Zoë Warren: Most Mysterious Character?
POSTED BY: zoid
UPDATED: Friday, May 21, 2004 20:31
VIEWED: 7756
PAGE 3 of 4
Is Warren Zoe's last name, or Wash's? If Wash's, then he would be Wash Warren. (Wash and Worn).
Wacky fun. 
Cheers,
Annik
... my sister's a ship. We had a complicated childhood.
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Speaking of Book, he knows where the engine subsystems are in Serenity and also in The Message he does a pretty good job of running scans of the planet to find the Alliance base and spectrum band analysis to tell that Womack hasn't sent any messages.
I always though that scene was very telling about Book's past. While the rest of the crew is wondering if they are going to get bombed, Book is running scans. He is very cool in a fire fight.
"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"
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Quote:
Originally posted by WhooDahn:Quote:
Speaking of Book, he knows where the engine subsystems are in Serenity and also in The Message he does a pretty good job of running scans of the planet to find the Alliance base and spectrum band analysis to tell that Womack hasn't sent any messages.
I always though that scene was very telling about Book's past. While the rest of the crew is wondering if they are going to get bombed, Book is running scans. He is very cool in a fire fight.
"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"
Book is almost too cool in a firefight. It's downright creepifying at times. I swear during the fight on Niska's Skyplex he actually dodged a bullet, well at least that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
"Oh hey, I got an idea. Instead of us hanging
around playing art critic till I get pinched by
the Man, how's about we move away from this
eerie-ass piece of work and get on with our
increasingly eerie-ass day, how's that?"
My eerie-ass website:
http://gunhandsfirefly.homestead.com/Index.html
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Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
Fellow Browncoats:
Good morning. It's Monday, the first day of my 'weekend' and for most of you, the first day back at the grindstone. I hope it goes tolerably.
As I reflect on Firefly -- something I do a lot, obviously -- it occurs to me that perhaps the greatest mystery of the show is the one not readily apparent as a mystery. I'm talking about the motivations and history of the show's one steadfast character, Zoë Warren. I get the feeling that Joss might possibly be pulling a little sleight-of-hand here. Please allow me to digress slightly, in order to illuminate my assertion.
My father, when I was a lad, used to 'rassle' around with me, much to my childish delight. He'd get on his knees to equalize our heights and then 'slap-box' spar with me, ostensibly just playfully; but those lessons a father teaches a son invariably prove useful in real-life situations later. While it may seem like I'm meandering a bit, here's the point: He'd strike a fighting stance, then say, "You see this hand? You see this hand?" bluffing with his right; then he'd sneak in with his left, delivering a light tap to my cheek and say, "This is the one you've gotta watch out for."
So maybe, by showing us all those other gravid mysteries of Book and River, Blue Hands and Reavers, Joss is saying, "See this hand?". What if Zoë -- seemingly the least mysterious character on the show -- is the "one you've gotta watch out for"?
People have noted the ostensible wardrobe mistake of having Zoë wearing the 'wedding necklace' prior to having met Wash. Is it possible that it was not a mistake at all? Perhaps she was married and widowed previously, still wearing the necklace from mourning, or from a desire to avoid unwelcome advances. Back in the day, I knew lots of women who -- though unmarried -- bought a wedding ring to wear to clubs so they could drink in peace with their friends (pick-up lines are the most disgraceful things about the average male, not so?). I've also been giving some thought that the necklace may symbolize a different form of bondage than marriage, and that her continued wearing of it is a symbol of her hard-won freedom from that bondage. But it's probably just a silly notion of mine; there's certainly no evidence to support.
There's more to the 'Zoë Mystery'. Why is she so faithful to Mal? We may reasonably presume that the horrendous circumstances of the Battle of Serenity Valley have formed a bond between them. But what was the crystalizing event that made them inseparable? Many men at arms have been through the fire together, but few will form so strong or lasting a bond. Whatever that critical event was, how will it affect future actions, and ultimately the outcome of the series?
We are given glimpses of most of the other characters earlier homes or formative years. We know Mal was reared on Shadow, on a large cattle ranch. We know Wash's original home was a place so smoggy (cough, Los Angeles, cough) that he became a pilot just to see the stars. We know that River and Simon grew up in affluent surroundings on a hospitable planet. Conversely, we know that Jayne was brought up poor and rough on some backwater chunk of matter. We know Kaylee grew up on a similar backwater, the mechanic daughter of a mechanic. We may reasonably assume that Inara was initiated on Sihnon at a very young age, being educated in Guild schools until she came of age (in the Firefly 'verse what, 12?) and then became a sexual servant exclusively to the rich and powerful of society (ponder on this, if you will). We know virtually nothing of substance about Book's formative years, because that's his mystery ("See this hand?").
With Zoë however, why do we know nothing more about her childhood/formative years? Joss seems to have gone out of his way to deliver evidence of even Jayne's and Wash's; why not Zoë's, if everything's on the up-and-up? I've got some suspicions, but no proof, so I'll not further enumerate them, for now. But that's pNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
As another random thought:
Zoe's whole "cardboard cutout" act got me thinking of where I've seen such things before. Animé has a tradition of taking cardboard people and rendering the emotionlessness as extreme coolness. The first example that popped into my head was Heero and Trowa, from Gundam Wing.
Of course, At the core of GW, there're two commentaries. One is "what do soldiers do after the war is over," and the other is about child soldiers.
Child soldiers are a tactic used in many less-populated and/or less geopolitically stable nations. Grab up as many orphans (or even "conscripted" children) as you can, and run them through boot camp/psych indoctrination in their formative years. You get soldiers who are totally devoted to the cause, highly skilled (because they don't have any of that "personal life" crap getting in the way of their training). These people are living weapons, whose only purpose is to fight and die for their officers.
Heck, those of us who've watched Dark Angel will have seen the process up close, through Max's flashbacks. You can also read about it in Orson Scott Card's Ender's Game books. We've seen Jem'Hadar on DS9, and clonetroopers (and heck, even the Jedi themselves) in the Star Wars prequels. And, of course, the Gundam pilots.
It occurred to me that Zoe might be a survivor of some War-era youth training program. It'd certainly account for her overall badassitude and by-the-book personality, as well as her utter devotion to Mal. It might even explain her marriage to Wash, whose reckless fun-loving personality are the exact counterpoint to just about everything she's been brought up to be. Wash liberates her.
Now, child soldiers doesn't seem like something the Independents would try, unless the war got really desperate. The Alliance, OTOH. . .
Possibly Zoe was a soldier who somehow developed some sense of morals. Maybe even outright sympathy for the Independents. Maybe Mal (or, more accurately, Mal's unit) rescued her, and she repaid that the only way she knew how --total loyalty to her Superior Officer.
-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
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I haven't read the posts so maybe I'm stating the obvious... sorry to just interject...
Zoe is scared. The reason she is still hanging with Mal has to do with the Battle of Serenity, at least mostly. I suspect Zoe survived the battle by acting as we have always seen her; at Mals side backing him up. Since the battle, I can only guess Zoe is stuck in this behavior as a survival mechanism. Even a dependance on Mal for emotional security.
Remember, her marriage to Wash is recent and she didn't even like him upon first meeting. So Wash is a changing element for her... too bad we didn't get to see what changes Wash might have brought out of Zoe.
Oh and GINA TORRES IS FREAKY LUSHIOUS! Mmmmm... warrior woman. She has a perfect profile. Anyone ever notice? Perfect!
Oops! Gotta go work or something.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
As another random thought:
It occurred to me that Zoe might be a survivor of some War-era youth training program. It'd certainly account for her overall badassitude and by-the-book personality, as well as her utter devotion to Mal. It might even explain her marriage to Wash, whose reckless fun-loving personality are the exact counterpoint to just about everything she's been brought up to be. Wash liberates her.
Now, child soldiers doesn't seem like something the Independents would try, unless the war got really desperate. The Alliance, OTOH. . .
Possibly Zoe was a soldier who somehow developed some sense of morals. Maybe even outright sympathy for the Independents. Maybe Mal (or, more accurately, Mal's unit) rescued her, and she repaid that the only way she knew how --total loyalty to her Superior Officer.
-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
Hmmm...let me pursue your theory a bit. So, we have Zoe as a child-soldier of the Alliance rescued by Mal's unit. She would believe that the enemy would do all manner of unseemly things to her body from her training. Instead, they treat her with dignity and respect and her loyalty is eventually won. Hmmm. that could be and might explain the lack of other females in the war flashback sequences. Believe me, I've looked at dead and alive both for more women and haven't detected even one other woman. It doesn't make sense that the Alliance would use child soldiers.
Rather, what if Zoe is not a child, but an adolescent who has determined to dedicate herself to the war effort in retaliation for what may have happened to her loved ones or her way of living. She may even have done the "Joan of Arc" thing, disguising herself as a male in order to be allowed to make her mark in the war. Hey, if it's good enough for Eowyn....
By the time her secret is known, her value as a fighting instrument is reknowned and she is accepted as a part of the team (now letting her hair grow back or whatever. It does seem odd that she is fighting with all that hair. At the very least you would think they would have braided it up and put it up on her head to be more functional. but I digress...).
So that explains her presence in the war, her devotion to the cause. It doesn't explain her devotion to Mal, though. It would have to be more than being accepted into his unit, yes?
And Cybersnark, I LOVE badassitude!! Can I borrow that word?
insight spinner
__________
Just an object. It doesn't mean what you think....
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sarahetc:Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:Quote:
Originally posted by Sarahetc:
Wonderful Zoe questions. The surprise-left theory is very juicy.
Glad to see you post Sarahetc. It is has been awhile since I saw a post from you & was wondering where you had gotten to.
Hey, thanks. I still read every day, but I don't have much to add to most threads lately. And I'm of the "if you can't say anything interesting, don't say anything at all" school of posting.
I've thought some more about Zoe and what I can come up with is that the war has been the most significant event of her life. It now informs even what happened before the war.
At the same time, I can't get over the honest, loyal and straightforward hurdle. Like I said before, the "surprise left" theory is super juicy and fun to think about, but it seems contrary to her fundamental Zoe-ness that she would perpetrate anything against Mal. That does not take into consideration any traumatic events that might happen in the future, but at this point, she's Zoe. I think we don't know much about her because she doesn't want us to know much about her.
I'm a dying breed who still believes, haunted by American dreams. ---Neko Case
Glad to see you are still around Sarahetc. I was beginning to wonder where all the browncoats that had been posting here since I joined back in the day had gone.
I agree w/ your "if you can't say anything interesting, don't say anything at all school of posting" philosophy. I have found myself w/ less to offer to many of the threads that have been posted of late.
I find myself wondering what Zoe was like before the war. Was she always so hard and soft spoken? Did she know Mal before the war began? Did she go to war only because Mal volunteered? I do agree w/ you though that the war has most likely been the most significant event in her life as far formative events.
I agree that Zoid's "surprise left" theory is interesting and bears consideration, I am drawn up short by Zoe's personality as well. She is a woman of few words, but when she speaks, what she has to say is worth hearing. She is a woman of action and is the one person you can rely on in a firefight. Zoe is not duplicitous, nor is she the type to serve her own interests. Zoe is the futuristic example of a myrmidon. Her loyalty to Mal is unswerving. She would die to protect anyone of the crew because they are her family, her unit if you will.
In thinking on it, I don't think Zoe is more than she seems, more likely she has a past she does not talk about because she sees no need. Unless Joss is one sneaky individual, I think Zoe is the one character we can count on to be the rock of the crew.
"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."
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Cybersnark, Insight Spinner, Browncoat1 and Ghoulman, et al:
I've read your posts intervening since my last, and I find them thoughtful and interesting (as always). I am particularly intrigued by 'snark's suggestions.
Bearing in mind Firefly's Oriental underpinnings, I immediately thought of a venerable warrior tradition: the samurai of Japan. For some reason, I never really considered Zoë in quite that light, but 'snark's comment about child-soldiers reminded me of the children on "The Last Samurai" training and kicking T. Cruise's ass.
On the other hand, I don't see Zoë being as single-minded as Kurt Russell's character 'SGT Todd 3465' from "Soldier" (a movie I enjoyed enough to repeat view, even though Russell's man-as-German-Shepherd was pretty campy). She's a very mature and well-socialized human, in a way that makes me doubt she has been through a deprogramming process. Still, citing from "Last Samurai" as though it was a credible reference on that culture, those samurai were respectful and humane within their communities and appreciative of the arts and philosophy; they were humans, even though they were fearsome and inhumane warriors (zoid suddenly remembers Zoë unceremoniously slitting an enemy's throat in "The Message"). Therefore a traditional samurai upbringing for Zoë might render the character we observe.
On a final note, I never meant to imply that when Joss 'hits us... with a surprise left' (thnx E. Vedder) that it will be in the form of a betrayal on the part of Zoë. I believe she is the steadfast character she appears to be, to the same depth that I believe Book is a man of genuine morality. Neither of these characters is other than they appear in terms of their essential nature. But I believe both have a startling revelation in store for us; we expect Book's mystery. The fact that we don't expect Zoë's may make it more mind-bending.
'Pretentious' mentioned the deleted line of Zoë's indicating that she had been raised on a ship. The more I think of that, the more I think, "Why did JW pull that line from the scene?" It's not a deleted scene; the scene is in HoG. It wasn't too time-consuming; it would only have added maybe 10 seconds to that included scene. It wasn't awkward or inconsequential to the discussion between Zoë and her husband: it was a germane question.
I'm beginning to believe Joss whipped out the Big Book of Firefly and either said, "No, it isn't true that she was raised on a ship; take the line out," or he said, "No, I'm not ready to let that clue slip out about Zoë just yet; take it out." Either way, if Joss went to the Big Book to nix that one simple, innocuous line, then he's definitely got something up his sleeve.
Or not. ;)
Respectfully,
zoid
P.S.
Spinner, you may be right about Zoë pretending to be a guy, but I kinda doubt any guy would be fooled. She's definitely all girl. Of course, I'd have also said you couldn't make me believe Hilary Swank was a guy, either (especially considering the way she over-filled the gown she wore to accept her Oscar for that performance; here's a peek http://tinyurl.com/28fy9).
_________________________________________________
"History may say I saved River; but it's not like that. No, that's not it at all. I saved my sister."
- Simon Tam, M.D., husband and father of 4, Jiangyin; from A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence Wilkins, Richard
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>>Remember, her marriage to Wash is recent and she didn't even like him upon first meeting. So Wash is a changing element for her... too bad we didn't get to see what changes Wash might have brought out of Zoe.<<
That's the one thing about the series that never made sense to me. How did she get from not liking Wash to marrying him?? No hints, nothing about what made her do an about-face.
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