Voter fraud - American election vastly corrupted

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Originally posted by JenDandy:
A question for Ghoulman, not to offend, just out of curiousity (plus you can't get angry at someone who knows bugger all about politics, am I right?):

If you're in Canada why do you care so much about what's going on in the U.S.? No country is perfect, not even yours, surely so if you feel so strongly about politics -forgive me if you have before- why don't you start some threads on what's wrong with where you live?

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Let's remember - most Canadians prolly know more about the USA than most Americans. We live right on the border as if we truely desire to be as exciting as the USA... and that's true. We get all your media and crap as well as our own. We also pay attention to world news more than Americans. Just saying we are more informed just because we have the best of both worlds.

Canadians are very political by nature. We are a nation of people who talk about two things constantly - the weather and politics.

And I could go on about balless Canadian chrome suckers who bend over for corporate monopolies and the theiving of the resources by Ottawa or the fact Canada is nothing more than "Mexico North".

George W. Bush represents not just a massive shift to the Right Wing, Ronald Reagan did that, but a shift towards open fascism.

Just because FOX doesn't report the beatings, the jailings, and the fraud doesn't mean the USA isn't in a state of fear and repression.

And Canadians care about the USA, we call it "sleeping with the elephant". So don't role over!

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Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
read the article excerpts that points it out here:

The article is here, but now you need registration.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23580-2004Nov3.html

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Hey, I could go and get some article too.
"Is there a connection between VNS closing its doors, the increase use of computerized voting machines, and the growing disparity between pre-election polling predictions and election results - a disparity that appears to heavily favor Republican candidates? Are we witnessing election fraud on a massive scale and is VNS involved?

http://www.rense.com/general33/suspicionsurroundsVNS.htm

It's not like there aren't other opinions out there.

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Originally posted by Radhil:
Kerry's campaign HQ in Ohio would have had a bunch of people side-by-side with local election boards to try and get their own estimates on all votes counted. Their very own system of exit polls, as it were. Not to mention pestering the state office - on phone and likely even in person and on site for real accuracy - for full information on the provisional ballot situation. Not to mention the army of lawyers prepared to unleash all hell if there was a reason to.

Kerry's main HQ would've sucked every factual detail dry from that Ohio office (and they in turn every other person down the food chain) before he made that concession call.

No serious US politician relies on media reports. They find out up front.

This of course highlights it's own problems - namely the US's massive bullshit production and all the crap necessary to avoid it - that you may point out as you like.

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Great stuff - I wish I could find an insider view of the methods used as you lay them out. If anything it seems a real mess to me. Besides, who actually does the counting? As far as I know, it's the three private companies I mention in my first post.

Thanks for the info. If I find more I'll append to your info. You're the best. Nice work.

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Originally posted by Ghoulman:

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Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
read the article excerpts that points it out here:

The article is here, but now you need registration.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23580-2004Nov3.html

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Hey, I could go and get some article too.
"Is there a connection between VNS closing its doors, the increase use of computerized voting machines, and the growing disparity between pre-election polling predictions and election results - a disparity that appears to heavily favor Republican candidates? Are we witnessing election fraud on a massive scale and is VNS involved?

http://www.rense.com/general33/suspicionsurroundsVNS.htm

It's not like there aren't other opinions out there.

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No, there isn't a shortage of opinions or badpress out there. In this specific case, they got (and used) the first batch of data. Preliminary data, together with misunderstanding and bad interpretation, which didn't result in a whole lot of anything. The point is, you can cut the exit poll about 16 different ways along the day, and the instaneous projections would be different at various times of the day depending on weather, voting patterns, school hours, work hours, etc. I wouldn't disagree that at some point in the day, Kerry was in the lead, then another point Bush was, then Kerry, then Bush. We can have a field day talking and arguing about this, and all the while, the papers and the reporters are laughing their heads off.




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Well... more and more this is looking like the largest voter fraud in American history.

Remember, it's far from over.

The Ultimate Felony Against Democracy
By Thom Hartmann
CommonDreams.org
Thusday 4 November 2004
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/110604Z.shtml

Maybe Florida went for Kerry, maybe for Bush. Over time - and through the efforts of some very motivated investigative reporters - we may well find out (Bev Harris of www.blackboxvoting.org just filed what may be the largest Freedom of Information Act [FOIA} filing in history), and bloggers and investigative reporters are discovering an odd discrepancy in exit polls being largely accurate in paper-ballot states and oddly inaccurate in touch-screen electronic voting states Even raw voter analyses are showing extreme oddities in touch-screen-run Florida, and eagle-eyed bloggers are finding that news organizations are retroactively altering their exit polls to coincide with what the machines ultimately said.

...

Most important, though, the rallying cry of the emerging "honest vote" movement must become: Get Corporations Out Of Our Vote!

Why have we let corporations into our polling places, locations so sacred to democracy that in many states even international election monitors and reporters are banned? Why are we allowing corporations to exclusively handle our vote, in a secret and totally invisible way? Particularly a private corporation founded, in one case, by a family that believes the Bible should replace the Constitution; in another case run by one of Ohio's top Republicans; and in another case partly owned by Saudi investors?

Of all the violations of the commons - all of the crimes against We The People and against democracy in our great and historic republic - this is the greatest. Our vote is too important to outsource to private corporations.

SO it's clear everything I've said has indeed become the centre of American discourse. And now I see why I sound like some Blogger *chuckle*, I'd no idea... really. The only blog I go near is Tom Tomorrow and that's mostly for the cartoons.

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the fraud is not made up... it was even on t.v where most people get their news where this woman kept selecting Kerry and it would choose Bush

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You know, for some reason this doesn't jive with me. I think it's because there were SEVERAL web sites that had jokes about this. The Bush button would stay in one spot and the Kerry would move around if you tried to click it. Then, you'd finally get to click on it and it would count it as a Bush vote..... Yeah, ok. Anyhow, one lone lady has a problem voting where it would do that. If that did it to me, I would walk to the people running the polling place and tell them to give me another machine. If it still didn't work, I would ask for a paper ballot. If she were stupid enough not to pursue getting it corrected while she was there, then her vote doesn't count. I have no pity for those too lazy to do anything when it matters the most. But, if it did have issues and they didn't listen to her, THEN there would be a problem, but, for some reason I have the feeling that she kept hitting the wrong button.

And Ghoulman, in reference to your "Americans are repressed" comment, 70% of the people in the US are happy. 20% bitch too much, and, yes, there is about 10% who have been screwed with, messed up, or repressed. Now, that being said, considering back before the Unions started, women AND CHILDREN were FORCED to work in factories with little or no pay!!! Ok, do we have that, now? No! Are things here perfect, by no means! Just like up in the land of the maple leaf, we have issues. But, since we are the center of attention for a lot of things, we are under a whole hell of a lot more scrutiny. Canada can (and probably is) as corrupt as the US, if not more so! You cannot be autonomous, you cannot be unbiased to at least some degree. To be human is to be biased.

I agree with you, there probably is corruption. But you should never count something as maliciousness that which you can attribute to stupidity. Whether it be the polling places that are at fault, or the voters themselves (my personal theory), "Never underestimate stupid people in large groups".

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^^^ 70% are happy? lol! What reality are you on?


Anyho' ...

Watch how fast all the trolls come out to complain that I'm complaining.

KERRY WON. HERE ARE THE FACTS.
TomPaine.com
Friday Nov 5, 2004
by Greg Palast
http://www.gregpalast.com
LINK - http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=392&row=0

I know you don't want to hear it. You can't face one more hung chad. But I don't have a choice. As a journalist examining that messy sausage called American democracy, it's my job to tell you who got the most votes in the deciding states. Tuesday, in Ohio and New Mexico, it was John Kerry.
... ...
So what's going on here? Answer: the exit polls are accurate. Pollsters ask, "Who did you vote for?" Unfortunately, they don't ask the crucial, question, "Was your vote counted?" The voters don't know.

GO TO THIS ARTICLE FOR YOUR FACTS ... for once, read the damn thing America.

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And here is a link to a list of stories... there are lots.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/november2004/031104votefraud.htm

I finally found a comment from an international elections observer about this pathetic election. You prolly will not hear this on US TV transmitions since the Corporate Media have supressed what the rest of the world has already determined is, by definition, a coupe in the USA... again!

Russian Observer Shocked by U.S. Election Procedures

MosNews | November 3 2004
A Russian parliamentarian taking part in international monitoring of the U.S. presidential elections has said that the elections were held in violation of U.S. law and that that he was shocked after seeing how the elections were held.

The Interfax news agency cited State Duma deputy Aleksei Ostrovsky of the Liberal Democratic Party as saying that he was shocked by the way the elections were held in the U.S.

“In my opinion there are possibilities to forge the elections results and these possibilities are caused by serious, as we see it, violations of the electoral law,” the MP said in a telephone interview.

The parliamentarian noted that primarily he was shocked by the fact that U.S. citizens do not produce any ID as they come to polling stations. “It is enough to say ’I am Mr. Smith,’ and he is allowed to vote; the same person can exit one polling station and go to another and vote again using the same procedure,” the Russian MP said.

Ostrovsky also noted that all Americans who he talked to had said they did not like voting by computer. “Often people simply do not understand how to vote and nobody really tries to explain it to them,” the observer said.

Apart from Aleksei Ostrovsky two more Russian parliamentarians are observing the U.S. presidential elections under the aegis of the OSCE. They are the deputy chief of State Duma’s International Affairs Committee Aleksandr Kozlovsky of the United Russia faction and a member of the Committee for Affairs of Federation and Regional Policy, Leonid Ivanchenko of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation.

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Since more is what you want.


Foreign monitors barred from some US polling stations: OSCE observer
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20041102/pl_afp/us_vote_o
bservers_osce_041102225157
Tue Nov 2, 5:51 PM ET
COPENHAGEN (AFP) - Some observers from the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE (news - web sites)), a Europe-wide security and rights forum, were barred from entering some polling stations in the United States, one of them said.

... SNIP! ...

... and three other delegation members had been well received by local representatives of the Democrat Party who had ensured their access to polling stations.

But Republicans were less welcoming. "We were denied entry to a local Republican office in Orlando," she told Ritzau: "They called the police, saying they had received guidelines from Washington to do so."

The OSCE team was invited by the State Department.

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