The Battle for Iraq - Ethnic Cleansing
POSTED BY: Ghoulman
UPDATED: Sunday, June 22, 2025 01:22
VIEWED: 23789
PAGE 12 of 18
So, the US is only barely letting in medical help over a week after the fighting "died down" and they are still picking up bodies.
Remember - The USA gassed civilians, it's been reported.
UN fears for refugees who fled attack on Falluja
Rory McCarthy in Baghdad
Friday December 3, 2004
The Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1365163,00.html
Aid agencies and UN officials are growing increasingly concerned about the fate of more than 200,000 Iraqis who fled their homes before the US-led assault on Falluja.
At least 210,000 Iraqis are now living as refugees in deteriorating conditions and are unlikely to be able to return to their badly damaged city for several weeks, according to reports compiled by a UN-led emergency working group.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Remember - The USA gassed civilians, it's been reported.
Remember - Elvis is alive and living with aliens in Area 51, its been reported.
H
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
The War on Drugs, for example, has done little but waste billions of your tax dollars, destroyed countless families, and put millions in US jails in what amounts to political imprisonment.
Gotta agree with ya on that one Ghoul. Too many folks in jail for using. Temperance never worked.
Personally, it would've made more sense to legalize it and regulate it. Folks die by the 1000's everyday from cigarettes..and they are legal. Hell, folks die every day from second hand smoke and cigs are still legal.
As for wars never solving anything. I disagree. Some wars solve problems. It's the foolish wars that don't solve anything. I look forward to my friends coming home from Iraq safe and sound. I support them for the job they are doing. One of my best friends is home now after almost losing his life. He is not adjusting as well as would be hoped. He almost lost his marriage due to the difficulties that arise from dealing with a horrific injury and the psychological damage that they caused as well. He's doing better now, but it still leaves a heavy mark on me to know how close I came to losing a good friend, just so we could establish a base to attack Iran, (The true reason we went into Iraq IMHO).
I look upon Iraq now more as a poorly timed and poorly thought out war. Did the Iraqi's need help? Absolutely! Did we need to help the Iraqi's remove Saddam? Absolutely! Did we need to have the support of the world? Yes..and to a degree we did. Though not the support we should have had to truly make the mission successful. Did we have a plan to help the Iraqis and deal with the ethnic divisions that exist due to 40 years of tyranny once we got Saddam out of power? Not so much. With the major combat over, I hope to see more countries come on board to help Iraq adjust to the new found liberty, and find a way to mend ties between the various factions.
I hope all the world has the opportunity to someday experience the freedoms I have come to know and take for granted.
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This from Thomas Friedman of the NY times.
Notice the paragraphs dedicated to the Lancet article....
Admittedly, the security situation is dire, but look at these figures. In October, the number of Iraqis killed was 775 from acts of war and murder; American troops suffered 63 casualties and 691 wounded. This is too many, but at a time of a major military offensive against insurgents, those numbers are not gigantic.
Or how about the constantly cited figure of 100,000 Iraqis killed by Americans since the war began, a statistic thrown about with total and irresponsible abandon by war opponents. That number, which should be disputed at every turn by those who care about the truth of what is going on in Iraq, came from a controversial study by the British journal of medicine The Lancet (search).
It is five to six times higher than the highest estimates from other sources of all Iraqi deaths, either military or civilian. The Lancet study relied on reporting of deaths self-reported by 998 families from clusters of 33 households throughout Iraq, a very limited sample from which to generalize.
As a recent article in the Financial Times reported on Nov. 19, even the Lancet study’s authors are now having second thoughts. Iraq’s Health Ministry estimates by comparison that all told, 3,853 Iraqis have been killed and 15,517 wounded.
The fact is that 40 percent of Iraqis say their country is better off since the war, and 65 percent are optimistic about the future. Iraqis are intending to vote in the upcoming elections to the tune of 85 percent, and 45 percent currently support Prime Minister Ayad Allawi. Many are unhappy with the U.S. troops' presence there, but at least 35 percent want the United States to stay.
We still have a rocky road ahead, beyond doubt, but these figures do not add up to the unmitigated failure that critics of the Bush administration have been painting.
Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.
BarnStormer
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Couple of comments
It is a dodge of the right to label anything they don't like as "controversial". It's easy to raise controversy, just look at Ken Star- he was a master of making something out of nothing. The method used in the Lancet to estimate the number if Iraqi dead is the same method used to estimate the number of dead in Kosovo and Rwanda, and I didn't hear any objections raised then.
The other point is that the Iraq’s Health Ministry has already been caught fudging estimates. The instance where they were caught was in the first abortive invasion of Fallujah; it wasn't until the US military told the IHM to report the REAL numbers at Fallujha that they did so. This allowed the Iraq Body Count (IBC) to "resolve discrepancies" (I've referenced the link to this further up in this thread.) That tells me a couple of things: (1) The IHM reports to the US military, and (2) the IHM prolly fudges numbers routinely.
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Quote:
Originally posted by BarnStormer:
This from Thomas Friedman of the NY times.
Notice the paragraphs dedicated to the Lancet article....
Admittedly, the security situation is dire, but look at these figures. In October, the number of Iraqis killed was 775 from acts of war and murder; American troops suffered 63 casualties and 691 wounded. This is too many, but at a time of a major military offensive against insurgents, those numbers are not gigantic.
Or how about the constantly cited figure of 100,000 Iraqis killed by Americans since the war began, a statistic thrown about with total and irresponsible abandon by war opponents. That number, which should be disputed at every turn by those who care about the truth of what is going on in Iraq, came from a controversial study by the British journal of medicine The Lancet (search).
It is five to six times higher than the highest estimates from other sources of all Iraqi deaths, either military or civilian. The Lancet study relied on reporting of deaths self-reported by 998 families from clusters of 33 households throughout Iraq, a very limited sample from which to generalize.
As a recent article in the Financial Times reported on Nov. 19, even the Lancet study’s authors are now having second thoughts. Iraq’s Health Ministry estimates by comparison that all told, 3,853 Iraqis have been killed and 15,517 wounded.
The fact is that 40 percent of Iraqis say their country is better off since the war, and 65 percent are optimistic about the future. Iraqis are intending to vote in the upcoming elections to the tune of 85 percent, and 45 percent currently support Prime Minister Ayad Allawi. Many are unhappy with the U.S. troops' presence there, but at least 35 percent want the United States to stay.
We still have a rocky road ahead, beyond doubt, but these figures do not add up to the unmitigated failure that critics of the Bush administration have been painting.
I'll say it again.
There is no other estimate of Iraqi deaths that is more trustworthy than the Lancet Medical Journal at this time.
The US Occupation Forces simply do not allow body counts so this is, effectively, the ONLY FOCKIN' SOURCE. All other sources rely entirely on media reports (from a media not allowed anywhere).
It's cute some bozo at the NYT decided to diss this report as "irrisponsible" (shows how scared the NYT staff is to tell the truth) rather like the dozens of other reports out there in the US media.
Shows what a scared nation America has become and the creeping fascism within the USA. Even the NYT is afraid.
Make no mistake... I'm sure you can find 5 links to stories that contradict what I've posted here.
But I posted the best source of that info... period.
Rememeber - no one has any valid numbers BUT the Lancet. The Lancet got it's numbers on the ground in Iraq.
So of course, this is what the neofascists do - they troll every fact that comes along, causeing the very same thing that happens in this BBS to happen on your TV. Everyone is argueing if the facts are facts. A vicious circle where the media leaves the people without any facts at all.
That's why most Americans still believe the false facts Saddam Hussein had WMDs and was helping al Qaeda.
Sick.
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Ghoulman,
The POINT here is that the Lancet estimated the number of deaths by using an invalid statistical sampling method. I myself am quite familiar with the use of statistics, and how using the wrong method, or a small sample size can and will give erronous data. Kind of a Statistical GIGO law.
But then again, I regret resurrecting this thread. After all, your not interested in the facts here. You'd rather just vent your spleen by calling all US citizens Neo Fascist Nazi, child gassing, murdering imperialist warmongers.
Is'nt that right?
You know, maybe you should have at least considered taking the "red pill". A little dose of reality would do you some good.
Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.
BarnStormer
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Meanwhile, the Marines have just expelled the Iraqi Red Crescent- their Red Cross- from Fallujah. Please note: IRC was expelled, it didn't "pull out" of Fallujah as previously reported by the western Press.
http://newstandardnews.net/content/?action=show_item&itemid=1274
I cannot find reference to ANY aide agency operating in Fallujah, can you? So all we have is the military's word on how well they are handling the situation ... not that they have ever lied before
PSYOPS and the USA disinformation campaign
www.infoshop.org/inews/stories.php?story=04/12/05/5411656
Pat Tillman's death a friendly fire horror:
www.infoshop.org/inews/stories.php?story=04/12/06/8433343
... and how that $100 million is in the pipeline to Falujah. All I can say is- I hope for the 60,000 ppl left in the city, the military does a MUCH better job than so far because right now those ppl have no other source of food, water, or medical attention.
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Classic troll...
Quote:
Originally posted by BarnStormer:
Ghoulman,
The POINT here is that the Lancet estimated the number of deaths by using an invalid statistical sampling method. I myself am quite familiar with the use of statistics, and how using the wrong method, or a small sample size can and will give erronous data. Kind of a Statistical GIGO law.
That's your opinion which is based on nothing. You can't tell me, or anyone with a brain, that a world leading medical organization fucked up it's math. You get that little logic right? Oh wait... you refuse too...
Quote:
But then again, I regret resurrecting this thread. After all, your not interested in the facts here. You'd rather just vent your spleen by calling all US citizens Neo Fascist Nazi, child gassing, murdering imperialist warmongers.
Is'nt that right?
Because my opinion doesn't matter.
Because the opinion of one of the worlds leading medical associations doesn't matter.
Because what the Red Cross reports doesn't matter.
Because refugees reporting US troops using gas doesn't matter.
You have made that clear. You and your trolling pals have made that clear over and over and over.
Your behavior is despicable.
Quote:
You know, maybe you should have at least considered taking the "red pill". A little dose of reality would do you some good.
The reality I subscribe to isn't the reality being "manufactured" in the USA right now. A manufactured reality you believe in so much you are willing to shit on me, lie about your math knowledge, and refuse to accept the only ... THE ONLY ... trusted, scientific, non-partisan, source of information about this subject.
I can't do anything more.
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I want to make a point about why fascists all over America attack individuals and whole nations as "anti-American" and why that's fascistic crap.
Quote:
Originally posted by some ass:
But then again, I regret resurrecting this thread. After all, your not interested in the facts here. You'd rather just vent your spleen by calling all US citizens Neo Fascist Nazi, child gassing, murdering imperialist warmongers.
The entire world is against the Bush White House ... yet ... you insist people are simply "anti-American".
That's a lie.
And this is what passes for political commentary in US media. Take the recent visit by Bush to Canada. All over Canadian TV the protests against Bush were just that, protests against Bush. In the USA - Canadians were branded anti-American like the Germans and French.
See the switcheroo?
It's sad that Americans are subjected to this fascist rubbish. Be aware that your TV is lieing for the White House.
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