New Series

POSTED BY: SpaceGeneral
UPDATED: Saturday, May 29, 2004 02:29
VIEWED: 16802
PAGE 1 of 1

SPACEGENERAL

Saturday, May 22, 2004 1:59 PM

I hope Joss doesn't make a new series again until he does the following two things, get rid of half the crew, there's too many. The characters I see as being deleted are the couple, the priest and the prostitute.... These character are either duplicated elsewhere or unneccessary. The other thing is to introduce alien life forms, we can't be the only ones in space....

FIREFLEW

Saturday, May 22, 2004 2:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceGeneral:
I hope Joss doesn't make a new series again until he does the following two things, get rid of half the crew, there's too many. The characters I see as being deleted are the couple, the priest and the prostitute.... These character are either duplicated elsewhere or unneccessary. The other thing is to introduce alien life forms, we can't be the only ones in space....

Oh how I hope this be one of those jokey posts, which everyone likes so much

Jayne: "Know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I beat you with till you understand who's in command."

WINTERFELL

Saturday, May 22, 2004 2:55 PM

if it is a "jokey post", i don't get it. i mean what's the point? to say that in truth he really likes wash, zoe, inara, book, and the fact that there are no aliens in the story and (thankfully) never will be? Was it to spark some kind of debate about these characters/issues from the series? If it is a serious post, I find it even more laughable. cause really.. you don't understand the series at all then.

FIVEBYFIVE

Saturday, May 22, 2004 3:06 PM

Oh yeah, this is definitely a "joke post." It's just someone trying to piss off fans and get them to explain how wonderfully-wonderful the show is in great detail so he can be amused at getting a reaction. It's probably not Succatash, but since i'm contractually obligated to blame him for every fake post for the next 2 years, i'm saying it's him.

----------------------------
5x5: Alan Tudyk was in 28 Days, not 28 Days Later. There's a difference.
Paladin: So, no wacky zombie with a Hawaiian shirt, then?

DRAGONWINE

Saturday, May 22, 2004 5:35 PM

Spacegeneral? Like the one in Alien Resurrection? Well we all know what happened to him. By the way, nice hat!

To be an extra on Serenity is not a nothing part, unless you don't got it!

SPACEGENERAL

Monday, May 24, 2004 8:36 PM

Oh dear, Oh dear, Oh dear, weak responses. I find it unbelieveable a television series set in space and having no aliens. If you look at the success of other sci-fi's ( Farscape, Star Wars, Star Trek ) and then this, you will why they are successful and this isn't. If you're going to do a sci-fi based on a western premise without aliens, what's the point ? Am I missing something, please do tell.... I have to admit to watching just half the series and that was enough. I do think there are too many characters, some should be occassionals rather than regulars... Why do you need the couple, priest and the prosistute ? If you're going to answer weakly ( e.g. because they're great ) then don't answer at all....

It's arrogant to believe we are the only inhabitents of the Universe....

CALHOUN

Monday, May 24, 2004 8:42 PM

Quote:
SpaceGeneral wrote:
Monday, May 24, 2004 10:36

Am I missing something, please do tell....

That'd be your brain...

ZOID

Monday, May 24, 2004 8:50 PM

SpaceGeneral wrote:

Quote:
Oh dear, Oh dear, Oh dear, weak responses. I find it unbelieveable a television series set in space and having no aliens. If you look at the success of other sci-fi's ( Farscape, Star Wars, Star Trek ) and then this, you will why they are successful and this isn't. If you're going to do a sci-fi based on a western premise without aliens, what's the point ? Am I missing something, please do tell.... I have to admit to watching just half the series and that was enough. I do think there are too many characters, some should be occassionals rather than regulars... Why do you need the couple, priest and the prosistute ? If you're going to answer weakly ( e.g. because they're great ) then don't answer at all....

It's arrogant to believe we are the only inhabitents of the Universe....

I believe we are not alone in the universe. The problem is that the universe is such an awfully big place -- along the lines of 15 billion light years per radial from the long-lost point of the Big Bang -- that the chances of us ever running into any space-going intelligent lifeforms are slim indeed... Unless of course, you, SpaceGeneral, are trying to imply that you are one yourself!? (oh my god! it's hideous! oh, and look, there's something in a jar. ours is a peaceful race. we mean you no harm)

Humans are strange and menacing enough to spawn compelling drama without drumming up spurious aliens (which would be highly anthropomorphized in any case).

Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"I'm telling you right now. When all's said and done, that little girl's gonna change the world. Not just this little bit she's done here, neither; big things. I couldn't be prouder if she was my own daughter."

- Malcolm Reynolds, owner-operator of Firefly-class transport, "Serenity"; from A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence Wilkins, Richard

SPACEGENERAL

Monday, May 24, 2004 9:01 PM

How many planets exist in the Firefly Universe, surely Earth is not the only one that could sustain life on its own merit ?

It's arrogant to believe we are the only inhabitents of the Universe....

PEACE

Monday, May 24, 2004 9:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceGeneral:
Oh dear, Oh dear, Oh dear, weak responses. I find it unbelieveable a television series set in space and having no aliens. If you look at the success of other sci-fi's ( Farscape, Star Wars, Star Trek ) and then this, you will why they are successful and this isn't. If you're going to do a sci-fi based on a western premise without aliens, what's the point ? Am I missing something, please do tell.... I have to admit to watching just half the series and that was enough. I do think there are too many characters, some should be occassionals rather than regulars... Why do you need the couple, priest and the prosistute ? If you're going to answer weakly ( e.g. because they're great ) then don't answer at all....

It's arrogant to believe we are the only inhabitents of the Universe....

Spacegeneral, I do believe you are just trying to tick people off. Consider your effort ignored.

I will say, however, that the idea of an alienless universe is a refreshing departure from the run-of-the-mill scifi on TV (NextGen, etc.). One of my favorite sf authors, Lois McMaster Bujold, has created a universe in which there are no aliens-- only humans diversifying through natural selection and genetic manipulation to the point that THEY become aliens to one another. Now that's an interesting universe, in my book....

Oh, bugger! Now I have to wait for someone to wake up!

HUMBLE

Monday, May 24, 2004 9:07 PM

Go watch Power Rangers. I hear they got rid of half of them.

HOWDYROCKERBABY1

Monday, May 24, 2004 9:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceGeneral:
If you're going to do a sci-fi based on a western premise without aliens, what's the point ? B]

I'm still scratching my head as to what in the hell Aliens and Westerns have to do with each other

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
MAL: This is my scrap of nowhere. You go on and find your own.
SAFFRON: You can't just leave me here, on this
lifeless piece of crap moon...
MAL: Sure I can.
SAFFRON: I'll die.
MAL: Well, as a courtesy, you might start
getting busy on that, cause all this chatter ain't doin' me any kindness.

ANGELDOVE

Monday, May 24, 2004 10:13 PM

Quote:
It's arrogant to believe we are the only inhabitents of the Universe....

Why is it that people who have no valid argument to offer, throw out the afore mentioned quote? I'm supposed to be arrogant if I believe that there is no sentient life outside of our own? The pitiful excuse for an argument that statement is, leaves little to form a thought provoking and worthwhile debate about. However, in my arrogance, I believe I can. Scientifically there is little to suggest the possibility of aliens, especially in the form in which we like to create them. Scientists say that if alien life is found anywhere we could ever conceivably come in contact with it, it will be in a far different form than an actual sentient life form. Perhaps some goo that has organic elements not found anywhere on earth. I have to say, I like me my science. We use it to disprove theories of the Bible that suggest Earth is not billions but thousands of years old. And the beauty of it is that you can only disprove, never prove anything, leaving the future open to all kinds of new discoveries. I am not saying that its not possible, and neither is Joss Whedon. Just because the world he creates doesn't have aliens in it, doesn't mean that they don't exist in his mind, or in anyone else's mind, or at all. Just as his use of vampires and demons in his other shows does not mean he believes in them (which he doesn't) . Either way, those who share this belief are not arrogant, I am not running around shouting I am the greatest being in all the universe because there are no aliens! Hey, I would love to find life out there, and I think we should keep on looking, arrogance be damned!

As for the whole topic of this thread, it is a TV show, that we here at this board like. Each character is indispensable so much that Joss said he would not have done the movie if they hadn't all signed on to come back. Critics have raved about his ability to have nine rich and distinct characters on one show, instead of the cookie-cutter characters on other Sci Fi series that you can't tell apart after a while. Firefly is a character driven show, it is not about space, it is not about the future, these are all background elements that enhance the story that is really about the people on this ship. If you want aliens, mind-numbing characters, and a show about crap that has no relevance to the present, then go watch a different show…you certainly won't be happy at this one.

Was that strong enough for ya?

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the road less traveled by and they CANCELLED MY FRIKKIN' SHOW. I totally shoulda took the road that had all those people on it. Damn." --Joss

ZOPHIEL

Monday, May 24, 2004 10:20 PM

People, people, people.

Do *not* feed the trolls.

DARKJESTER

Monday, May 24, 2004 10:21 PM

Perhaps there is a Joss in an alternate universe who would agree with you. I'll let the Joss in this one call the shots on his show.

MAL "You only gotta scare him."
JAYNE "Pain is scary..."

KARENKAY99

Monday, May 24, 2004 10:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceGeneral:

get rid of half the crew
introduce alien life forms

if there are too many people and you need aliens, me thinks ya need to find another show.

"They say the snow on the roof is too heavy. They say the ceiling will cave in. His brains are in terrible danger."

NRKANGEL

Monday, May 24, 2004 11:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceGeneral:
Oh dear, Oh dear, Oh dear, weak responses.

I dunno...does anyone else get an impression of a little white rabbit with a big pocket watch wringing his hands?

Quote:

I find it unbelieveable a television series set in space and having no aliens.

You gotta love this guy...at least he's interested enough to seek us out in order to criticize a show of which he didn't watch half the episodes. Right kind of him to go through all that trouble seein' as as he's saddled with that cruel inability to spell sixth grade words. (It's supposed to be "unbelievable".)

I'm not making fun of the SpaceBunny. Believe it or not, it is very valuable to have a person like this post here. It's important to understand that people with uninformed opinions often make judgements on things it knows nothing about. It's a great life lesson. Hey, mayhap this was one of them decision-makers on Fox? You know the type...

"Well, the ratings weren't where we'd hoped they'd be by the fifth episode and the lack of aliens really detracted from the demographic that likes seeing actors with latex applications pretending to be from 'out there...' Yes, four points out of top for Nielsen's in it's time slot, but critical acclaim isn't everything... What? No, I never actually watched the show, we have people who do that for us, why?"

Where would Mal be without the Alliance? Exactly.
So, where would we be without this guy?

Hey, if he don't wanna watch the whole series but still asks fool questions and the like, (such as: "how many planets are inhabited by people...") that's his 'verse and he's welcome to populate it by his own damn self. For the rest of us, we can learn to just smile and nod like the opinion means something. (It's the neighborly thing to do, I'm thinking...)

Quote:

Am I missing something, please do tell.... It's arrogant to believe we are the only inhabitents of the Universe....

I surely think this person is missing something, and that's certain. However, it ain't our job to learn him better if comes around with an attitude for harping instead of learning.(I just love this style of talking...don't you?)

Besides, don't you think it's kind of arrogant to believe that only one kind of opinion or one kind of show is right for Sci-Fi? There's room enough for everyone if folk don't go shoving each other like they're worth more'n others. O'course, some folk just have to go shovin', them lacking manners and all.

(By the way...it's supposed to be spelled "inhabitants".)

ABSALON

Monday, May 24, 2004 11:56 PM

Quote:
I find it unbelieveable a television series set in space and having no aliens.

We're alone, deal with it. Even if there are aliens, they aint comin and they aint bringin Elvis back.

The odds of findin another life inhabited planet is astonomical, with an 'r' and probably other letters, and the chances of them being evolved enough for us to care about them are even bigger.
Or so more advanced they wouldn't care about us.

Face it they aint there, and if they are they aint comin.

oh, i'm going to that special part of hell

ABSALON

Monday, May 24, 2004 11:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceGeneral:
How many planets exist in the Firefly Universe, surely Earth is not the only one that could sustain life on its own merit ?

It's arrogant to believe we are the only inhabitents of the Universe....

About 70 planets.
Watch the show

oh, i'm going to that special part of hell

FIREFLYFRIEND

Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:19 AM

I really love this show, but I think Space General has made some good points. Besides I think the Reevers will turn out to be alieans. And its true that some people were confused by so many characters. Friends was a big success and it only had five regular characters. the other were occasional as Space general suggested.
There's no point in being mean just because people see ways to improve the show.

RKLENSETH

Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceGeneral:
How many planets exist in the Firefly Universe, surely Earth is not the only one that could sustain life on its own merit ?

It's arrogant to believe we are the only inhabitents of the Universe....

Hundreds but all of them terroformed by humans. They weren't habitable until terraforming. Some still aren't habitable as you will see if you watch the series even though humans still live on them.

The premise of the show is that humans leave Earth after they use it up. They then terraform a whole new galaxy of planets to live on. The premise of the show is that humans can be just as much alien than any aliens you can dress up to look nice. The show says that aliens don't exist, it says they humans haven't come across them yet or made first contact. The premise of the show is that the humans are worried about themselves than any aliens that may come along. You have the people fighting for power or worried about keeping power and then you have the people worried about surviving in the midst of that so all of them aren't worried about any aliens.

If you want aliens then reavers come pretty close. They are pretty alien even if they are human. How many people do you know that eat your flesh, sew your skin into their clothing, and probably use your bones as tools. Not many.

And you're right, this isn't Star Trek, Star Wars, or any other mainstream sci-fi. If you like sci-fi then read Asimov or any of the other great sci-fi writers of the past and you will see very often that sci-fi isn't just about aliens and blowing stuff up.

Oh, and play Cantr II at www.cantr.net.

HOWDYROCKERBABY1

Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by FireflyFriend:
I really love this show, but I think Space General has made some good points. Besides I think the Reevers will turn out to be alieans. And its true that some people were confused by so many characters. Friends was a big success and it only had five regular characters. the other were occasional as Space general suggested.
There's no point in being mean just because people see ways to improve the show.

Reevers aren't aliens, Reevers are men pushed out to the edges of the galaxy and went mad.

Joss doesn't believe in Aliens and he created a universe without Aliens on purpose.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
MAL: This is my scrap of nowhere. You go on and find your own.
SAFFRON: You can't just leave me here, on this
lifeless piece of crap moon...
MAL: Sure I can.
SAFFRON: I'll die.
MAL: Well, as a courtesy, you might start
getting busy on that, cause all this chatter ain't doin' me any kindness.

NRKANGEL

Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by FireflyFriend:
I really love this show, but I think Space General has made some good points.

I'm sorry, but he wasn't making points, he was sticking pins...there's a world of difference. What he thought about the show, he had a right to think. But it's pretty pathetic to call other people's thoughts "weak responses" and "if you can't do better, don't bother replying" just because people don't agree with HIM. That's a double standard.

Quote:

And its true that some people were confused by so many characters. Friends was a big success and it only had five regular characters. the other were occasional as Space general suggested.

Yes, some people may have been confused, but with a good show, the number of characters isn't as important as how good the story telling is. If the formula for a good show is having fewer characters, then Friends would have to get rid of one to be as good as Frasier and two to be as good as Seinfeld. (Both Trek's and Star Wars had seven regular characters. Babylon 5 had eight.)

Quote:

There's no point in being mean just because people see ways to improve the show.

You're right. I agree. But on the other hand you CAN'T ask for respect if you're not willing to GIVE it and that's the case that operating here.

You've stated your opinions nicely and while I don't necessarily agree with all of them, you have a right to be treated just as nicely. But throwin' rocks ain't the best way to get people to listen to your message. That's something that the Space Bunny has to learn for himself.

OUTTATHEWORLD

Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:37 AM

No aliens in Foundation, that's so. Nor Varley's Steel Beach series or most Heinlein, come to that. (Yes, children, there was science fiction that did not originate on TV...)

Take us outta the world....

GHOLA

Tuesday, May 25, 2004 2:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceGeneral:
I hope Joss doesn't make a new series again until he does the following two things, get rid of half the crew, there's too many. The characters I see as being deleted are the couple, the priest and the prostitute.... These character are either duplicated elsewhere or unneccessary. The other thing is to introduce alien life forms, we can't be the only ones in space....

Okay I'll try and explain why I think it neccessary to keep the couple, priest, and prostitute as I don't believe any of them are duplicated or unneccessary. Okay first in the couple category are Wash and Zoe now Wash being the pilot of the ship is a neccessary function to the crew plus he provides comic relief, Zoe being the other member of the couple category fought with the Captain in the war and so she knows the Captain really well which creates an interesting dynamic between the two she's also the first officer/warrior woman. The priest, Shepard Book, is an interesting character because he acts as a concious of the ship and undoubtedly if the show had lasted longer he would've provided contrast to the Captain's lost faith, he also has a as yet only hinted at backstory. Finally the prostitute, Inara, provides contrast with the rustic feal of the ship with her far more civilized nature she also has a sexual tension with the Captain also. I hope that helped you understand the role of some of the characters a little more as I think the ensemble feal of the show is one of the things that really stands out about it.

As for aliens others have stated it far better than I'm about to. First you don't need aliens to make sci-fi they're not required and having Firefly being one of the few (the only?) space shows without aliens is quite refreshing. Second it's not arrogant to assume that we're the only sentient species and even if there are aliens then it's not likely that we'll ever meet them besides we haven't met aliens how dare real life be so arrogant as to assume we're the only sentient species in the universe.

Quote:
(Yes, children, there was science fiction that did not originate on TV...)

Well duh there was Star Wars.

ABSALON

Tuesday, May 25, 2004 11:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by FireflyFriend:
I really love this show, but I think Space General has made some good points. Besides I think the Reevers will turn out to be alieans. And its true that some people were confused by so many characters. Friends was a big success and it only had five regular characters. the other were occasional as Space general suggested.
There's no point in being mean just because people see ways to improve the show.

Oops, didn't realize i was being mean. But Aliens aren't needed its been done many times before, its original to have a space Sci-fi without aliens. If you want Aliens there's plenty of other shows with them.

oh, i'm going to that special part of hell

WREN

Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FireflyFriend:
I really love this show, but I think Space General has made some good points. Besides I think the Reevers will turn out to be alieans. And its true that some people were confused by so many characters. Friends was a big success and it only had five regular characters. the other were occasional as Space general suggested.
There's no point in being mean just because people see ways to improve the show.

I am not going to respond to Spacegeneral because I think he is just trying to get a reaction.

However, I couldn't ignore your Reaver comment Fireflyfriend. Now this is from over a year ago so has become a bit hazy in my memory, but I believe Joss said there won't be 'aliens' in his universe. He doesn't believe they exist and would rather focus on his characters than get involved in latex again. It is possible that Universal have told him to put them in, but I hope not. Humans are scary enough.

BROWNCOAT1

Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceGeneral:
I hope Joss doesn't make a new series again until he does the following two things, get rid of half the crew, there's too many. The characters I see as being deleted are the couple, the priest and the prostitute.... These character are either duplicated elsewhere or unneccessary. The other thing is to introduce alien life forms, we can't be the only ones in space....

Whatever the reasoning behind this post, be it to elicite a negative response from a loyal fanbase, or an actual attempt at some sort of understanding, I think we should approach it w/ a logical arguement.

Getting rid of half the crew is not an option. Nine characters are not too many to keep with, especially since they travel together and share the same experiences. It is not as if they are going in several different directions on different adventures at the same time. To me, and many here, nine characters gives the show variety and depth that a show with only one or two characters never achieves.

"The couple" as you call them, are Zoe and Wash. They are necessary to the story. Wash is the pilot, the comic relief in tense situations, and the man that who is helping to bring Zoe out of the professional soldier shell she sank into after the War of Unification. Zoe is Mal's right hand and his war "buddy". She is the one that watches over everyone, including our captain when he is too busy getting in trouble to take care of himself. The show would not be the same without either of them.

Inara, the Companion (or prostitute as you call her) is also an essential part of the cast. Inara is the love interest of Mal, and her status as a Companion give the crew & Serenity (the ship) some respectability and access to ports they might not otherwise be accepted in. Inara also has some mysteries in her past that add to the intrigue of the show. She is the voice of reason and civility when Mal is being stubborn or passionate about something.

Book, the Shephard, is also necessary to the formula of Firefly. Book is somewhat of an enigma. He is a man of God, wandering the frontier spreading the word to them as need it. Yet he has an unexplainable knowledge of crime, strategy, combat, and other things it seems very out of place for a preacher to know. Add to this the way the Alliance officers jumped through all manner of hoops to aid him in the episode "Safe" and we have the makings of a very intriguing backstory. Book is also the voice of compassion and understanding in an otherwise harsh universe where survival is key.

None of the characters in cast are "duplicated" anywhere in the series, nor should they be relegated to recurring roles. Each character brings a different element to the overall story that creates a chemistry so strong as to make the best sci fi show I have ever had the opportunity to see on television.

As to aliens and the lack thereof in Joss's universe, who is to say what the future might hold. I agree w/ Zoid that the universe is a big place, and in the Firefly story it seems that only a small portion of it has been explored or settled. In such a vast expanse of space, it seems logical that encounters w/ "aliens" would be nonexistant. If aliens had avoided us all the years on Earth, why would they be in a hurry to make contact w/ an aggressive species that just finished a civil war?

Honestly I find the lack of aliens a refreshing change for a sci fi series. Every sci fi out there in mainstream deals w/ aliens: Star Trek, Babylon 5, Star Wars, etc. Firefly is about mankind, our trial & tribulations, and the human experience in a society recovering from a civil war in an environment that necessitates a return to the frontier way of life.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

JUMPY

Tuesday, May 25, 2004 2:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zophiel:
People, people, people.

Do *not* feed the trolls.

Indeed Zophiel, Indeed.

I'm struggling to contain myself. STRUGGLING in the most powerful sense of the word as I'm sure most of you understand.

I will say this:
Spacegeneral, riiiiiiiiight...

__________________________
There's no show I'd rather see, than the one with Serenity.
You can't take the sky from me...

SPACEGENERAL

Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:38 PM

When I said there should be aliens in the series, I wasn't referring to intelligent lifeform in the same vein as Vulcans, Klingons, Delvians, Hynerians or the Hutt. I'd be quite happy if the aliens was something they herded like cattle in the cowboy era. I wonder how successful it would've been if aliens were involved. As it is based on the early part of the the US life, I wonder who the equivalent of the Native Americans are supposed to be. If you're going to be base it on a past, you might as well base it on the whole era...

I can understand where people are coming from with respect to the characters. I just would've done it differently, just expressing my view.

Is the film going to be a cinematic version or just an extended episode on Sci-Fi ?

As the series is based on the past, are the Reevers also based on a past group ?

The weak responses I referred to related to lack of argument as seen in the early replies.

GHOLA

Tuesday, May 25, 2004 6:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceGeneral:
When I said there should be aliens in the series, I wasn't referring to intelligent lifeform in the same vein as Vulcans, Klingons, Delvians, Hynerians or the Hutt. I'd be quite happy if the aliens was something they herded like cattle in the cowboy era. I wonder how successful it would've been if aliens were involved. As it is based on the early part of the the US life, I wonder who the equivalent of the Native Americans are supposed to be. If you're going to be base it on a past, you might as well base it on the whole era...

Why would the show be any better or worse if they had cool looking alien cattle? I just don't see the point to creating aliens that aren't really characters they're just their showing that hey there are aliens in this show too. And why do you think the show needs to be based on the entire past just because it uses some elements of the past? Firefly is still science fiction it has some elements of the past but they're all blended together it's not a TV show about history.

Quote:
Is the film going to be a cinematic version or just an extended episode on Sci-Fi?

Serenity will be released in theaters.

SERGEANTX

Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceGeneral:
....As it is based on the early part of the the US life, I wonder who the equivalent of the Native Americans are supposed to be. If you're going to be base it on a past, you might as well base it on the whole era...

...As the series is based on the past, are the Reevers also based on a past group ?

The weak responses I referred to related to lack of argument as seen in the early replies.

The Reevers were pretty obviously a stand in for indians, not so much real Native Americans but more the threatening savage stereotype found in the classic western genre.

I get the impression you didn't get to see the show as a solid run. You should take some time and watch the DVD, from the beginning. I think a lot of your concerns will be answered.

That's not to say we can't offer constructive criticism, it just seems yours is somewhat uninformed.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

BROWNCOAT1

Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceGeneral:
When I said there should be aliens in the series, I wasn't referring to intelligent lifeform in the same vein as Vulcans, Klingons, Delvians, Hynerians or the Hutt. I'd be quite happy if the aliens was something they herded like cattle in the cowboy era.

I don't think that alien life, even as herd animals would add anything to the show. You have to remember that the worlds we see in Firefly are all worlds terraformed by the Alliance. Before being terraformed they were all but uninhabitable, so I doubt they would have substained indigenous life of any kind save the most basic.

Quote:
I wonder how successful it would've been if aliens were involved.

I doubt it would have been any more successful, given Fox's gross mishandling of the show: airing the episodes out of order, canning the original pilot (Serenity) for a shorter one (Train Job) written in a single weekend, preempting the show for baseball coverage, and putting the show in the timeslot of death, Friday nights @ 8pm.

Quote:
As it is based on the early part of the the US life, I wonder who the equivalent of the Native Americans are supposed to be. If you're going to be base it on a past, you might as well base it on the whole era...

I agree w/ Sergeant X that the Reavers are supposed to be the stand ins for Native Americans. There have been a couple of threads discussing the comparisons in depth.

Quote:
Is the film going to be a cinematic version or just an extended episode on Sci-Fi ?

"Serenity" will appear in theatres in early 2005. It will not be a TV movie.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

ZIZZY

Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:04 PM

On the alien policy, I do believe he was quoted as saying he needed to get away from latex for awhile.

I personally love the Western twang. Feels to me like a throwback to the origins of the word "Space Opera" Just because EVERY Sci-fi has aliens doesn't mean it needs to be that way. To me, silly latex faces don't make good shows, storytelling does. Joss wanted to tell the stories about what would happen to people in the future. And to a degree I think it's creepier when Reevers are men pushed to insanity. It's easier to write of brutality when done by an alien, but when done by something that was once human...that be creepiness.

AMAZONZOE

Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceGeneral:
When I said there should be aliens in the series, I wasn't referring to intelligent lifeform in the same vein as Vulcans, Klingons, Delvians, Hynerians or the Hutt. I'd be quite happy if the aliens was something they herded like cattle in the cowboy era. I wonder how successful it would've been if aliens were involved. As it is based on the early part of the the US life, I wonder who the equivalent of the Native Americans are supposed to be. If you're going to be base it on a past, you might as well base it on the whole era...

I can understand where people are coming from with respect to the characters. I just would've done it differently, just expressing my view.

Is the film going to be a cinematic version or just an extended episode on Sci-Fi ?

As the series is based on the past, are the Reevers also based on a past group ?

The weak responses I referred to related to lack of argument as seen in the early replies.

this is hopeless

HOWDYROCKERBABY1

Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceGeneral:
I'd be quite happy if the aliens was something they herded like cattle in the cowboy era.

THATS IT!
Thats the missing piece! The ratings would have jumped sky high if we'd only had 3 eyed, 6 legged cows with neon spots!

Quote:
As the series is based on the past, are the Reevers also based on a past group ?

Its not a history story. Every single culture has been ripped out of its orignal place and thrown into a hugh melting pot. Race, religion, doesn't matter...Reevers could be black, white, chinese...it doesn't matter.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
MAL: This is my scrap of nowhere. You go on and find your own.
SAFFRON: You can't just leave me here, on this
lifeless piece of crap moon...
MAL: Sure I can.
SAFFRON: I'll die.
MAL: Well, as a courtesy, you might start
getting busy on that, cause all this chatter ain't doin' me any kindness.

ABSALON

Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceGeneral:

Is the film going to be a cinematic version or just an extended episode on Sci-Fi ?

SpaceGeneral, if your going to see this movie, try to stay quiet in the theatre, as a fairly new but now dedicated Firefly fan, i can tell you we defend our dear program passionately

oh, i'm going to that special part of hell

GREGGALLINSON

Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:20 PM

Despite the fact that it's an overt space western, Firefly has a much more realistic take on science fiction than most SF TV shows. The lack of noise in space and all human universe are more in the style of Foundation or 2001 (well, OK, 2001 did have aliens, but they were in the background and never seen) than the traditional Trek/Galactica/Wars-style space opera that's dominated North American SF TV and movies for years. What in god's name would be the point of throwing in some BEMs and removing anything even remotely unique and interesting about the series?

GORAMSHINY

Tuesday, May 25, 2004 11:33 PM

First of, and if it's been pointed out already forgive me, Friends had Six main characters, not five ( Ross, Joey, Chandler, Monica, Phoebe, Rachel )

Secondly, not to feed the trolls ( or the flames ) but here is my two cents on the whole 'Aliens' issue... A) There is ample reason to believe in the existence of intelligent life outside of our own existing in the universe ( Drakes Equation ) but given the size of the universe and the inherent difficulties in traveling such distances it's not inconceivable for those in the firefly 'Verse to have not meet any yet. I do believe that firefly is set some 500 years into the future and, without wanting to reopen the debate, whether firefly is set in several close star systems or one large system of several dozen teraformed planet(oids), that humanity is still fairly close, universe wise, to earth that was thus supporting the idea that, if other races do exist in the firefly 'Verse, humanity has thus far only seen a very small portion there of.

B) As to the whole slimming the crew idea...

Um... No! Mal is a must, Can't have serenity without her captain.

Wash is pilot and navigator and you can't have Wash without Zoe and even if you could Zoe is essential in her own right as both Mal's second in command and trained gunmen for those less smooth occasions on a job.

Jayne, even putting aside his comic relief aspect ( and for me it's a tie which generates the most laughs, he or Wash ) is, again, a good man with a gun when you need one.

Kaylee's what keeps the ship flying, and most likely, the crew from each others necks.

Simon is the Doc, Can't be doing crime without someone around to patch a body up when plans go south and you wont have Simon without River ( who may be the one person on the ship that actually serves no purpose no mater how much browncoats may love her )

Inara ( aka 'the prostitute' ) is Serenity's all access pass to some of the finer planets. A companion is probably the only thing that gets them clearance to orbit some planets let alone make landfall.

Which just leaves Book and while God may have no place on board Serenity this here is one man of god that does. Whether it's playing babysitter to river when everyone else is out or shooting the odd kneecap or his as yet unexplained knowledge of the seamier side of life Book has show himself to be a valuable asset for Serenity and her Crew several times.

So... I really don't see how one could get rid of any of them let alone the ones mentioned specifically.

But then again, that's just my two cents.

EBONEZER

Wednesday, May 26, 2004 1:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceGeneral:

It's arrogant to believe we are the only inhabitents of the Universe....

Totaly arrogant, you're abosloutly right. There is no way in hell that we are the only ones around. (I'm not being sarcastic, really)

On the otherhand, the universe is an immensly huge place, the chances of us running into said aleins is slim to none.

Also, I can't see the couple (I assume you refer to Wash and Zoe) being removed. It would be hard to get anywhere without a pilot...

-----------------------------------

Four out of five dentists reccomend calling Ebo a girl.

INVISIBLEGREEN

Wednesday, May 26, 2004 1:24 AM

SpaceGeneral,

Have you seen Ron Howard's "Apollo 13," the one with Tom Hanks.

Wasn't that movie so unbelievable? I mean, they went into space, but they never even met any aliens. That automatically makes it crap.

SPACEGENERAL

Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:09 AM

There's also Mission to Mars, the Red Planet, etc. I'd better clarify what I mean. If the series was set in our solar system then I would accept that there were no aliens. However as I see it, the series is set elsewhere in the Universe and all the planets are bare, I find that hard to accept.

Is no one aware that we might not be alone in this solar system ? Is no one aware that there might be live under the Ice sheet on Europa, a moon of either Jupiter or Saturn ?

INVISIBLEGREEN

Wednesday, May 26, 2004 6:18 AM

I do believe that some form of (probably non-intelligent) life exists somewhere in the universe, but I don't think that means aliens should be included in all science fiction stories. Alien politics has pretty much become a cliche of sci-fi, and I applaud Joss and Tim for not wanting to go there.

Just cuz a space series set in the future doesn't have aliens, doesn't make it unbelivable. Similarly, having aliens in a space show set in the future doesn't make it any less credit-worthy.

Often it's the story that counts. In "Firefly's" case, it's really the characters that are the most important, and I think the show could take place in any time period and still be a damn good story, but taking place in 2517 with a creatively (but not overbearingly different) setting seems to have been the perfect setting for the series.

I think alien fetishes are really strange, but if Klingons make you hot, go for it.

FLYINFREE

Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:46 AM

Quote:
FireflyFriend wrote:
Monday, May 24, 2004 14:19
I really love this show, but I think Space General has made some good points. Besides I think the Reevers will turn out to be alieans. And its true that some people were confused by so many characters. Friends was a big success and it only had five regular characters. the other were occasional as Space general suggested.
There's no point in being mean just because people see ways to improve the show.

Quote:
"Aliens, you know, that's something everybody else has done and is doing. It's a great metaphor to play with, but it's not what I'm interested in. I'm really interested in 'you are there,' in 'you are a part of this.' And I think aliens take you out of that. I also need to spend some time away from latex." - Joss Whedon

And Friends had 6 main characters.

"...we're still flyin'."
"That's not much."
"It's enough." Malcolm Reynolds and Simon Tam - Serenity

DRACOS

Wednesday, May 26, 2004 12:04 PM

I'm gonna go think up something really sarcastic and come back later.

Dont ask me silly questions.
I wont play silly games.
--------------------------------------------------
Somebody tries to kill you you go ahead and try to kill them right on back!

ZOID

Wednesday, May 26, 2004 12:25 PM

SpaceGeneral really bore down with:

Quote:
Is no one aware that we might not be alone in this solar system ? Is no one aware that there might be live under the Ice sheet on Europa, a moon of either Jupiter or Saturn ?

Ah, nothing quite so compelling as the facts, or something like them. As I have mentioned in previous posts on other threads, the terraforming of planets, moons and larger asteroidal bodies has serious moral implications, precisely because there might be 'live' already 'lifing' on them.

In the Firefly 'verse, however, the fact that Alliance/BlueSun have indeed already terraformed all those planetoids and planetesimals means that all native life has been eradicated from them in the process, in the same way that an alien race -- by turning our planet into a gas giant to suit their physical needs -- would wipe out all Earth-borne life in the process.

BTW, Europa is a satellite of Jupiter. Jupiter and Saturn share no satellites.

Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"I'm telling you right now. When all's said and done, that little girl's gonna change the world. Not just this little bit she's done here, neither; big things. I couldn't be prouder if she was my own daughter."

- Malcolm Reynolds, owner-operator of Firefly-class transport, "Serenity"; from A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence Wilkins, Richard

BROWNCOAT1

Wednesday, May 26, 2004 12:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceGeneral:
There's also Mission to Mars, the Red Planet, etc. I'd better clarify what I mean. If the series was set in our solar system then I would accept that there were no aliens. However as I see it, the series is set elsewhere in the Universe and all the planets are bare, I find that hard to accept.

Why is it hard to accept the planets are "bare" (I am assuming you mean bare of alien life)? If the planets or moons that the Alliance terraformed had life on them, it would have been plant and perhaps very basic life at most. The terraforming process, or what little we know of it from the series, takes awhile to complete & is a very difficult process. Anything native to the planet most likely would be eradicated during the process.

Quote:
Is no one aware that we might not be alone in this solar system ? Is no one aware that there might be live under the Ice sheet on Europa, a moon of either Jupiter or Saturn ?

Oh I do not doubt that we are not alone in this vast universe, but that is the beauty of fiction, you can make it anything you want it to be. That is what Joss has done, written a brilliant piece of fiction in Firefly. He specifically said that he wanted to avoid "bumpy foreheads", etc. He did not want aliens in this story, that does not mean he does not believe in their existance, simply he did not want them involved w/ his tale.

Keep in mind too that makeup and costumes for aliens really cut into your budget, and Joss wanted to use the budget on his cast, crew, and telling a great story, not on cool looking aliens standing around as extras.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

STATIC

Wednesday, May 26, 2004 1:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Absalon:

We're alone, deal with it. Even if there are aliens, they aint comin and they aint bringin Elvis back.

Agreed.

The reason Aliens would never visit this world is the same reason you would never willingly drive to certain parts of West Virginia, Alabama or Louisiana.

==================================================
"Wash. . .we got some local color happening. A grand entrance would not go amiss."

RKLENSETH

Wednesday, May 26, 2004 2:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceGeneral:
There's also Mission to Mars, the Red Planet, etc. I'd better clarify what I mean. If the series was set in our solar system then I would accept that there were no aliens. However as I see it, the series is set elsewhere in the Universe and all the planets are bare, I find that hard to accept.

Is no one aware that we might not be alone in this solar system ? Is no one aware that there might be live under the Ice sheet on Europa, a moon of either Jupiter or Saturn ?

What about Heinlen? Asimov? A lot of their sci-fi stories didn't have aliens in them and they are considered the greatest of sci-fi writers ever.

What about Dune, considered the greatest sci-fi epic ever? There weren't any aliens in that and that was set 10,000 years into the future. There were some wierd looking creatures such as the Space Guild but I think they were humans that were transformed to look that way due to the spice. Sort of like Reavers in Firefly.

And whoever mentioned Apollo 13, that is based on a true historic event and isn't sci-fi.

Oh, and play Cantr II at www.cantr.net.

ANTHONYT

Wednesday, May 26, 2004 3:32 PM

There were aliens in Dune, so that's a bad example.

Look Spacegeneral (whoever you are) if you really and truly believe that there might be alien life in the galaxy, then you ALSO believe...

there might NOT be alien life in the galaxy.

(The word MIGHT, being what it is, means a percent chance. And if the percent isn't one-hundred, then there's that other percent.)

So, glad to see you agree with Joss and company, Spacegeneral. There might be alien life... and there might not be. Joss is only making one sci-fi show, so there you have it.

--Ant

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

SPACEGENERAL

Thursday, May 27, 2004 6:17 PM

What about the worms, weren't they "ALIEN" although we would've been the aliens in that film ?

JIMNIGHTSHADE

Thursday, May 27, 2004 6:41 PM

Quote:
I have to say, I like me my science. We use it to disprove theories of the Bible that suggest Earth is not billions but thousands of years old.

You might want to take a second look at your science. Science will prove that the earth is *not* billions of years old. It has been proven already, just not accepted. The big bang theory has also been falsified and scientists are scrambling to come up with another theory. If one *without bias* seeks answers in science, one must conclude that the earth can not be billions of years old.

But I agree with you about aliens... :)

GHOLA

Thursday, May 27, 2004 6:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceGeneral:
What about the worms, weren't they "ALIEN" although we would've been the aliens in that film ?

Okay I assume you're still talking about Dune (which was a book first by the way) and yes the sandworms were aliens (although not sentient) but I don't really understand why you're saying that as in the post before yours AnthonyT said "There were aliens in Dune, so that's a bad example.". I also don't understand what you mean by "although we would've been the aliens in that film?". Please explain.

BADGERSHAT

Thursday, May 27, 2004 7:01 PM

Not to stir nuthin up.... but is this dude related to Ghoulman?

--Jefé The Hat

***************************
"I like smackin 'em"--Jayne

BUDGIE

Thursday, May 27, 2004 7:28 PM

Im not sure anyone in the posts previous has actually read any of the Dune books and understood the cycle of human ecology with regards to the worms. Perhaps comprehension of story arcs in Sci Fi is beyond many IQ's now.

As for Spacegeneral, the concept of Firefly is not unique in Sci Fi there are many hundreds of good examples of character driven Sci Fi with no aliens, perhaps as your post suggests you have little or no experience of the very wide genre of Sci Fi beyond the few paultry 'flash' shows on the TV or in movies.

Maybe you need to get out more, and perhaps given you dont like Firefly one has to ask why join a site entitled 'Fireflyfans.net' is there any part of that sentence you dont understand??

ZOID

Friday, May 28, 2004 1:20 AM

Ghola wrote:

Quote:
Okay I assume you're still talking about Dune (which was a book first by the way) and yes the sandworms were aliens (although not sentient) but I don't really understand why you're saying that as in the post before yours AnthonyT said "There were aliens in Dune, so that's a bad example.". I also don't understand what you mean by "although we would've been the aliens in that film?". Please explain.

First, I will say that I suspect SpaceGeneral is either: 1.) A troll, or 2.) A non-English speaking prepubescent. On the off possibility that number 2 is the case, I'll respond in his(?) defense; in the more likely case (#1), this will be the last time I respond on this thread. Always remember: Don't Feed the Trolls!

Okay, Ghola -- or should I call you 'Swordmaster Idaho'? -- you've obviously found a connection with Herbert's works to a depth that has eluded others. But there's no need to get upset about it. SpaceGeneral is clearly having a hard time wrapping his available intelligence around nine characters, without lovable, cuddly Toys'R'Us figurines milling about the set to make him(?) feel secure ('Meesa luvsa Jar-Jar!'). To her(?), CGI characters suitable for immortalization on a McDonald's collectors' cup are what sci-fi is all about. No Ewoks, no Romulans, no dice. (Although I, myself, have often thought how cool it would be to have Jayne try to mesh his "man parts" with a suitably green or purple femaloid, ala Kirk)

As to the 'alien' reference -- and again assuming that SpaceGeneral is not a troll, only a little deficient in the vocab -- I believe it(?) was intending to say 'extraterrestrial'. In Dune, the sandworms are alien (which only means 'strange') to humans; but since they are the native lifeform on Arrakis, humans would be the ETs on that planet. See how easy it is when you translate it into English?

Assuming for the last time that we're not talking troll from the get-go (and I'm betting we are, for the record), I believe SpaceGeneral is in fact -- with his limited grasp of our language, which is understandable due to his very young age and cultural differences -- trying to point out what he believes to be very important issues: 1.) That the Universe is not so large a place, and certainly full of living organisms, like the ones that have been repeatedly probing his 'fudge factory' after he falls asleep on his fishing boat in the Ozarks; 2.) If we go into Space, we will invariably find intelligent Live, perhaps as close as Europa, a moon of Jupiter or Saturn (depending on what day of the week it is); and that (3.) ALIENS like us must respect those other livevorms wherever they may be, whether we can see them or not, and irregardlesslyful of whether they are as cute and cuddly as those found by Luke Skywalker when he saved the Universe back in 1984.

C'mon, y'all! Where's the love? SpaceGeneral has a point! And if he wears a big enough hat, maybe nobody will notice...

Respectfully,

zoid
P.S.
He's a troll...
_________________________________________________

"I'm telling you right now. When all's said and done, that little girl's gonna change the world. Not just this little bit she's done here, neither; big things. I couldn't be prouder if she was my own daughter."

- Malcolm Reynolds, owner-operator of Firefly-class transport, "Serenity"; from A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence Wilkins, Richard

GUNHAND

Friday, May 28, 2004 1:57 AM

Well most of y'all have already said stuff I would have said in response so...good work.

There is one little appendix I'd add to all the responses though. If Joss decided to put in aliens, and that is a big 'if', then I think it definately would be done in a way that not only wouldn't make the 'normal sci-fi' people happy but would, in fact, piss them right off.

Joss is a complicated guy who writes about deep-ish stuff. So if aliens appeared they wouldn't be cut out cardboard aliens with bumpy foreheads or CGI cuddlies that we go "Howdy, let's live long and prosper together" to, no I don't see that happening. What I see if he'd do it is we'd encounter a basically peaceful alien race and then...we (humans) would beat the everloving crap out of them just for existing. Why? Because that's what we (humans) do. We've done a damn good job of wiping out other humans that were just a mite different than us over the centuries and I really do not see that changing.

Hell the Alliance would loooove if there were aliens. What better way to actually unite humanity than to kill the go-se out of those green/pointy-eared/furry guys over in the next system? The 'Verse ain't a galaxy far away or some bright shiny place where you get a nice jumpsuit and all your cares in the world taken care of, it's a mean and nasty place inhabited by the meanest and nastiest people ever put down in the Universe. Us.

It wouldn't be a nice and happy,"First Contact", that day would go down in their history as the day we started wiping them out and taking their land. If they get really really lucky we may let them have a reservation or two on some of the less scenic planets we took from them.

Now back to the Spacegeneral saying it's crazy to think there isn't other intelligent life out there. There probably is, but with the distances in space our chances of meeting 'em are slim to none. And the aliens can thank their lucky stars that that's the case.

~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
"Oh hey, I got an idea. Instead of us hanging
around playing art critic till I get pinched by
the Man, how's about we move away from this
eerie-ass piece of work and get on with our
increasingly eerie-ass day, how's that?"

My eerie-ass website:
http://gunhandsfirefly.homestead.com/Index.html

SHADOWVESSEL

Friday, May 28, 2004 4:10 AM

Just to let ya'll know, I'm agreeing with Gun' here. I have nothing to say to "Gomer-Space-Pyle".

You know, I always had a nagging idea that the "hands of blue" were actually aliens. You don't need cheesy prosthetics to be alien. Just a cool stick that makes the human body bleed out of every possible orifice. And your gripping description of the human race is the perfect reason why they'd be doing what they're doing. What that was, we may never know, but I have faith that Joss'll wrap it up for us in one medium or another.

And was Inara the "heart" or "mother" of the crew?

That's all I got to say about that.

(Gorramn Double Post)
"I'll be in my bunk."

GUNHAND

Friday, May 28, 2004 4:20 AM

There's a good series of books called "Vampire Earth", now don't let the title throw ya because it's mostly post-apocalyptic stuff and nowhere near as corny as the series title would lead one to believe.

Not to be spoilish if any of y'all plan on picking it up but one thing that's pretty appearent from the start sorta dovetails with the Hands of Blue being aliens argument a tad.

It goes something along the lines of why aliens chose us to fight their war: "Ants can plan, work together and make war with a singular purpose but individually they're nothing to be feared. A tiger is the most fearsome beast in the jungle but 8 tigers together are no smarter than one. With you humans you have the viciousness of the tiger and the organization as ants. That is why you are the perfect warrior race of any we have ever found. Some may be stronger, some may be more organized, but together you are as a plague."

That's not word for word but gets the point across. I even used something similar with a short story I wrote since I've believed something like that for a good long time, but never saw it spelled out so well as in those books. Makes you wonder about alien abductions where the abductees are never seen again and that missing battalion at Gallipolli now don't it?

So I can see Blue Hands as being alien. Another thing about Joss is that he seems to me the sort that can grasp "alien" and "non-human" as seperate concepts. Not every Sci-Fi writer can do that, there are some people on Earth right now that are completely alien to you or me, would make a Klingon seem not all that strange, but they're not non-humans. Just alien in mindset. For that reason I think the Reavers [o]are aliens. But not some alien race from a distant star, but humans who have become so different that they may as well be aliens. And that since they are 'born' from us, have all our darkest tendencies but amplified. That's scarier than anything that is 'alien' just because it has 6 legs, glowing eyes or bumps on it's head.

At least that's my opinion, and we all know what they are like.

~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
"Oh hey, I got an idea. Instead of us hanging
around playing art critic till I get pinched by
the Man, how's about we move away from this
eerie-ass piece of work and get on with our
increasingly eerie-ass day, how's that?"

My eerie-ass website:
http://gunhandsfirefly.homestead.com/Index.html

RKLENSETH

Friday, May 28, 2004 4:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
There were aliens in Dune, so that's a bad example.

There weren't aliens in Dune. If you read into Herbert's work it is explained that everything comes from Earth. Over time things evolved due to natural evolution and the enviroment of a planet. Plus, spice on Arakis(sp?) is one of these things that make people evolved faster which is one reason why it is theorized that the worms on Arakis are so big and powerful. Remember that the spice allows humans special abilities such as allowing them to travel through space and many other cool things. Plus remember that Dune is set in the century of 10,000. That is a long time down the road.

I also like the bit about how humans became slave to machines but then eventually overthrew the machines which might explain the reason why they use spice to travel through space rather than machines like warp drive and stuff. I also thought that was a cool original take on sci-fi. It is obvious that sci-fis like the Matrix and Terminator take that idea from.

Oh, and play Cantr II at www.cantr.net.

ANTHONYT

Friday, May 28, 2004 12:32 PM

I always thought the worms in Dune were native to Arrakis. Since you've read the book in more detail, tell me about how the worms came to be. I'd be fascinated to learn of it. Was it a terraforming effort gone awry? "These worms will help make rich topsoil... OH MY GOD!!!"

--Ant

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

SHIKSA

Friday, May 28, 2004 7:10 PM

Perhaps Spacegeneral would be happier watching a Reality TV Series: there are precious few humans on them, and they tend to get whittled down with each episode.

TIGERLILY

Friday, May 28, 2004 9:01 PM

spacegeneral, the show was cancelled prematurely. much information about the firefly universe did not have a chance to trickle down to the viewers.

that being said: you claim to enjoy science fiction. are you aware of any hypothetical terraforming in any other science fiction story that would allow the survival of anything on the planet before terraforming took place? because i don't.

i assume that these worlds in the firefly universe did at one point support alien "life" in probably the sense of grass and algae and whatnot. however, all indigenous life was destroyed in the terraforming process. that is what terraforming does. every science fiction story i know that hypothesized terrforming admits that it destroys everything that was originally there. including any alien "cattle" or intelligent beings.

now if you want to actually be serious, there is an obvious and good reason for a lack of aliens in this story. besides the above, which more than anything is an explanaiton within the story framework of why not, the real reason is this:

this story is about people. human beings.

relateable characters who, when put in an unfamiliar, new, original setting, remain realistic. in fact more so. the idea behind all science fiction, all fiction in general, is to reveal through story thruths about the human condition.

now, other stories have chosen to invent aliens as one tool to reveal truth of the human condition, in a sense expanding the idea that not only are all genders, races, and ages of humans beings fundamentally alike, and therefore all intelligent life forms must also share these fundamental truths.

i find this foolish, personally. science fiction is allowed one great leap of imagination and then must constrain itself within its own universal rules. usually scifi claims to be based on science. ok. a future, obeying all the laws of science.

we may not be alone in the unverse. given. what are the chances these others will be bipedal. have two eyes. breathe air, no! breathe at all? close to none, in my opinion.

this leads to "aliens" being makeup-heavy metaphors for peoples we are actually already familiar with. this is a shame. romulans aren't the japanese from world war 2 nor should they ever have been. the klingons aren't the russians from the cold war nor african americans of today nor should they ever have substituted for them. it's false. jar jar binks should never have been made into a jamaican. it's superficial. it's cliche. it's not "true".

a firefly universe with no aliens is a truth. both within its own fictional framework, and the truth that is communicated to the audience through story.

i, personally, don't choose to relate to the green, voluptious alien macking on captain kirk. i do relate to human beings circumventing authority, trying to make a living, falling in and out of love, battling mental illness, trying to keep secrets, etc.

maybe that's me. you like aliens. good thing for you you have plenty of other choices in today's world saturated with fiction of all kinds, including the science variety.

a wise man once told me, through a device in my living room, that the world don't move to the beat of just one drum. amen, brother.

DELIA

Saturday, May 29, 2004 1:52 AM

All I have to say is that when Joss, in his infinite wisdom, sees fit to give us a "new" show, (and when some network is run by people with even a little bit of wisdom who see fit to actually air it), I suspect quite strongly that it will have none of these characters in it. That it will not be set on a space ship. That it will not be a watered-down redo of Firefly, but something new and different and wonderful, that none of us can begin to predict, and that we will embrace none the less, as we have with Firefly, Buffy, and Angel. Because if there is one thing I have learned from a collective 12 1/2 seasons of Joss TV, it's that I'm never going to be able to guess what he'll come up with next.

Equally, I believe that when Firefly returns to us, in the BDM and beyond, that it will still have Zoe and Wash, Book, Inara, Simon and River, Kaylee, Jayne and Mal. And that there will be no aliens, bovine or otherwise.

BTW, Shiksa, I love your description of "Reality" TV.

Delia

___________________________________________
ANYA: Don't be ridiculous. Martha Stewart isn't a demon. She's a witch.
XANDER: Please, she-- Really?
ANYA: Of course. Nobody could do that much decoupage without calling on the powers of darkness.

RKLENSETH

Saturday, May 29, 2004 2:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I always thought the worms in Dune were native to Arrakis. Since you've read the book in more detail, tell me about how the worms came to be. I'd be fascinated to learn of it. Was it a terraforming effort gone awry? "These worms will help make rich topsoil... OH MY GOD!!!"

--Ant

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

You have to read the books after the original. There are quite a few. I'm not sure if they mention anything about the past that leads up to Dune in the original. Its been a long time since I read it. But the Dune books afterwards go into more detail about the universe that Dune is set in.

But I believe it has something to do with the spice that makes the worms what they are and that help the spice reach the top of the soil and it was later found out that spice has these special properties. I'll have to read up on it again. Give me a few days.

Oh, and play Cantr II at www.cantr.net.