So.... About this "Caravan"
POSTED BY: 6IXSTRINGJACK
UPDATED: Friday, November 8, 2024 16:11
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He made such a fool of himself there. They owned his ass.
Then again, when does Blumpy not make a fool of himself?
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Quote:Trump doesn’t want the wall. He wants a fight about the wall.
Originally posted by reaverfan:
He made such a fool of himself there. They owned his ass.
Then again, when does Blumpy not make a fool of himself?
If Trump really wanted the wall he’d make a deal to get it.
What became clear in Tuesday’s Oval Office fiasco is that President Donald Trump doesn’t want the wall or a deal.
The difference between the $1.3 billion in wall funding Trump has and the $5 billion in wall funding Trump wants is $3.7 billion — peanuts in the context of the $4 trillion federal budget. There’s plenty Trump could offer House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer in return. Trump is, after all, the great dealmaker.
But Trump’s offer is, well, nothing. Rather than invite Pelosi and Schumer for a private negotiation, Trump asked them to the Oval Office for a public showdown in front of live cameras. “It’s called transparency,” Trump said. But it’s not transparency. It’s posturing.
This comes even clearer when you consider the wall’s true costs. The $5 billion in funding Trump is demanding isn’t actually enough to build the wall. Estimates of the total cost range from about $20 billion to $70 billion. Securing funding at either level would require a much bigger deal, with much more significant concessions from Trump.
But Trump isn’t offering a deal, and he isn’t constructing the kind of process where anyone might offer him a deal. Instead, he’s looking for a photo op. He’s looking for a clip of himself he can see played, and praised, on Fox & Friends.
Trump has a tendency to view his presidency as a reality television show where what’s important are storylines, confrontations, and plot twists. What he made yesterday was good television. But good television is about the fight, not the deal. The deal happens behind closed doors, it requires giving things up and seeing the other side’s perspective.
www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/12/12/18137651/trump-wall-pelosi-
schumer-white-house-immigration
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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I have posted with just about every post related to immigration reform is that we HAVE to stop meddling in the politics and economies of our neighbors south of the border because it creates a moral responsibility for us to "solve" the problems that we created (or can be argued that we created).
This is one of the reasons why illegal immigrants really DO feel "entitled" to a share of the USA economy, and one of the unstated reasons that cause liberals to buy into a sense of guilt. (But rather than SOLVING the problem, they want to "help the poor" that they themselves created.)
If you want to see evidence of this ...
Quote:
Central American Migrants Demand Trump Pay $50K Each To Go Home
Two groups of Central American migrants delivered a list of demands to the US Consulate in Tijuana in Tuesday, with one group demanding to be let into the United States, or be paid $50,000 each to go home, according to the San Diego Union Tribune.
A group of about 50 migrants walked from the Mexico Immigration office to the U.S. Consulate office to deliver a letter asking U.S. officials to speed up the asylum process.
The first group demanding action, numbering about 100, arrived at the U.S. Consulate at about 11 am Tuesday. The migrants said they were asking that the Trump Administration pay them $50,000 each or allow them into the U.S.
When asked how the group came up with the $50,000 figure, organizer Alfonso Guerrero Ulloa of Honduras, said they chose that number as a group. -SD Union Tribune https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/border-baja-california/sd-me
-migrant-demands-12122018-story.html
"It may seem like a lot of money to you," said Ulloa. "But it is a small sum compared to everything the United States has stolen from Honduras," referencing American intervention in Central America.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-12-12/central-american-migrants-de
mand-trump-pay-50k-each-go-home
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:It is not "we". It is the United Fruit Company. United Fruit had dominated business and politics in Central America. It was the first truly multinational modern corporation, spreading the spirit of liberal capitalism. As well as harvesting the region’s fruit, however, the company wielded formidable influence over small nations, which were often ruled by corrupt dictatorships. United Fruit gave the world not just bananas, but also ”banana republics”.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I have posted with just about every post related to immigration reform is that we HAVE to stop meddling in the politics and economies of our neighbors south of the border because it creates a moral responsibility for us to "solve" the problems that we created (or can be argued that we created).
This is one of the reasons why illegal immigrants really DO feel "entitled" to a share of the USA economy, and one of the unstated reasons that cause liberals to buy into a sense of guilt. (But rather than SOLVING the problem, they want to "help the poor" that they themselves created.)
If you want to see evidence of this ...
It emerged that Eli Black, chief executive of the United Fruit Company, had bribed the Honduran president, Oswaldo Lopez Arellano, with $1.25m to encourage him to pull out of a banana cartel which opposed United Fruit. The story was about to come out in the US press in 1975. United Fruit’s Central American plantations were also struggling with hurricane damage and a new banana disease. Facing disgrace and failure, Black took his own life. His death was shocking, not least because he had the reputation of a highly moral man. Wall Street was outraged, the company’s shares crashed and regulators seized its books to prevent ”its further violation of the law”. The company subsequently disappeared from public view and was seemingly erased from the collective mind.
United Fruit may no longer exist, but its legacy on world affairs endures. Its activities in Cuba, where it was seen as a symbol of US imperialism, were significant in the rise of Fidel Castro and the Cuban revolution of the late 1950s. Its participation in the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba in 1961, in a vain attempt to overthrow Castro, led to the Cuban missile crisis. As the world stood on the brink of nuclear holocaust, few could have imagined it had anything to do with bananas.
www.ft.com/content/778739c4-f869-11db-a940-000b5df10621
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Fruit_Company
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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SECOND, please don't pretend that you know anything about the topic!
The USA imposed crippling economic sanctions and then paid a disgruntled portion of the population to topple Allende because ... copper. IMB. Ford. CIA.
We overthrew the Colombian government of Panama because ... canal. And then invaded Panama because .... canal.
We sanctioned Venezuela several times over because ... oil.
We intervened in Nicaragua in 1909, occupied from 1912 to 1923 because ... banks ... canal ...
We're STILL "intervening" in Central and South America!
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:Signym, this thread is about the "Caravan" of people walking, not flying, to the Mexican border.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND, please don't pretend that you know anything about the topic!
The USA imposed crippling economic sanctions and then paid a disgruntled portion of the population to topple Allende because ... copper. IMB. Ford. CIA.
We overthrew the Colombian government of Panama because ... canal. And then invaded Panama because .... canal.
We sanctioned Venezuela several times over because ... oil.
We intervened in Nicaragua in 1909, occupied from 1912 to 1923 because ... banks ... canal ...
We're STILL "intervening" in Central and South America!
Signym, you mentioned Chile, Colombia, Venezuela. Nobody walked from those three to the Texas/Mexican border. Remember this is about the Caravan. They flew to an airport, probably Miami or Houston. If security isn't good at the airport, it won't be improved by building a better wall along the Texas/Mexico border or sending more troops to Texas with shoot-to-kill orders to stop illegal aliens. Signym, you've got to be a Russian who only read about the US/Latin American rather than experiencing it like I have by actually going. Nobody walks to or from the USA and Chile, Colombia, Venezuela, Panama.
Signym, you should have mentioned boat people from Havana. Deport them back to Cuba where they belong. Send Marco Rubio, GOP Florida Senator, and the 2 million Cubans back to where they belong.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Americans
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Nobody walks to or from the USA and Chile, Colombia, Venezuela, Panama.
Why not?
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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It doens't matter SECOND. EVERY nation that we "intervene in" has a different reason and a different backer. Sometimes its oil, sometimes its banking, sometimes its "free trade", sometimes copper, or water, or "anti-Communism" ... sometimes its bananas. Put your finger on any nation south of our border and we've been there (except Costa Rica) often more than once.
And we're STILL interfering there! Sanctions, CIA operations, security forces "training" and funding, political support for dictatorships and coups ... we really need to get our fingers out of there and let each people find their own way with their own governments.
Is that something we can agree on?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:So I guess non-interference is NOT something we agree on?
Is that something we can agree on? - SIGNY
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
SECOND - you rail bitterly and endlessly about your fellow Americans and how easily they're stampeded into stupid wars, and yet you yourself can't even commit to an non-interventionist statement.
Why is that? Are you a hypocrite? Are you afraid of agreeing with me because you might be bullied here? Worried you might get a taste of your own medicine? Do you have snakes in your head, where your thoughts meet each other coming and going?
I mean, seriously, what's the deal?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME