Syria and Ukraine, Catalan and Kurdistan: what do they have in common?
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Saturday, November 16, 2024 22:06
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Oh dear. It appears that G has no points to make.
Hillary is a WAR CANDIDATE, and that's just what we need, right? More war?
G, THUGR, MAL4: Oh BTW, please define intelligence.
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Oh dear. It appears that G has no points to make.= SIGNY
Quote:And KRAPO doesn't have any point to make either. Haters gonna hate, but thanks for the bump!
What's this Sig, you've given up on your campaigning for Trump and started bumping old threads of arguments that you've lost?= KRAPO
Hillary is a WAR CANDIDATE, and that's just what we need, right? More war?
G, THUGR, MAL4: Oh BTW, please define intelligence.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60903&p=4#1
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Calling me a "liar" is a really weak argument. = SIGNY
No it isn't. I've listed your lies before, so you saying I haven't is also a lie.
First of all
1) Reading is not your strong suit, is it? That's not what I said.
2) But now that you mention it: No, I don't recall you providing anyone with a "list of lies". Not even a list where we disagree.
3) And what does that have to do with this thread, anyway? This is a thread about making point-to-point comparisons between Ukraine and Syria, which I'm quite willing to do.
4) And YOU made the comparison yourself. Which ... now that you see where it logically went ... you want to reverse.
Quote:Well then, you've just demonstrated that you're a weenie.
You have to show me ... and as importantly you have to show other people ... where what I said is "false" and "misleading". On what points do the comparisons differ? Be specific. = SIGNY
I really don't have to show anyone anything. There are maybe 20 people here and I'm guessing that like this election, they've already made their mind up about you and me and anyone else posting.= G
Quote:I don't think I "look bad" in this thread... I was actually trying to explore the differences and similarities between Syria and Ukraine ... and, as it turns out, between Kosovo and Crimea ... in an open-minded way.
Curious - Why are you so happy for a bump for a thread where you look so bad? Kremlin still counting your posts? Is that what matters to you the most, Bump over Truth?
All I've come to discover is that, while I'm open to a regular non-violent process for secession, there are limits on that particular logic .... as there is to ANY logic, taken to extremes. Size is one impracticality, because a very small secessionist area wouldn't be self-sustaining- eg. Can a city secede? Can a person?
Also, ideology. There are some secessionist movements I would not support, specifically those creating vast inequalities among people, such as those which would depend on a singular leader having sway over many (Jonestown), those promoting a wealthy corrupt oligarchy (too many examples to mention, including the USA), those dependent on slavery, or those promoting differences based on sex, race, age, or caste.
Hillary is a WAR CANDIDATE, and that's just what we need, right? More war?
G, THUGR, MAL4: Oh BTW, please define intelligence.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60903&p=4#1
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Originally posted by G:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Calling me a "liar" is a really weak argument.
No it isn't. I've listed your lies before, so you saying I haven't is also a lie. Funny.Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You have to show me ... and as importantly you have to show other people ... where what I said is "false" and "misleading". On what points do the comparisons differ? Be specific.
I really don't have to show anyone anything. There are maybe 20 people here and I'm guessing that like this election, they've already made their mind up about you and me and anyone else posting.
Curious - Why are you so happy for a bump for a thread where you look so bad? Kremlin still counting your posts? Is that what matters to you the most, Bump over Truth?
Our troll is trolling G. And you're right. Everyone here knows it.
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But of course, in every post in every thread. She is a duty bound foot soldier.
Her being "okay with secession" is the spin from Commie HQ re: Crimea. "They wanted to be invaded, er, I mean freed. "
If anything T. I take some comfort in the fact that our Commies are such obvious Dummies.= GSTRING
Actually, being "OK with secession" would mean that I would also be OK with the secession of Kosovo - which was part of the breakup of Communist Yugoslavia, and certainly NOT a pro-Communist or pro-Russian event, as well as the formation of an independent Kurdistan from parts of Turkey, Syria, and Iraq - again, not good for Syria!
So speaking of being an obvious dummy- I guess I have to give you your obvious arguments!
LOGIC, G, can be your friend if you learn how to use it. Which you, apparently, have not.
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Now, I have to say that's it's obvious from this thread that NONE of you know how to have an objective discussion, or any kind of discussion at all! Since nobody has been able to forward an even remotely intelligent discussion on the topic, I've had to carry both sides of the discussion myself. And even when I hand you your talking points, this territory seems so unfamiliar to you you can't seem to navigate it properly.
Hillary is a WAR CANDIDATE, and that's just what we need, right? More war?
G, THUGR, MAL4: Oh BTW, please define intelligence.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60903&p=4#1
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Our troll is trolling G. And you're right. Everyone here knows it.
But of course, in every post in every thread. She is a duty bound foot soldier.
Her being "okay with secession" is the spin from Commie HQ re: Crimea. "They wanted to be invaded, er, I mean freed."
If anything T. I take some comfort in the fact that our Commies are such obvious Dummies.
OK, but for me it's humor. I take humor in the fact that our commies are such obvious dummies.
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Now, I have to say that's it's obvious from this thread that NONE of you know how to have an objective discussion, or any kind of discussion at all! Since nobody has been able to forward an even remotely intelligent discussion on the topic, I've had to carry both sides of the discussion myself. And even when I hand you your talking points, this territory seems so unfamiliar to you you can't seem to navigate it properly.
Yeah, that was soundly debunked by you many times. You are the queen of not knowing what a discussion is or being able to have one. Seriously - 2 years, you should have learned something about yourself.
SIG thinks we should receive her lies and subjective posts as factual, instead of as bullshit from notorious sources.
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In this entire thread, GSTRING, you have not once addressed the topic. This us your entire, hate-filled, TROLLING "contribution" to this thread:
Quote:
Those early Soviet Kikis always were a bit twitchy.
I *admire* how you are able to lie for yourself AND other people. You really should run for office. Seriously, there's enough stupid people who would listen to your noise that you could get elected to just about anything. 'Course, then you'd find out how you had absolutely no clue what you were talking about before hand. No worries! You'll just lie to yourself about that as well.
No it isn't. I've listed your lies before, so you saying I haven't is also a lie. Funny.
I really don't have to show anyone anything. There are maybe 20 people here and I'm guessing that like this election, they've already made their mind up about you and me and anyone else posting.
Curious - Why are you so happy for a bump for a thread where you look so bad? Kremlin still counting your posts? Is that what matters to you the most, Bump over Truth?
But of course, in every post in every thread. She is a duty bound foot soldier.
Her being "okay with secession" is the spin from Commie HQ re: Crimea. "They wanted to be invaded, er, I mean freed."
If anything T. I take some comfort in the fact that our Commies are such obvious Dummies.
Yeah, that was soundly debunked by you many times. You are the queen of not knowing what a discussion is or being able to have one. Seriously - 2 years, you should have learned something about yourself.
SIG thinks we should receive her lies and subjective posts as factual, instead of as bullshit from notorious sources.
And, just for completeness, here is THUGR'S complete "contribution" to the thread
Quote:
Not to worry kpo. We all see through the stupidity of her argument.
Our troll is trolling G. And you're right. Everyone here knows it.
OK, but for me it's humor. I take humor in the fact that our commies are such obvious dummies.
I's clear to me from the totality of your posts that you are both 100% trolls, and that you have had literally nothing to contribute over the totality of your posts, since you engage 100% in personal attacks.
So thanks for exposing yourselves as complete jackasses and haters. And, of course, haters are gonna hate, but - as always - thanks for the bump!
Hillary is a WAR CANDIDATE, and that's just what we need, right? More war?
G, THUGR, MAL4: Oh BTW, please define intelligence.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60903&p=4#1
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So aside from the fact that GSTRING's and THUGR's "contributions" were - as always- purely personal attacks, and KRAPO's "contributions" were a mish-mash of personal attacks and pure stupid bias ...
... one of the items that I brought up in this thread was the process of secession.
As I posted, there are powerful forces at work which promote organizations growing larger and larger, but no equivalent forces which promote the reverse. That's because secessions/ defections are almost always violently, or at least forcefully, fought by the umbrella nation (cartel, trade group etc.) Hence, we have a one-way, non-equilibrium system.
Two secessionist movements currently being opposed by western nations are Kurdistan and Catalan.
Iraq Kurds JUST held a vote for secession, and Spain is doing everything it can .... including impounding ballots, and closing and occupying polling places ... to derail the Catalan independence vote.
Just thought to bring this up, since it's a current event.
Also, that point-to-point comparison: It never happened. Maybe one day some of the posters here will see fit to actually THINK about what's going on, instead of being trolls.
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Ah, so this is the thread that I supposedly "avoided like the plague".
Looking back through it I see that I whooped you for a while, but then let you limp away. I didn't quite finish you off, and now you're crowing 
Let's see. We got to the point where I had you calling Hitler's annexation of the Sudetenland 'democratic', and unable to explain what the difference between a revolution and a coup was. But what is the point you're saying I ran from? Is it this?
Quote:
As you can see, KPO was stymied by the topic of Kosovo, because he was "for" Kosovo but "against" Crimea, for no reason other than prejudice.
That would be a pretty outrageous lie, given that I kicked your ass on Kosovo in at least two other threads before this one. See this thread (where I'm actually quoting an earlier thread) - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=59642
Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
For the record this was my attempt to have a rational discussion with you on this subject back in 2014:
KPO (2014):Quote:
Independence/secessionist movements need to be considered on a case by case basis, balancing such priniciples as the right of self-determination, national sovereignty, and the region's unique history. No two situations are the same, and no two people will balance all these factors in the same way. It should be noted that different Western countries have different stances on accepting Kosovo's independence or not.
In the case of Kosovo ethnic Serbs see the land as belonging to their country, but the people living there don't feel they belong to Serbia at all. They are mostly ethnic Albanian, and for nearly 500 years they lived under Muslim, Ottoman control. But the key factor in support for Kosovan independence is the campaign of terror and ethnic cleansing that the Serb government carried out against the ethnic Albanian population in the 90's. The UN ruled that Serbia had carried out a "systematic campaign of terror, including murders, rapes, arsons and severe maltreatments" and cited several war crimes and crimes against humanity including massacres of unarmed men, women and children, and the forced displacement of tens of thousands.
For me personally, I think it's quite harsh to expect the Kosovans to live again under Serbian rule, given the way the Serbian government treated them in the 1990s.
And what was your response?
Signy (2014):Quote:
And, on what grounds are these movements to be "considered"? Because as far as I can tell, the metric that you apply is: pro-western= good, not pro-western=bad. All of your blah blah blah about history and such is so much rationalization. You don't have a rigorous, well-thought-out view that you could apply equally to all situations; so you'll just grab whatever excuse you need to justify whatever you want to see happen.
In other words, you have a purely self-centered, exceptionalist* view of the world...
And you went on like that, completely ignoring everything I said and eventually quoting some bullshit RT story about mass graves of raped and murdered victims in a poor attempt at false equivalence.
And in this thread I pressed you repeatedly about Kosovo (and your own hypocrisy): http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=58499&p=10
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Quote:
You still haven't confirmed that you supported the Kosovo independence referendum of 1991.-KPO
That's because I don't know much about it. -Signym
So you see, for months I confronted you with your hypocrisy on Kosovo, and all you could do was plead ignorance. Then months later you post something on Kosovo that I didn't respond to, and you turn around and say that the subject has me "stymied"!
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"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
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