Real World Event Discussions
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria
POSTED BY: kpo
UPDATED: Monday, September 8, 2025 15:48
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Thursday, August 24, 2017 1:38 AM
Quote:No, you keep being wrong. That's why I brought up Assad gassed his own people
But we keep being right- KRAPO
Here's another case where you were wrong: Proshenko claims he destroyed a Russian military convoy in Ukraine. A reporter witnessed a a convoy of 23 Russian vehicles, crossing over into Ukrainian territory, running with the lights on through an unguarded part of the border. Prosohenko claims the mighty Ukrainian military shelled it and destroyed it. None other than the NATO Secretary General, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, claimed this was true!
This is what I said about it at the time:
Quote:NO EVIDENCE. This particular unprovable incident, which might very possibly have been a photo shoot and propaganda-piece by Kiev, was the basis for the original "Russia invades Ukraine" claim.
From what I've read so far, since everybody uses the same or similar equipment, it would be hard to tell the difference between a Kiev-controlled APC and a Russian one except by close examination ....
If the convoy was destroyed, there should be a line of burned-out APCs visible by satellite or drone. There should be prisoners or bodies. But again, no photos, no evidence, no on-the-ground examination.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=58499&p=1
Here are a few more cases where you were wrong:
Quote:http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=58499&p=3
So, in your opinion, the USA invaded Panama to stop drug flow, but didn't make a dent in it. The USA bombed Afghanistan to destroy the Taliban and bring democracy, but failed. The USA embargoed, bombed, invaded and occupied Iraq in order to topple a tyrant and bring freedom to the people, and after 10 years and a trillion dollars left a great smoking clusterfuck of ruin. The USA and NATO bombed Libya to support pro-democracy rebels' fight against Qaddafi, but wound up promoting jihadists instead. The USA fomented rebellion in Syria to topple (yet another) tyrant, and wound up arming and funding ISIl/ISIS/IS. The USA agitated to split South Sudan from Sudan to save the black Xtian South Sudanese from their Arab Muslim northern overlords, and ended up with a corrupt government and civil war.
In each case, what was missing was EVIDENCE for military intervention.
This very thread Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria was birthed in confirmation bias and steeped in prejudicial (prejudicial = to PREJUDGE] anecdote.
Quote:My alternate theories are alternate THEORIES, not alternate conclusions. The reason why I bring them up is to inform you that there are multiple possible explanations. Unlike you, I refuse to settle on one fixed conclusion until there's enough evidence to analyze.
... and all your alternate theories keep being wrong.- KRAPO
-----------
By the way, GSTRING, I predicted your response PERFECTLY
* ... and then you'll say I'm "too wordy". And then you will - as always- refuse to address the pertinent points, and respond with even more lies and even more bullshit personal attacks.*
And voila! Here it is http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61835&mid=1
035581#1035581
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Thursday, August 24, 2017 4:36 AM
Quote:
No, you keep being wrong.
Every one of the 4 examples I gave of me (and others) being right has been verified by official bodies - weapons inspectors, official MH17 investigators and the Russian government actually confessing. So what higher authority are you citing to tell me I'm wrong? Zerohedge? Your own "expertise"? You know better from behind your computer than weapons and aviation experts who've analysed the physical evidence?
Quote:
Here's another case where you were wrong: Proshenko claims he destroyed a Russian military convoy in Ukraine... NO EVIDENCE. This particular unprovable incident
First of all: STRAWMAN. Neither I, nor anyone else on this board (as far as I know) asserted that Poroshenko's claim was true. Second: utter logic fail. You think that a lack of evidence means that a claim is definitely wrong?? No. A lack of evidence means just that - a lack of evidence. Something can be completely true and still, for various reasons, lack evidence.
Quote:
Here are a few more cases where you were wrong:
Oh piss off. Now you're just quoting one of your rants from another thread??
Quote:
Unlike you, I refuse to settle on one fixed conclusion until there's enough evidence to analyze.
Ha, you utter clown, that's exactly what you've just done, repeatedly. "Assad didn't gas his own people", "Russia didn't send a convoy into Ukraine". The evidence is to the contrary for both of these "fixed conclusions", but more than that, you categorically can NOT prove them. I'll give you a clue: it's logically impossible. And yet here you are, stating these two conclusions as facts.
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"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Thursday, August 24, 2017 6:31 AM
Quote:Yeah, uh huh.
No, you keep being wrong. Every one of the 4 examples I gave of me (and others) being right has been verified by official bodies - weapons inspectors, official MH17 investigators and the Russian government actually confessing.
Cites and links, please
Quote:
So what higher authority are you citing to tell me I'm wrong? Zerohedge? Your own "expertise"? You know better from behind your computer than weapons and aviation experts who've analysed the physical evidence?
Okie dokie. Your ridiculous "four examples"
Quote:I never said it didn't happen, so what ARE you going on about? HOWEVER, they also held a referendum, which I said should be repeated under official international observation to confirm the results.
Russia annexing Crimea with its "little green men".- KRAPO
Quote:I never said Russia wasn't "waging a war", in fact, I believe I called it a PROXY WAR. So, what ARE you going on about? What I said was that it didn't rise to the definition of INVASION. And, it doesn't.
Russia waging war in the Donbass.-KRAPO
Quote:I never said it wasn't. Shortly afterwards, I pointed out several different theories as to who might have shot it down, and pointed out ADDITIONAL DATA that should be available for analysis in order to reach a solid conclusion. That additional data has since been collected. Legal liability has not yet been assigned. "Russia did it" is unproven so far.
MH17 being shot down by a Buk from separatist territory.- KRAPO
Quote:I never said it wasn't Sarin. In fact, just a few posts up from here, this is what I said
The Khan Shaykun attack being Sarin.- KRAPO
Quote:
It would be instructive to drill down on this data.
How many samples were brought to the FFM? Five? A hundred?
How were they geographically distributed at the original site?
Out of all of the samples brought to the FFM, how many showed Sarin residue?
Was it in expected concentrations? Were they able to look for impurities and stabilizers?
Did they test for anything else?
What I was more interested in was the picture of the so-called "missile" which "delivered" the chemical weapon, because the missile tube looks like it was CRUSHED FROM THE OUTSIDE IN THE MIDDLE.
Quote:Except GSTRING, who posted in support of his previous post about the so-called invasion
Here's another case where you were wrong: Proshenko claims he destroyed a Russian military convoy in Ukraine... NO EVIDENCE. This particular unprovable incident ... SIGNY
First of all: STRAWMAN. Neither I, nor anyone else on this board (as far as I know) asserted that Poroshenko's claim was true.
Quote:
Russian military has moved into Ukraine - fact.- GSTRING
Quote:When someone is making a claim, and the evidence is easy to see, and should be easily obtainable, and it is in their best interest to provide it, why would it not be made available?
Second: utter logic fail. You think that a lack of evidence means that a claim is definitely wrong?? No. A lack of evidence means just that - a lack of evidence. Something can be completely true and still, for various reasons, lack evidence.
I can understand that evidence can be elusive. It can be hard to suss out from noise, it could be inaccessible, or (the bane of science) not entirely reproducible, but for someone Like Poroshenko ... who has had a history of lying and the NATO Scy General to make a claim, you would think they WOULD produce the evidence.
Quote:YEP! Because it sure saves typing, and just show you how long ago I was proving you wrong! And you're STILL wrong.
Here are a few more cases where you were wrong: .... SIGNY
Oh piss off. Now you're just quoting one of your rants from another thread??= KRAPO
Quote:
Unlike you, I refuse to settle on one fixed conclusion until there's enough evidence to analyze.- SIGNY
Ha, you utter clown, thNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Thursday, August 24, 2017 10:04 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:I never said it didn't happen, so what ARE you going on about?
Russia annexing Crimea with its "little green men".- KRAPO
Here's you arguing it didn't happen:
Signym: "But, yes, there were "little green men" in Crimea, in the background and not doing anything, as far as I - or anyone- can tell."
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=58021&p=1
Quote:
I never said it wasn't Sarin.
Here's you saying it wasn't sarin:
Signym: "As far as I can tell, this attack was just as phony as the "Assad gassed his own people in Ghouta" story. One telling point- for those who have not bothered to look into the evidence - is that the "rescuers" were handling the "victims" with bare hands. If the CW agent were really Sarin, the "rescuers" themselves would have been dead. That is an .incontrovertible. fact. Ergo, everyone who says it was "sarin" is lying or mistaken."
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61551&p=2
Quote:
Quote:
MH17 being shot down by a Buk from separatist territory.- KRAPO
I never said it wasn't.
Ha, actually you said several times that Kiev was to blame for MH17. But you don't seem to understand what you are being accused of. You seem to have lost the thread of the whole argument. I gave 4 examples where I was right (and others) and where YOU argued otherwise. Now, your arguing otherwise was not always saying we were 100% wrong - you sometimes simply pushed alternate (false) theories hard, and accused us of "rushing to judgement". But we were right. And you were arguing against the truth. Repeatedly. This is my point, and you can't deny it.
Quote:
Quote:
First of all: STRAWMAN. Neither I, nor anyone else on this board (as far as I know) asserted that Poroshenko's claim was true.
Except GSTRING
That's a lie. G posted that he didn't believe Poroshenko's claim at all.
I may respond to the rest of your post later, but that's enough for now.
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Friday, August 25, 2017 12:27 AM
Quote:No, that is me arguing that there WERE "little green men" in Crimea. But. what did they "DO" to annex it? Did they call in bombing runs, roll tanks thru the streets, or shell Crimea? Did they even shoot anyone? I think if they weren't already broadly welcome or at least tolerated by the population at large, there would have been popular resistance. Since there wasn't, it seems to me that separation of Crimea from Ukraine was largely motivated by the population itself, not "caused by" the "little green men".
Russia annexing Crimea with its "little green men".- KRAPO
I never said it didn't happen, so what ARE you going on about?
Here's you arguing it didn't happen:
Signym: "But, yes, there were "little green men" in Crimea, in the background and not doing anything, as far as I - or anyone- can tell."
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=58021&p=1
Which is why I would like to see the referendum repeated with official (UN) international observers, to validate the result (or not) and separate out the role of the "little green men" from the vote.
Quote:Okay, I did say it wasn't Sarin. And it probably wasn't, for those bodies.
I never said it wasn't Sarin.- SIGNY
Here's you saying it wasn't sarin:
Signym: "As far as I can tell, this attack was just as phony as the "Assad gassed his own people in Ghouta" story. One telling point- for those who have not bothered to look into the evidence - is that the "rescuers" were handling the "victims" with bare hands. If the CW agent were really Sarin, the "rescuers" themselves would have been dead. That is an .incontrovertible. fact. Ergo, everyone who says it was "sarin" is lying or mistaken."
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61551&p=2
But in light of the results that Sarin was detected, I revised my understanding with the later questions ... How many samples? etc.
Here's why:
One plausible scenario for the Sarin attack on East Ghouta was that the "rebels" themselves released the liquid. This is reported by Seymour Hersh, here is one such report https://www.lrb.co.uk/v35/n24/seymour-m-hersh/whose-sarin
In - literally- the day following the attack, it was noted by Mother Agnes (a Catholic nun in Syria) some of the same children were seen, over and over, in different places and different photos, and that some of the (unique) victims appears to be being injected with something. (Why would you inject a dead body with anything?) I've posted the stills of those "recycled" victims already; it's very clear that the "rebels" - if nothing else- know how to make a good photo-op out of a tragedy and inflate the number of victims; and this would be even easier if the whole attack was pre-planned. There's more to the story than this, but I'm only going to lightly reference the "White Helmets" handling (or mishandling) of victims in some of their videos to note that the "rebels" - like the jihadists - know how to make good use of the media.
The attack in Khan Shaykhun might have been very much the same: Perpetrated by the "rebels", who inflated the number of victims. Since ALL of the evidence was provided by the "rebels", I would be interested in know, for example, if any blood samples were taken from the victims, how many samples were taken, and if they showed the concentration that one might expect from a fatal dose of Sarin, or if the concentration appears to be incidental. Similarly, if environmental samples - leaves, rocks - collected from the site and mapped against the impact describe a plume which would account for the number of victims. And finally, a close examination of the missile tube body photo, which appears to be damaged in the middle.
Quote:
MH17 being shot down byNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Friday, August 25, 2017 4:58 AM
Quote:
No, that is me arguing that there WERE "little green men" in Crimea. But. what did they "DO" to annex it?
Putin has already admitted the military operation to take Crimea, he's even handed out medals to the Russian troops who took part... Why are you still arguing this? You're like that Japanese soldier who refused to surrender 30 years after WW2. YOU WERE WRONG SIG (and for some reason you insist on still being wrong).
Quote:
Okay, I did say it wasn't Sarin.
Good.
Quote:
And it probably wasn't, for those bodies.
And I almost respected you there a little, for a minute.
Quote:
The "Russian invasion of Ukraine" never happened, not even in Crimea.
Assad probably did not "gas his own people".
I give you 4 facts where you've been proved wrong, and you counter with... your opinions, stated as fact. Yawn.
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Friday, August 25, 2017 5:21 PM
Signy saying Kiev was responsible for shooting down MH17:
"Based on my reading, I’d guess that it was the Ukranian government behind the shootdown, mistaking it for Putin’s plane that reportedly was in the area."
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=58499&p=15
"when all is said and done- eventually we'll probably find out that it was... neo-Nazis who brought down MH17."
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=58499&p=9
Really interesting to go back through that old thread with the benefit of proof and hindsight, to see Siggy relentlessly spewing bullshit and trashing all of us who were speaking the truth.
God bless Ctrl-F.
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Friday, August 25, 2017 8:44 PM
I hope you realize the final report that assigns criminal blame has been withheld and left to the individual governments to pursue.
But I guess that doesn't stop YOU from pretending that that information is available and that your posts are based on information! Which, to be perfectly clear, they're not.
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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Friday, August 25, 2017 11:44 PM
Kiki, Signy's link is a good place to start to bring yourself up to speed:
Quote:
Nederland - The Joint Investigation Team (JIT) is convinced of having obtained irrefutable evidence to establish that on 17 July 2014, flight MH-17 was shot down by a BUK missile from the 9M38-series. According to the JIT there is also evidence identifying the launch location that involves an agricultural field near Pervomaiskyi which, at the time, was controlled by pro-Russian fighters.
https://www.politie.nl/en/news/2016/september/28/jit-flight-mh17-was-s
hot-down-by-a-buk-missile-from-a-farmland-near-pervomaiskyi.html
At this stage, what do you think is the most likely explanation for the downing of MH17 kiki? Do you have any alternative theory that hasn't already been shot to pieces? Do you think, perhaps, that the Buk missile was shot from separatist territory by the Ukrainian army?
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Saturday, August 26, 2017 2:01 AM
Quote:So, what were the medals for? Bravery under fire? A small group of lightly-armed men holding out against overwhelming odds?
No, that is me arguing that there WERE "little green men" in Crimea. But. what did they "DO" to annex it? - SIGNY
Putin has already admitted the military operation to take Crimea, he's even handed out medals to the Russian troops who took part... - KRAPO
NOPE! The medals were for "helping Crimea self-determinate", and they were also awarded to the Night Wolves (a motorcycle club).
KRAPO, when you have a military force taking and holding territory from a formal hostile military force and a hostile population, it quite often involves air support, artillery, tanks, and ground forces, followed by a military occupation- a classic "invasion". Did that happen in Crimea? No.
When you have a military force taking and holding territory from a hostile military force and a FRIENDLY population, that still involves an invasion, but the people are waving happily at the incoming forces, and most often WE call that "liberation". Did that happen in Crimea? Not really, because there was no military invasion, not even violence.
When you have a military force taking and holding territory against a hostile population, quite often you will see guerrilla warfare as a result. Did that happen in Crimea? Not that either.
I really think the best description of what happened is that Russia sent in - in effect - militarized police, into an area where the population was quite friendly. Your various contortions into trying to describe the separation of Crimea as some sort of military invasion just really doesn't fit what happened. I'm not sure how international law applies to "separatist" movements, but I think this was one of them.
Quote:KRAPO, I'm not saying that Sarin wasn't used at Kayn Shakoun. It's just that the "White Helmets" are pretty good at maximizing photo-ops. Anyone bare-handedly manipulating the body of someone of who was exposed to a lethal dose of Sarin can themselves be exposed to a lethal dose of Sarin. Victims should have their clothes removed and be washed first. Maybe these people are incredibly casual and incredibly lucky, but it sure looks hinky seeing a presumed Sarin victim being handled like that.
Okay, I did say it wasn't Sarin. - SIGNY
Good.- KRAPO
And it probably wasn't, for those bodies.- SIGNY
And I almost respected you there a little, for a minute.- KRAPO
I want to go back to Ghouta and Khan Shaykhun. I did further fact-hunting on Ghouta, because the UN Inspectors had a chance to personally investigate the scene, since they were just-arrived in Syria to discuss three other instances of chemical weapons. What happened in Khan Shaykun is hopelessly obscured by the fact that none of the evidence was collected by a third party.
The UN weapons inspectors realized that the sites had already been disturbed, but their inspectors did mention that they took samples under proper chain of custody, carried them under military guard, and split them with Syrian authorities. Two different UN officials said the following
1) Ake Sellstrom, Chief UN weapons inspector in Syria: "The building material was quite soft, so we were able to talk about the trajectory because we could follow the rocket through lightweight building material and into the soil. We could sample on the way and get a picture that fitted." http://www.cbrneworld.com/_uploads/download_magazines/Sellstrom_Feb_20
14_v2.pdf
2) Angela Kane, UN High Representative for Disarmament Affairs at the time. 'No sarin detected in West Ghouta environment, only in human samples' So in 30 environmental samples, NONE of them showed Sarin?
In the RT video, Kane rules out the possibility that Sarin could have evaporated in five days, and chalks up the lack of finding to
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