A thread for Democrats Only

POSTED BY: THGRRI
UPDATED: Sunday, September 6, 2026 15:36
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PAGE 117 of 725

Monday, May 14, 2018 11:05 PM

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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You're proposing drastically under cutting the value of this work by having it all done on taxpayer dime. This essentially amounts to taxpayer funded "scabs" doing the work for 1/5th of the actual value of the work. Regardless of how you see things, this is a valid argument and would have impact beyond what you're projecting.

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Who cares if they're not currently being performed? What happens when that work is done? The answer is they will start doing jobs that are already currently being performed by people who make a living at it. They would eventually take over those sectors of jobs as well because A) they'd be cheaper than anyone else and B) they're the gummint.

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I can't imagine what are essentially government workers being used for private-sector work while they're still government workers. Yanno, maybe it happens in some movie version of a corrupt dictatorship, where the generalissimo has the troops build his gold mansion with private landing strip on the pristine mountain, instead of hiring contractors ... but we're not that. At least not yet.

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Army doesn't get as many people as they used to.

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To some extent that's due to the aging of the population as a whole. But many people don't volunteer for the simple reason that 1) they saw people get redeployed over and over in Afghanistan and Iraq, in what I call a 'use them until they break, then throw them away' policy; and 2) nobody with any sense wants to risk their life. https://www.politico.eu/article/the-militarys-real-problem-fewer-ameri
cans-are-joining/

And that topic leads in to this:

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Nobody is going to sign up for this as their only military duty.

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If you remove combat duty from the equation, death and permanent disability DISincentives disappear.

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I can't imagine a bunch of people signing up for a non-combat army that stays at home and fixes bridges and in exchange for free room and board and a few bucks over minimum wage they're going to hand 24/7 control over their lives to the Government.

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Yeah, why would a young person who can't get a job want to 1) get a job, 2) be provided for, 3) move out of the house and hood, 4) not risk life and limb, and 5) LEARN A VALUABLE TRADE OR SKILL for when they leave?

You seem to think that people would be more eager to join the military if only they just could have the fantabulous opportunity of dying or being disabled BEFORE they get their training, instead of skipping the risk and going straight to the training.

I'm not saying it would be for everybody. But the combined services are ~1.3M strong. Even under today's circumstances, it attracts a significant number of people. I can imagine it would continue to attract at least as many, if not more.

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SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

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Saturday, May 19, 2018 7:29 PM

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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Kiki is talking about people handing over at least 4 years of their life under 24/7 direct management from the Military, housing non-combat duty soldiers on American soil on the taxpayer dime. Huge difference.

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Which we are ALREADY doing. It's generically called the military.

All I'm proposing is that we change the military's tasks and locale - from killing overseas, to providing societal value here.

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SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

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Saturday, May 19, 2018 10:18 PM

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
You object to the military proper being controlled by the military chain of command? You object to the military being paid their existing pay? You object to the military being housed and fed from the military budget? You object to them being quartered in the US?

Those are absurd points. All those circumstances are the current reality. And of the roughly 1.3 million personnel, only 0.2 million are overseas. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/08/22/u-s-active-duty-milita
ry-presence-overseas-is-at-its-smallest-in-decades/

So, where are the other 1.1 million? They're living on and off base, in the US. Here's a listing of US military bases in the US, just FYI:

United States
Alabama
Fort Rucker
Maxwell-Gunter
Redstone Arsenal
Alaska
Eielson
Elmendorf
Fort Richardson
Fort Wainwright
Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson
Arizona
Davis-Monthan Air Force Base
Fort Huachuca
Luke Air Force Base
Marine Corps Air Station Yuma
Yuma Proving Ground
Arkansas
Little Rock
California
China Lake Naval Air Weapons Station
Coast Guard Training Center Petaluma
Fort Irwin
Los Angeles Air Force Base
March Air Reserve Base
Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Center - Twentynine Palms
Marine Corps Air Station Miramar
Marine Corps Base Camp Pendleton
Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego
Naval Air Station Lemoore
Naval Air Station North Island
Naval Amphibious Base Coronado
Naval Base Coronado
Naval Base Point Loma
Naval Base San Diego
Naval Base Ventura County
Naval Postgraduate School
Presidio of Monterey
San Diego Military Bases
Travis Air Force Base
US Coast Guard Station San Diego
Vandenberg Air Force Base
Colorado
Buckley Air Force Base
Colorado Springs Military Bases
Fort Carson
Peterson Air Force Base
Schriever Air Force Base
United States Air Force Academy
Connecticut
Naval Submarine Base New London
Delaware
Dover Air Force Base
District of Columbia
Joint Base Anacostia-Bolling
Naval District Washington
Walter Reed Army Medical Center
Florida
Eglin Air Force Base
Hurlburt Field
MacDill Air Force Base
Naval Air Station Key West
Naval Air Station Pensacola
Naval Air Station Whiting Field
Naval Station Mayport
Naval Support Activity Panama City
Pensacola Florida Military Bases
Tyndall Air Force Base
United States Southern Command
Georgia
Fort Benning
Fort Gordon
Fort Stewart
Hunter Army Airfield
Naval Submarine Base Kings Bay
Robins Air Force Base
Hawaii
Coast Guard Sector Honolulu
Hickam Air Force Base
Joint Base Pearl Harbor - Hickam
Marine Corps Base Hawaii
Naval Station Pearl Harbor
Oahu Hawaii Military Bases
Schofield Barracks/Fort Shafter
Tripler Army Medical Center
Idaho
Mountain Home Air Force Base
Illinois
Naval Station Great Lakes
Scott AFB Guide
Indiana
Grissom Air Reserve Base
Kansas
Fort Leavenworth
Fort Riley
McConnell Air Force Base
Kentucky
Fort Campbell
Fort Knox
Louisiana
Barksdale Air Force Base
Fort Polk
Naval Air Station Joint Reserve Base New Orleans
Maryland
Aberdeen Proving Ground
Andrews Air Force Base
Coast Guard Sector Baltimore
Fort Detrick
Fort George G. Meade
Joint Base Andrews
National Naval Medical Center
Naval Air Station Patuxent River
Naval Support Activity Bethesda
Navy Fort Meade
US Naval Academy
Massachusetts
Fort Devens
Hanscom Air Force Base
Mississippi
Columbus Air Force Base
Keesler Air Force Base
Naval Air Station Meridian
Naval Construction Battalion Center Gulfport
Missouri
Fort Leonard Wood
Whiteman Air Force Base
Montana
Malmstrom Air Force Base
Nebraska
Offutt Air Force Base
Nevada
Creech Air Force Base
Naval Air Station Fallon
Nellis Air Force Base
New Jersey
Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst
New Mexico
Cannon Air Force Base
Holloman Air Force Base
Kirtland Air Force Base
New York
Fort Drum
Fort Hamilton
Naval Support Activity Saratoga Springs
United States Military Academy, West Point
North Carolina
Fayetteville North Carolina Military Bases
Fort Bragg
Jacksonville Nort

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1KIKI

Tuesday, May 22, 2018 9:42 AM

Sunday, May 20, 2018 2:03 AM

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
I'm making this particular suggestion because nether party seems to object to the size of the military we have, the number of people in it, or the amount of money that is spent. And a civilian corps would be too much like socialism.

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SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

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Sunday, May 20, 2018 1:37 PM

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
"It requires people to be put under the military code of justice just for "three hots and a cot" and training"

Which they are ALREADY doing. I'm not changing that. Today's all volunteer army requires people who make a choice to join. Some join for the college and post-college benefits, some want to make it a career, some just need a job. But they are certainly wiling to be deployed in an active war zone, and put their lives, health, and futures on the line, to get the economic benefits they seek in the military.

And note: I'm not saying we EXPAND the military.

What part of 'everything else stays the same' do people not get?

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SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

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Sunday, May 20, 2018 1:55 PM

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
I've come to the realization (above) by watching Homicide Hunter, which is a real crime TV show. But because it's in Colorado Springs - which has a large collection of military bases and offices in and nearby (within 10 miles) - I've learned a lot about the scope and function of the US military in the economy. Your concern is that it will get that bad. Watching this show I can say it IS that bad. The military is HUGE. Collected all together, it would be a substantial city on a map. We just don't see it because we don't live next to military bases.

Here's a list (some bases have more than 1 physical location):

Peterson Air Force Base
Colorado Springs, CO
(719) 556-7321

Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station
Colorado Springs, CO
(719) 474-1110

Fort Carson
Fort Carson, CO
(719) 526-5811

Ft. Carson
Colorado Springs, CO

US Army Department
Colorado Springs, CO
(719) 526-3410

US Army Department
Colorado Springs, CO
(719) 526-5958

JBTEC
Colorado Springs, CO

Schriever Air Force Base
Colorado Springs, CO
(719) 567-1110

US Army Space Command
Colorado Springs, CO

US Defense Contract Audit
Colorado Springs, CO
(719) 596-0960

US Defense Contract Audit
Colorado Springs, CO
(719) 596-0960

21st Force Support Squadron
Colorado Springs, CO
(719) 556-4023

Peterson AFB West Gate Visitors Center
Colorado Springs, CO

Off Post Homes
Colorado Springs, CO
(719) 591-7653

United States Air Force Academy
U.S. Air Force Academy, CO
(719) 333-2025

National Guard
Colorado Springs, CO
(719) 596-7184

50th Space Wing
Schriever AFB, CO
(719) 567-5040

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SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

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Sunday, May 20, 2018 9:21 PM

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
"So your solution to the problem is to expand the huge bad"

NOT expand it !!!


I've said that many times already.

What part of EVERYTHING ELSE STAYS THE SAME do you not understand?

The military doesn't get larger. They house, feed and pay them the EXACT same way they do now. The military chain of command is the same. There are only two differences.

1 the military doesn't get deployed overseas
2 instead of doing combat duty they get trained to work on, then work on, public, not-for-profit projects.

I've been though this over a half a dozen times with you.


You are incredibly dense.

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SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
"What your proposing would expand it."

Well, that's one way to try and win an argument. Lie about what I said, and then tell me I'm wrong.


Jack, you have such a powerful reaction, you can't stop blubbering and hyperventilating long enough to comprehend what I posted. Unless you have something that factually addresses my proposal, I'm just going to write off your posts. Unless I take the time to point out that you're lying. Again. And then maybe make fun of you.

SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

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Perhaps if you explain what 6ix has incorrect, the exchange could progress.

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She keeps saying that she's not proposing to expand the military, but that's exactly what she is doing with her suggestion.

I can't help it if she thinks I'm a liar for saying so. Sigs doesn't agree with Kiki here either.

What's your take, JSF?

It would be interesting to hear your side since unlike us, I don't believe you have any problems with the current size of our military.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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In a pattern that’s played out over and over since the tax cuts passed — companies profit, shareholders reap the benefits, and workers get left out. Corporate stock buybacks hit a record $178 billion in the first three months of 2018; average hourly earnings for American workers are up 67 cents over the past year. Harley-Davidson is an American symbol, and President Trump has trotted it out as an example of business success. But as it’s getting its tax cut, it’s outsourcing jobs and paying shareholders.

Harley-Davidson took its tax cut, closed a factory, and rewarded shareholders.
The motorcycle maker in January told 800 Kansas City workers it would close a plant there. Days later, it announced a nearly $700 million stock buyback plan.
www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/5/22/17350180/harley-davidson-tax
-buyback-kansas-city-factory

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Originally posted by second:
In a pattern that’s played out over and over since the tax cuts passed — companies profit, shareholders reap the benefits, and workers get left out. Corporate stock buybacks hit a record $178 billion in the first three months of 2018; average hourly earnings for American workers are up 67 cents over the past year. Harley-Davidson is an American symbol, and President Trump has trotted it out as an example of business success. But as it’s getting its tax cut, it’s outsourcing jobs and paying shareholders.

Harley-Davidson took its tax cut, closed a factory, and rewarded shareholders.
The motorcycle maker in January told 800 Kansas City workers it would close a plant there. Days later, it announced a nearly $700 million stock buyback plan.
www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/5/22/17350180/harley-davidson-tax
-buyback-kansas-city-factory

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Yeah. We've been doing this for 20 years now.

I have to admit that I thought I voted against it in 2016.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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