issue is, I've been as rational as possible about it, and while that's maybe less than some would like, it's a damn sight better than most folk ever manage, yanno ?

So some cred for tryin here, willya ?

-F

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Well the Palestinians are protesting and the rest of the Islamic world are watching to see what Obama does with this settlement issue. I hope he makes a stand and shows Israel that we are going to stop supporting these acts of aggression.

It is time someone took their sword and pounded it into a plowshare. There is a need to construct peace between Israel and Palestine, not contruct 16,000 more habitats for Israelis on Palestine land.

I would rather see Israel make the gesture without us pushing them, but if requires us to get tough then we should start cutting our support.


http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Quote:

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And that in part seems to have lead to a certain cultural and social paranoia, which the Likud and other factions amplifies and plays on to keep power

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This to me is just pretty standard right wing reactionary politics, not specific to Israel - only Israel's circumstances are specific.

You wish Israelis would disassociate with their government and military more? The military has preserved the survival of the nation on more than one occasion. Just because the country is paranoid doesn't mean there aren't people out there trying to kill them...

To my mind Israel needs peace-loving conscientious people *in* its army, not as objectors - to preserve a culture of respect for civilian life within the military, and also to provide accountability if there are orders from on high that are unethical.

But I guess you probably view the actions of Israel's military in a darker light than I do. And I can understand where you're coming from with your view of Israel having a kind of 'national insanity'... don't personally buy it though. It's when criticism of Israel strays into meditations on the 'Jewish nature' that I think we have to be alarmed - like acts of violence and barbarism are specific to just one group of humanity?

That said, I do think some cultures are more militant and warlike than others (like Prussian, and pre-WW2 Japanese?), and I do believe we have to be allowed to point it out when it's the case. Religion, as we know, is one volatile cultural ingredient that can inspire war. But the historical argument for the Jewish people being violent is just not there for me, and I don't think it's a factor to be included in the story of the Holocaust.

Heads should roll

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Originally posted by kpo:
I can understand people's anger at present day Israel and its actions - Frem, I can't understand your (apparent?) anger at Jews throughout history... What have they done besides being ousted from their native land and living as conspicuous minority in intolerant foreign countries - and generally being the whipping boy of history?

I kind of agree with Mincing: to me, some of those words were dripping with anti-semitism - perhaps fresh from a place you've been swimming recently, some reading material with an anti-jewish message perhaps?

Be careful with this - for people who feel the system is failing and rotten, blaming the unseen hand of 'world jewry' is the oldest, most seductive explanation in the book.

Heads should roll

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I watched a history channel program that had the Jewish folk, shortly after leaving Egypt wiping out the populations of several groups in order to seize their land...

Only have that show as a source... never really looked further into it.

A different history channel program explored the theory the Jewish folk in Egypt were not slaves, but mercenarys employed by the Pharaohs to keep the slaves under control... the theory went they had a bit of a contract dispute, raided the Pharaoh taking what they considered their back pay by force, and marched east to escape...

Not an area of history I am really familiar with,

anyone have more of a in depth knowledge ?

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Team Biden’s nuke-deal talks are positively absurd after Iran’s latest deadly attack

https://nypost.com/2021/08/06/team-bidens-nuke-deal-talks-are-positive
ly-absurd/

Quote:

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
That's not actually new, you know, Mohammed pulled it off in Medina back in 622AD.

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What is it with you always pushing for open borders and defending mohammedanism and camel jacker terrorist pedophiles?

You see to share a lot with this man who called himself a prophet including sending your fellow Americans 'Death Threats' if they dare might vote the wrong way

Think of Moohammad as a Joe Stalin, Hitler, a Slaver a Jeffery Epstein...I know Americans get obsessed over muh Constitutions Rights
but think of 'Constitution of Medina'
as something that would round up Joe Stalin's useful idiots
and even make the idiots open their borders to the Orc Goblin horde


btw
are you claiming islamism is Democratic now?

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FINALLY! Biden goes after Israel!!!

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Oh yeah? How's that one going 11 years later?

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

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absurd talks they say after latest deadly attack

how long has clownworld existed

...and Iraq took the blame for 911?

Release Details of Saudi Involvement or Stay Away From Memorials, 9/11 Families Tell Biden

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2021/08/06/release-details-saudi-inv
olvement-or-stay-away-memorials-911-families-tell-biden

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'Biden Administration Offers Weak Response to Israel’s Right Wing Shakeup'

https://truthout.org/articles/biden-administration-offers-weak-respons
e-to-israels-right-wing-shakeup/

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