Deep state. MSM. Trump ...
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Friday, March 14, 2025 17:04
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SHINY ... I feel that I didn't adequately respond to this part of your post, which contains a very important point ...
Quote:
I have another question. Isn't Russia, or actually the oligarchs, running things as part of the Deep State? I would think that the Deep State would want chaos and confusion to reign supreme so that their agenda would be advanced to their benefit.
Hence the continued unrest throughout the planet, that would keep the world in their greedy little hands. You know, control of the world's markets and thereby allowing for the manipulation of the people of the world. Money, the control of it, being at the core of their agenda.
It caused me to stop and think .... which part of any deep state/oligarchy wants chaos and unrest?
It seems to me that if you make money in almost any economic activity .... the manufacturing and sale of goods ....chaos and unrest aren't really to your benefit. IF there is internal unrest (riots, civil war) or war between nations, then all sorts of facilities and services are at risk. Just look at Syria or even Ukraine as examples ... production facilities are bombed, roads become impassible, supply-chains are interrupted. Or use Apple as an example: If "actions" were to be taken against China, shipping thru the South China sea might be halted, contracts abrogated, etc. Just thinking sort of broad-brush, civilian economic activity and trade is throttled under conditions of unrest or war.
OTOH, there are oligarchs for whom chaos, civil war, unrest, and war represent a good money-making opportunity, and those are
1) The military-industrial complex i.e. non-civilian production, and non-civilian services such as contracted fighters, provisioners etc
2) Financial speculators such as those who speculate on the price of commodities, currencies etc ... they can make money whether the value of ANYthing goes up or down (this would be hedge funds investing in derivatives for example). Static conditions, in which prices remain relatively constant, don't represent speculative opportunity.
3) Lenders (banks) who will happily lend war-making money to any nation, even if that nation borrows itself into oblivion, because they will either (a) get interest payments or (b) if nations fail to make payment, the lenders will take possession of resources (such as mines) or infrastructure (such as ports) at fire-sale prices
So, in general, I'd say that only a certain type of oligarch wants chaos, and those would be either directly involved in military production or services or financial speculation.
In general, what I think is that the various speculators and central banks which have impoverished vast parts of the world (Central and South America, Africa, much of the Mideast, Eastern/Southern Europe and South Asia) have either extracted as much as they can from their nations in thrall, or they've hit a brick wall with China and Russia; and they have turned their kind attentions to the USA. Because they really don't have OUR national interests at heart, they are only loyal to making money, and don't mind sending us on a ruinous course as long as they get their percentage.
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Quote:So now you're saying that being Republican or being Democrat is either a genetic or developmental issue? That "over reactors" are Republican?
My sister has three children. The one that was filled with anxiety since he was a fussy little baby, my eldest nephew the Republican, is the nephew that over-reacts to all problems, which causes a cascade of secondary problems, exactly as his father, the Republican, over-reacts .... My nephew's mother, my older sister, is never phased by any problems, similar to her other children, who are not Republicans.
Well, how do we explain YOU?
I mean, if anyone is tweaked by minor stuff, it seems you would be a good example! In fact, the most twitchy, over-reactive people here seem to be of the "Democratic liberal" variety ... the kind of reaction that caused the "snowflake" meme to become so popular. I see people getting hysterical (I think the term "hyperventilating" was used by Clapper to characterize your reaction to so-called Russian "hacking") over minor issues. A lot of reaction to small things, and no reaction at all to big problems?
I guess you're right... it must be a developmental problem!
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Quote:
My nephew's mother, my older sister, is never phased by any problems, similar to her other children, who are not Republicans.
I think this is just a ridiculous statement. That is something I say about anybody who deals in absolutes.
The only people I have ever seen that "have it all figured out" or at least try to put off the image of somebody who does are cult leaders. Anybody who is "never phased by any problems" in my eyes is somebody not to be trusted.
People are people. Yes, overreacting to everything is obviously not a good character trait, but life happens, and it should be expected that as a human being you're going to have enough pressure put upon you at some point in your life that you're going to at the very least have a reaction to it.
If nothing truly ever phases her, it has nothing to do with being a Democrat. She's either A) a robot, B) a very good liar, C) on a perfect mood-altering drug cocktail, D) living a life with both little responsibility coupled with enough money to throw at any problems that life dumps on her, or E) a combination of any of the above.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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The point I was making is that SECOND dumps on his nephew for being an over-reactive hate-filled over-generalizing ideologue, but behaves exactly the same way here.
So .... What's up with that, SECOND ????
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Hello???
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Sig,
So what you are stating is that chaos and unrest DOES NOT benefit Russia or China. They prefer stable governments, ones that they could take advantage of. They would prefer a certain type of confusion and unrest, and not full out war. Such as in Syria.
Then why back Syria and the genocide that takes place there? And isn't that "certain type of unrest" still part and parcel of the Deep State, as you put it?
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you place Obama and his Administration as the head of the Deep State? Does it exist here in the US?
I'm curious because I've often heard that name bandied about in regards to Obama, Lynch and Holder. Am I way off base here?
1. The military industrial complex, which includes the USA and Russia, would certainly benefit from war and political confusion. Of course, only a handful of companies, with ties to certain individuals within the MIC would greatly benefit. i.e.: Halliburton.
2. As financial speculators go, betting on the markets doesn't rely solely on stable worldwide situations....correct! But the economically well-off generally benefit greatly. The Deep State isn't needed for that, at least I don't think so.
3. I tend to agree, to some extent, with this point, but War isn't always needed to topple a government or regime. Look at Puerto Rico, a perfect example of government manipulation/interference/malfeasence coupled with good old fashioned corporate greed. Wall Street, with the help of Congress and the president, are looking to put the squeeze on the Commonwealth and may look to call in Wall Street's Bonds, held by elite hedge fund companies.
Is that a part of the Deep State? If so, then Obama isn't alone in steering the good ship "Greed" in and around the island. The Deep State is being helmed by ....................who exactly?
As an aside, I've heard rumors that Kushner was instrumental in involving Qatar in the civil strife that is taking place there. All because of a deal that fell through to help him satisfy the outstanding debt at 666 Fifth Avenue. Is that what you were refering in your final paragraph?
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SHINY ... I feel that I didn't adequately respond to this part of your post, which contains a very important point ...Quote:
I have another question. Isn't Russia, or actually the oligarchs, running things as part of the Deep State? I would think that the Deep State would want chaos and confusion to reign supreme so that their agenda would be advanced to their benefit.
Hence the continued unrest throughout the planet, that would keep the world in their greedy little hands. You know, control of the world's markets and thereby allowing for the manipulation of the people of the world. Money, the control of it, being at the core of their agenda.
It caused me to stop and think .... which part of any deep state/oligarchy wants chaos and unrest?
It seems to me that if you make money in almost any economic activity .... the manufacturing and sale of goods ....chaos and unrest aren't really to your benefit. IF there is internal unrest (riots, civil war) or war between nations, then all sorts of facilities and services are at risk. Just look at Syria or even Ukraine as examples ... production facilities are bombed, roads become impassible, supply-chains are interrupted. Or use Apple as an example: If "actions" were to be taken against China, shipping thru the South China sea might be halted, contracts abrogated, etc. Just thinking sort of broad-brush, civilian economic activity and trade is throttled under conditions of unrest or war.
OTOH, there are oligarchs for whom chaos, civil war, unrest, and war represent a good money-making opportunity, and those are
1) The military-industrial complex i.e. non-civilian production, and non-civilian services such as contracted fighters, provisioners etc
2) Financial speculators such as those who speculate on the pNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Sig,
I'm going to go ahead and answer some of this. Feel free to tell me if I'm way off base Sigs.
Quote:
So what you are stating is that chaos and unrest DOES NOT benefit Russia or China. They prefer stable governments, ones that they could take advantage of. They would prefer a certain type of confusion and unrest, and not full out war. Such as in Syria.
Then why back Syria and the genocide that takes place there? And isn't that "certain type of unrest" still part and parcel of the Deep State, as you put it?
They prefer their own governments to be relatively stable. Syria and the people who live there don't mean shit to them. Kinda like how the people running the show here don't give two shits about all the brown people we've been at war with for most of my life.
Being at "war" with Syria is as beneficial to the Russian government as being at "war" with the Middle East in general is to our own government.
Quote:
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you place Obama and his Administration as the head of the Deep State? Does it exist here in the US?
I'm curious because I've often heard that name bandied about in regards to Obama, Lynch and Holder. Am I way off base here?
The deep state was around a long time before Obama even got into politics. I won't go so far as to say he was an useful idiot, because he is demonstrably intelligent, but let's just say that he was Deep State friendly.
Quote:
1. The military industrial complex, which includes the USA and Russia, would certainly benefit from war and political confusion. Of course, only a handful of companies, with ties to certain individuals within the MIC would greatly benefit. i.e.: Halliburton.
True, if we're only talking about financials. But if this is all you're considering then you're taking out the psychological warfare element of the whole show. Think about the average stress your everyday citizen goes through on a daily basis just taking care of themselves and the people they care about. Now add the constant wars and politicking that has infected each and every one of us that pays any attention to it all.
Quote:
2. As financial speculators go, betting on the markets doesn't rely solely on stable worldwide situations....correct! But the economically well-off generally benefit greatly. The Deep State isn't needed for that, at least I don't think so.
The Deep State isn't needed for that, no. But they know everything that is going on. They can't lose that rigged game because, unlike Krugman, they know how the game is going to play out before it even happens. You don't need a crystal ball when you're controlling the game.
Quote:
3. I tend to agree, to some extent, with this point, but War isn't always needed to topple a government or regime. Look at Puerto Rico, a perfect example of government manipulation/interference/malfeasence coupled with good old fashioned corporate greed. Wall Street, with the help of Congress and the president, are looking to put the squeeze on the Commonwealth and may look to call in Wall Street's Bonds, held by elite hedge fund companies.
I don't know if that's true with Puerto Rico. I mean... I'm sure greed plays into it because somebody is always going to make money on other people's misfortunes. I think the largest problem in Puerto Rico was bad leadership and no emergency game plan, and terrible execution after the fact.
Quote:
Is that a part of the Deep State? If so, then Obama isn't alone in steering the good ship "Greed" in and around the island. The Deep State is being helmed by ....................who exactly?
Not by Obama, that's pretty much for certain. You're guess is good as mine. The Rockefellers, maybe? Aliens?
Quote:
As an aside, I've heard rumors that Kushner was instrumental in involvinNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Tongue firmly in cheek
SGG
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I will respond soon.
SGG
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So the Deep State had nothing to do with Trump's election and getting him into the White House?
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Comey's manipulation of the election - going public with an inconsequential detail of the Hillary investigation a week before the election, while releasing nothing about the investigations into Trump's Russia ties throughout the entire election cycle - seems like the clearest example of 'deep state' undermining democracy.Quote:Hey look! Reaver shit-hit-the fan is agreeing with kpo about something that never happened! It sure smells like a Nazi troll to me! www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/know-u-s-investigations-russia-possible-t
Originally posted by reaverfan:
ies-trumps-campaign/
How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?
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