Sheep, baaaaaaah, baaah bah!

POSTED BY: AngusThermopyle
UPDATED: Friday, June 8, 2007 16:23
VIEWED: 39947
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ZOID

Saturday, January 1, 2005 7:33 AM

Mmmm-a-lishus wrote:

Quote:
Zoid, he didn't take the bait! What is WRONG with these new-fangled trolls?...

Yeah... Either I'm losing my touch, or the lowest common denominator's redshift is still growing.

Disconcertedly,

zoid

P.S.
At least AngusT's subsequent posts are less insultingly dismissive than his first, thanks to others on this board taking the high road. I never can seem to find the on-ramp for that damned road. Check and see if that map is under your seat, Mal...

P.P.S.
Happy '05, Fellow Browncoats!

CAPNRAHN

Saturday, January 1, 2005 9:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
Yeah. It is sad. However, it's one of those behavior changes I chose to make to simplify things. It all stemmed from some message board posting I was doing a couple of years ago (not here) where I would continually see humor, and specifically sarcasm, being taken seriously and resulting in long drawn out arguments before a resolution was reached. Some other posters started using tags to identify humor and that seemed to work out pretty well but I still argued with myself for a long time before I adopted it.

SoupCatcher! Did you post over on the RPF {Replica Prop Forum} years ago?! Sounds VERY like that place when a certain lawyer went spastic ... and if you have never been there - consider yourself blessed!

"Remember, there is only ONE absolute - There ARE NO absolutes!!!"

MALICIOUS

Saturday, January 1, 2005 1:15 PM

Zoid,

I, myself, am off on the shoulder of that high road...hood up....white shirt tied to the antennae...hazard lights blinking...as evidenced by the "bite me" comment. (shrug) I just can't help it!

Mal-licious

Co-Holder of the Red Bell from Hell

HOTPOINT

Saturday, January 1, 2005 1:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by terryo:
I had a classic spit-take moment when I read the comment below.

And my secondary goal of showing that fans of classical literature are in reality just as tetchy and obsessive as SF Fans is achieved

Quote:
Originally posted by terryo:

Against my better judgment (you know, that whole thing about fanning flames and feeding trolls) I would like to point out that famous actors seek out Shakespearian roles because it validates _their talent

I wasn't really trolling I was advocating an unpopular opinion in response to the citation of "Shakespear" by AugustusThermopyle as an apparent example of superior literature.

Quote:
Originally posted by terryo:

But no matter how hard all the English teachers and literature professors in the world might try, Shakespeare would have died out long ago if the plays didn't deliver what an audience wants.

Once again I will reiterate the point that believing Shakespeare is overated is not the same as a holding a strident belief he is bad.

Quote:
Originally posted by terryo:
but if you think Shakespeare is overrated, then you obviously haven't seen it done right. The angst, the stupidity, the pratfalls, the venality, the rare act of nobility, he nailed the human heart.

I've seen Shakespeare performed by the RSC that good enough for you? I see all of the above by the way and I still maintain he is overated.

Quote:
Originally posted by terryo:

If Shakespeare is overrated, why do actors and directors itch to get their chance to interpret him?

Because it has become the yardstick used to measure performances against, actors and directors who wish to be taken seriously are forced to comply with the majority opinion that in order to be respected they must do Shakespeare. There really is a huge element of peer-pressure behind it all, one reason why Patrick Stewarts career so successfully survived Star Trek is that as a "proper actor" who performed Shakespeare on stage he was automatically taken more seriously.

Quote:
Originally posted by terryo:

Funny, though, I agree that Citizen Kane is overrated.

Nice to know we agree on something, besides Firefly or course

...................................
Hurrah, hurrah, when things are at their worst
With cries of “Death or Glory” comes the mighty Twenty-First

MSCKAREN

Saturday, January 1, 2005 2:36 PM

Quote:

one reason why Patrick Stewarts career so successfully survived Star Trek is that as a "proper actor" who performed Shakespeare on stage he was automatically taken more seriously.

And I thought all he needed was the British accent.

Besides, if we're going to argue about Shakespeare or Shakespear, please give credit where credit is due. Everybody knows Queen Elizabeth wrote his best stuff!

Now the bigger question is, "What interdimensional demon is giving Whedon all that inside information?"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Appears they've canceled the show and we're still here. What does that make us?"
"Big damn junkies, Sir!"
"Ain't we just."

TERRYO

Saturday, January 1, 2005 5:51 PM

And here I thought it was the Earl of Oxford. {ducking and running for cover}

(sigh) Big damn junkies is right. I do believe I might be coming to terms with the fact that there isn't going to be any new Firefly for 9 long months and that I might actually have to get my angst fix somewhere else.

Shakespeare at least has some socially redeeming value - it's the same guilty pleasure without the stigma of having a HL Methos marathon - or rewatching the Blakes 7 finale again.

terry

Quote:
Originally posted by msckaren:

Besides, if we're going to argue about Shakespeare or Shakespear, please give credit where credit is due. Everybody knows Queen Elizabeth wrote his best stuff!

Now the bigger question is, "What interdimensional demon is giving Whedon all that inside information?"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Appears they've canceled the show and we're still here. What does that make us?"
"Big damn junkies, Sir!"
"Ain't we just."

TERRYO

Saturday, January 1, 2005 6:57 PM

I'll give you that. {ouch} OTOH, I don't want to waste my precious free time with stuff that doesn't push my obsessive button.

Other than Firefly, what pushes your buttons?

Normal people don't tend to be all that impressed with Joss, either. Joss fans tend to like snappy/snippy dialog and for that you can't beat Shakespeare - well, Shaw and Oscar Wilde can do it, too, but they don't have quite the same range.

I don't have to pretend to like Shakespeare because of peer pressure. Everyone I know gratefully ditched Shakespeare after high school or college. The SF fans actually get more respect around here, even ones with pointy ears or light sabers in tow.

The RSC doesn't impress me much. (Crud, now I have Shania Twain running through my head.) The reason I mentioned the SSE is that most of them are young, enthusiastic actors in love with the material and it shows. There isn't a fake suck-up, stuck-up attitude in any of their productions and again, it shows. The actors have to sell t-shirts after the show for crying out loud. You can't do that without passion.

The truth is that when Shakespeare was alive (no matter who he or she was) he was considered a hack writng trash for the masses. Which is probably why I like it. {g} And if the actors aren't getting that across, then they aren't doing it right. Period.

Or you could be letting anti-elitist snobbery keep you from enjoying it. {g}

I can even agree that there is an element of peer pressure in the entertainment industry but bottom line, it takes love to adapt Shakespeare for film, otherwise it doesn't work. I can think of a few films that cast big names for big names sake and it shows.

If it makes you feel better, I think lots of writers are overrated - Faulkner and Hemingway are two of my pet peeves. And don't get me started on some of the NY Times picks...

terry (who isn't trying to insult any Hemingway fans and feels guilty about sidetracking the thread which actually raised some interesting issues)

Quote:
Originally posted by Hotpoint:
Quote:
Originally posted by terryo:
I had a classic spit-take moment when I read the comment below.

And my secondary goal of showing that fans of classical literature are in reality just as tetchy and obsessive as SF Fans is achieved

{snipped}

Quote:
Originally posted by terryo:
but if you think Shakespeare is overrated, then you obviously haven't seen it done right. The angst, the stupidity, the pratfalls, the venality, the rare act of nobility, he nailed the human heart.

I've seen Shakespeare performed by the RSC that good enough for you? I see all of the above by the way and I still maintain he is overated.

{more snipping}

TERRYO

Saturday, January 1, 2005 8:09 PM

So, I'm rereading my latest posts and realized that for me the real point is that if someone thinks Shakespeare is overrated - then what isn't? And that verse must be a cold and black place to live in.

Come to think of it, Mal would probably agree with you.

terry

Quote:
Originally posted by Hotpoint:

Once again I will reiterate the point that believing Shakespeare is overated is not the same as a holding a strident belief he is bad.

GUILDSISTER

Saturday, January 1, 2005 8:12 PM

Quote:
Guildsister said: While I'm sure quite a few of us have 'alters' to Joss, I suspect very few have altars.

Urp! Uh... I may have to reconsider this statement. You know, just perusing the way I have my dvd collection arranged, and, uh, seven seasons of Buffy lined up next to four of Angel, with the Fireflys... Altar to Joss...? Hmmm... I mean baaaa...

But I don't have Alien Resurrection. So there!

Guildsister

MALICIOUS

Sunday, January 2, 2005 12:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Guildsister:
Quote:
But I don't have Alien Resurrection. So there!

Oh, CRAP! I DO!! I was being all superior, thinking, "I do not have an altar to Joss Whedon" when I actually do. Damnit. I'm a sheep too, I guess. Hey Haken? Can we get us a wooly ewe icon please?

Mal-licious

Co-Holder of the Red Bell from Hell

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