Syria and Ukraine, Catalan and Kurdistan: what do they have in common?
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Saturday, November 16, 2024 22:06
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Quote:You have a quote or link for that? No, of course not. Because YOUR LINK is a description of a war crimes report, and has nothing to do with Ukraine applying for anything. I love how you, like the perfect lying propagandist troll you are, make things up.
Originally posted by kpo:
Ukraine applied for this jurisdiction - they're hopeful of getting verdicts against Russia over its illegal annexation of Crimea. If you're going to desperately google "Ukraine war crimes" at least read what you find
Quote:And right after that is says "Close to 90 per cent of conflict-related civilian deaths have resulted from indiscriminate shelling of residential areas." Shelling carried out by Kiev orders, according to the report http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Countries/UA/OHCHRThematicReportUkraine
This is the UN report that says the conflict is “fuelled by the inflow of foreign fighters and weapons from Russia", yes?
Jan2014-May2016_EN.pdf which criticizes the Ukrainian military. They criticize Ukrainian security forces for many of the deaths at Maidan. They criticize the military for killing prisoners. They criticize the military for killing military whistle-blowers. Ukraine police and military come in for a lot of criticism.
How's that claim going that Kiev has no responsibility for any war crimes, EVER?
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:Quote:You have a quote or link for that? No, of course not.
Originally posted by kpo:
Ukraine applied for this jurisdiction - they're hopeful of getting verdicts against Russia over its illegal annexation of Crimea.
It's there in the first line in your own link
Quote:
Today, 17 April 2014, the Registrar of the International Criminal Court (ICC), Herman von Hebel, received a declaration lodged by Ukraine accepting the ICC's jurisdiction
By the way, the outcome of that jurisdiction was that last year the ICC ruled that Russia's annexation of Crimea was an "occupation" of Ukrainian territory, and that Russia was waging war against Ukraine in the Donbas. This led to Russia pulling out of the ICC:
https://www.ft.com/content/994dd700-ac07-11e6-ba7d-76378e4fef24
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/16/russia-withdraws-signatu
re-from-international-criminal-court-statute
From the second link:
Quote:
Ukraine has not ratified the Rome Statute either, but gave the ICC special jurisdiction to oversee the case.
Quote:
I love how you, like the perfect lying propagandist troll you are, make things up.
Speaking of which, please direct me to the part of the report that says that 90% of civilian deaths are attributable to "shelling carried out by Kiev orders".
Quote:
And right after that is says "Close to 90 per cent of conflict-related civilian deaths have resulted from indiscriminate shelling of residential areas."
ON BOTH SIDES. It says this clearly in the report.
Quote:
They criticize Ukrainian security forces for many of the deaths at Maidan.
LOL! These were killings of pro-Ukrainian, pro-European protesters by a pro-Russian Ukrainian president who is now hiding out in Russia! Getting desperate kiki?
Quote:
They criticize the military for killing prisoners. They criticize the military for killing military whistle-blowers. Ukraine police and military come in for a lot of criticism.
As do the separatists. As does Russia. What's your point?
Quote:
How's that claim going that Kiev has no responsibility for any war crimes in Crimea, EVER?
You tell me, you were supposed to be finding evidence of some! I'll wait
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Catalonia independence demonstration
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Catalan Leader Defies Spain, Sends Evasive Reply To Rajoy Activating Second Ultimatum Deadline
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-16/catalan-leader-defies-spain-s
ends-evasive-reply-rajoy-activating-second-ultimatum-de
With Just Hours Until Spain's Ultimatum Runs Out, Catalonia Proposes Its Own Central Bank
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-15/just-hours-until-spains-ultim
atum-runs-out-catalonia-proposes-its-own-central-bank
Spanish Prosecutors Seek To Jail Popular Catalan Police Chief
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-16/spanish-prosecutors-seek-jail
-popular-catalan-police-chief
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Ukraine applied for this jurisdiction - they're hopeful of getting verdicts against Russia over its illegal annexation of Crimea.
Quote:Actually - no, it's not. It says Ukraine accepted the jurisdiction - not that Ukraine applied for it.
Originally posted by kpo:
(a quote or link) It's there in the first line in your own link
You DO know the difference between those two words - do you not? Or are you so dishonest you have to pretend they're the same?
It's one or the other. Being too stupid to understand the actual words in a text, or too dishonest to portray them accurately.
I'm going for dishonest.
Quote:And this has nothing to do with your laughable assertion that Kiev committed no war crimes EVER!
Originally posted by kpo:
By the way, the outcome of that jurisdiction was that last year the ICC ruled that Russia's annexation of Crimea was an "occupation" of Ukrainian territory, and that Russia was waging war against Ukraine in the Donbas.
But, while going through the actual report I did find this tidbit about the UK
https://www.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/otp/161114-otp-rep-PE_ENG.pdf
89.
Torture and other forms of ill-treatment
PIL and ECCHR alleged that the UK personnel committed systematically and on a large scale war crimes within the jurisdiction of the Court against at least 1071 Iraqi detainees pursuant to the UK Government’s deliberate policy of abuse of Iraqi detainees in the period from March 2003 through December 2008 on the territory of Iraq.
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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Quote:
Actually - no, it's not. It says Ukraine accepted the jurisdiction - not that Ukraine applied for it.
You DO know the difference between those two words - do you not?
Oh you dummy. I told you it was in the first sentence and then I underlined the relevant words for you, and you still miss it. Here it is again:
Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Today, 17 April 2014, the Registrar of the International Criminal Court (ICC), Herman von Hebel, received a declaration lodged by Ukraine accepting the ICC's jurisdiction
A declaration lodged by Ukraine. Lodged by Ukraine. Lodged by Ukraine. Keep reading this until it sinks in. Read the rest of your link as well; it might help you, and to be honest you should be reading your own links anyway. See this bit under 'Background':
Quote:
The ICC is based on a treaty, the Rome Statute, joined by 122 countries. A State may decide to ratify the Rome Statute but may also make a declaration under article 12-3 of the Statute declaring its acceptance of the Court's jurisdiction.
A declaration lodged by Ukraine. Lodged by Ukraine. Lodged by Ukraine.
Let's all see if kiki gets it this time.
Quote:
And this has nothing to do with your laughable assertion that Kiev committed no war crimes EVER!
In Crimea, and yes. Give ONE example.
Quote:
But, while going through the actual report I did find this tidbit about the UK
That's nice, did you find the bit I asked for, where you were going to back up your claim that 90% of civilian deaths are attributable to "shelling carried out by Kiev orders"? Or are you full of shit again?
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Ukraine submitted a declaration accepting the ICC's jurisdiction.
So?
Quote:
“Lodge” means to deliver to the Clerk a document which is tendered to the Court but is not approved for filing, such as depositions, exhibits, or a proposed form of order.
Quote:
lodge: to make formal statement about something to a public organisation or authority
Just for reference, here's your assertion that Ukraine applied for the jurisdiction, specifically against Russia, neither of which is shown in the document.
Quote:You finally did get that Ukraine lodged a declaration.
Originally posted by kpo:
Ukraine applied for this jurisdiction - they're hopeful of getting verdicts against Russia over its illegal annexation of Crimea.
Quote:And you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Originally posted by kpo:
A declaration lodged by Ukraine. Lodged by Ukraine. Lodged by Ukraine. Keep reading this until it sinks in.
A declaration lodged by Ukraine. Lodged by Ukraine. Lodged by Ukraine.
It's a level of legal documentation with less standing than filing.
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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I have found NO reports by any international or European body that documents evidence the freedom fighters shelled civilians. But there IS evidenced documentation Kiev forces shelled civilians. Perhaps I should raise my number to 100%.
http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Countries/UA/OHCHRThematicReportUkraine
Jan2014-May2016_EN.pdf
Recorded instances of shelling are inbound to Luhansk.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/07/24/ukraine-unguided-rockets-killing-c
ivilians (Human Rights Watch)
... a Human Rights Watch investigation on the ground strongly indicates that Ukrainian government forces were responsible for the attacks that occurred between July 12 and 21. The four attacks took place close to the front line ...
Just for reference, here's your assertion.
Quote:... for example, from the UN and Human Rights Watch.
Originally posted by kpo:
In UKRAINE we have:
1. No war crimes committed by the Ukrainian government, ever. But some hype, manufactured scare stories and propaganda ...
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Ukraine submitted a declaration accepting the ICC's jurisdiction.
Hooray!
Quote:
So?
So? YOU posted this link as evidence of Kiev war crimes - when in actuality it was Kiev who secured the jurisdiction of the ICC to investigate crimes in Ukrainian territory, and the outcome was the ruling that Crimea is being illegally occupied by Russia, and that Russia is a belligerent in the war in Ukraine's east.
All of which is a complete embarrassment for you, and shows up your lazy and dishonest approach of googling for things that back up your worldview and then either cherry picking, or dumping links without reading them and hoping nobody else does. Which I see you have done again in your most recent post...
Quote:
I have found NO reports by any international or European body that documents evidence the freedom fighters shelled civilians. But there IS evidenced documentation Kiev forces shelled civilians.
You are so full of shit. Go on then, which "international or European bodies" are you talking about? The UN? Amnesty International? HRW? The OSCE?
Quote:
Just for reference, here's your assertion.
Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
In UKRAINE we have:
Very illuminating that whenever you get backed into a corner you respond with blatant lying. Siggy puts words in people's mouths; you doctor people's words. Lying and hoping nobody notices... It's worth keeping that in mind for whenever you claim anything - like that you don't read RT. Kiki is a liar.
So I'll ask again. In CRIMEA: can you give one example of Ukraine committing war crimes? Siggy, feel free to chime in as well. This was your idea, remember, a point by point comparison between Kosovo and Crimea?
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Quote:They accepted the jurisdiction of the ICC. That word is in the title and text of the linked article. https://www.icc-cpi.int/legalAidConsultations?name=pr997 Ukraine accepts ICC jurisdiction over alleged crimes committed between 21 November 2013 and 22 February 2014 "Today, 17 April 2014, the Registrar of the International Criminal Court (ICC), Herman von Hebel, received a declaration (statement) lodged (submitted, a lesser legal status than filing) by Ukraine accepting the ICC's jurisdiction ..."
Originally posted by krappo:
when in actuality it was Kiev who secured the jurisdiction of the ICC
There's a big difference between 'accepting' and 'securing'.
Not that I expect a propagandist and chronic liar like you at admit that.
Aaaaaaand, just for reference, here's your assertion.
Quote:This is a direct quote from you to Signy, posted Monday, October 2, 2017 2:33 PM. Did I 'doctor people's words'? Not unless you consider word-for-word quoting 'doctoring'.
Originally posted by krappo:
In Crimea we have:
1. No war crimes committed by the Ukrainian government, ever. But some hype, manufactured scare stories and propaganda
Aaaaaaand, once again, you lied.
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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