Zoë Warren: Most Mysterious Character?
POSTED BY: zoid
UPDATED: Friday, May 21, 2004 20:31
VIEWED: 7756
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Gotta go with Gunhand on the medical skills theory. Experience is the best teacher as they say and war provides plenty of experience with wounds. Also, since we know nothing of her past really, who's to say that she isn't 'burdened with an overabundance of schooling'. She may have grown up around learned folk and been priveledged with a formal education, which seems to be rare in the future 'verse. As has been pointed out, she is/seems rather intellingent and has no problem using her powers of reasoning to bringing Mal back down to 'earth' when needed.
The truth is, we may never know enough to satisfy our curiousity, but we can hope the Joss will show us a little more in the movie(s) since it looks like he will be limited to that format for telling his beloved story (unless they make comics or graphic novels or the like). Guess we'll have to wait and see.
"Possibly you're not recalling some of the captains previous plans."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sarahetc:
Wonderful Zoe questions. The surprise-left theory is very juicy.
Some thoughts: "Warren" isn't canon, that I know of, and I pay really close attention to all things Wash and Zoe. Somebody put it up on the IMDB over a year ago and now that's a reference, when there's no show/script reference that confirms it. Same for Jerry Lee (tricky!) and Washburn. Nathan Fillion referenced "Washburn" and I'm inclined to believe him, but he specifically left out whether or not it was a first or last name. I'm not saying it won't come to pass that Warren is the name of names, but it's not canon now and I'm irrationally vehement about it.
I'm also inclined to agree with Astriana about the necklace, with one caveat: she tranfered meanings as part of transfering her loyalty. It was a symbol she chose before or during the war, that meant loyalty for her. As she transferred that loyalty from one thing to another, she changed the meaning of the necklace. I can see her telling Wash "this is an important symbol to me. I have had it for a long time. And now it is significant because I say it binds me to you." It's a little like wearing your grandmother's wedding band or something-- it's not specifically for you, but you imbue (dun dun dun) the item with your meaning.
I think the critical event is the war and specifially, the Battle of Serenity. If Mal were commanding some vast number at the start and down to just the hundreds by the time they were rescued, I'd think it would be instinctual level coping that would keep Zoe loyal to him. I know that's not a precise enough answer. Don't you just ache to see the scene specifically-- with all the blood and gore and tears and heart? I do.
As for where she's from-- she's from space. I think that that is so interesting about her. Even though we don't know what ship, where, when or anything, she claims she grew up fine on a space ship. Which could, not coincidentally, be one of the reasons she stays with Mal-- he seems very up front about getting a ship and getting out into the black. Perhaps, among other things, she sees sticking with him as an opportunity to be a spacer again.
I'm going to keep thinking about her being the one they'd need to watch out for. My first reaction is gut, like, 'naw, Zoe doesn't play.' But then little molecules of doubt creep in; she's quiet and deadly.
Very excellent thread.
I'm a dying breed who still believes, haunted by American dreams. ---Neko Case
Glad to see you post Sarahetc. It is has been awhile since I saw a post from you & was wondering where you had gotten to.
"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:Quote:
Originally posted by Sarahetc:
Wonderful Zoe questions. The surprise-left theory is very juicy.
Glad to see you post Sarahetc. It is has been awhile since I saw a post from you & was wondering where you had gotten to.
Hey, thanks. I still read every day, but I don't have much to add to most threads lately. And I'm of the "if you can't say anything interesting, don't say anything at all" school of posting.
I've thought some more about Zoe and what I can come up with is that the war has been the most significant event of her life. It now informs even what happened before the war.
At the same time, I can't get over the honest, loyal and straightforward hurdle. Like I said before, the "surprise left" theory is super juicy and fun to think about, but it seems contrary to her fundamental Zoe-ness that she would perpetrate anything against Mal. That does not take into consideration any traumatic events that might happen in the future, but at this point, she's Zoe. I think we don't know much about her because she doesn't want us to know much about her.
I'm a dying breed who still believes, haunted by American dreams. ---Neko Case
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As a "grown up on a ship" datapoint: note how impressed Zoe was with Wash's piloting ("That's my man") when they went back to rescue Mal from Niska.
Now, on one hand, she knows more about flying than, say, Jayne (to know how impressive it is what Wash was doing). OTOH, she doesn't seem so familiar with it that she'd be jaded.
And in OiS, remember how flustered she was (for her) when digging the bullet out of Simon. She wasn't entirely sure of her surgical skills. Something about being more experienced at puttin' them into people.
-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
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Cybersnark, et al:
Der 'snark wrote:
Quote:
As a "grown up on a ship" datapoint: note how impressed Zoe was with Wash's piloting ("That's my man") when they went back to rescue Mal from Niska.
Now, on one hand, she knows more about flying than, say, Jayne (to know how impressive it is what Wash was doing). OTOH, she doesn't seem so familiar with it that she'd be jaded.
Dude/ette (sorry, there are no hints on your Member Profile page), you totally reminded me of something! Who flies the shuttle when Mal rendezvouses (checked that one with Merriam-Webster) with shady types at 'the corner of No and Where'? Zoë does. She's a pilot. Remember in "War Stories" Wash mangles the shuttle's launch sequence so Zoë can't access it.
Here endeth the interruption...
Respectfully,
zoid
_________________________________________________
"History may say I saved River; but it's not like that. No, that's not it at all. I saved my sister."
- Simon Tam, M.D., husband and father of 4, Jiangyin; from A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence Wilkins, Richard
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On the subject of Zoe being a pilot ...
At the end of Serenity (the Pilot), Mal takes over the helm after Wash gets them out of the atmosphere. Mal even flicks some switches & generally makes it look like he's doing more than babysitting.
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Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
Cybersnark, et al:
Der 'snark wrote:Quote:
As a "grown up on a ship" datapoint: note how impressed Zoe was with Wash's piloting ("That's my man") when they went back to rescue Mal from Niska.
Now, on one hand, she knows more about flying than, say, Jayne (to know how impressive it is what Wash was doing). OTOH, she doesn't seem so familiar with it that she'd be jaded.
Dude/ette (sorry, there are no hints on your Member Profile page), you totally reminded me of something! Who flies the shuttle when Mal rendezvouses (checked that one with Merriam-Webster) with shady types at 'the corner of No and Where'? Zoë does. She's a pilot. Remember in "War Stories" Wash mangles the shuttle's launch sequence so Zoë can't access it.
Here endeth the interruption...
Respectfully,
zoid
_________________________________________________
"History may say I saved River; but it's not like that. No, that's not it at all. I saved my sister."
- Simon Tam, M.D., husband and father of 4, Jiangyin; from A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence Wilkins, Richard
Hello Zoid...
True she does fly a shuttle, but so does Inara and Mal. I think shuttle flying is a mite bit different than flying something like Serenity So all of them are pilots...kinda, but not Pilots like Wash is.
Mal does do Captainy flicking of switches too, and in Out of Gas he's the one that diverts the fire out of the airlock and all. And as stated takes over a bit. But I think that's more "Captain read the manual" than actual skill at piloting the thing. Give me a manual and in theory I could fly a B-52, but just basic things, I couldn't do anything fancy, wouldn't remember right off the top of my head what all the switches did, and wouldn't know what to do in an emergency by instinct. So Mal's a 'kinda pilot' and may even have more book knowledge of it that Zoe in fact.
Speaking of Book, he knows where the engine subsystems are in Serenity and also in The Message he does a pretty good job of running scans of the planet to find the Alliance base and spectrum band analysis to tell that Womack hasn't sent any messages. I'd be very interested to see what would happen if there was some sort of emergency that needed some fancy flying with Wash incapacitated. My money is on Book being the man to do it...
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
"Oh hey, I got an idea. Instead of us hanging
around playing art critic till I get pinched by
the Man, how's about we move away from this
eerie-ass piece of work and get on with our
increasingly eerie-ass day, how's that?"
My eerie-ass website:
http://gunhandsfirefly.homestead.com/Index.html
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Gunny wrote, amongst other things:
Quote:
True she does fly a shuttle, but so does Inara and Mal.
I don't think there's much evidence that Mal does fly a shuttle. In "War Stories", he clearly expects Zoë to fly the shuttle, and he does not threaten to fly it himself. He tells Zoë and Wash to figure out which of them is going to pilot to the rendezvous, so they can get going.
The only time I remember Mal acting like he was going to do something operator-like with a shuttle was when he started the preflight on Inara's bird in OoG; whereupon she promptly pushes him aside and says, "You never did know how to run this thing." As far as Mal taking the console while Zoë and Wash head back for some 'R&R', looks to me like it was already on autopilot (he stows the flight yoke) and all he was doing was stationkeeping -- you know, watching the dials, listening for alarms, that sort of thing. ...Kinda like the old NASA joke that ends with the punchline, "Feed the monkey".
Since the hard part of flying is -- by consensus -- takeoffs and particularly landings, I'd say that atmospheric shuttle piloting is fairly tricky indeed (though not as hard as dodging in and out of canyons in something as big as a cargo ship). We don't really know what Book can do, but Zoë and Inara must be pretty good at handling a stick (everyone out of the gutter, please). I suspect Inara's Guild training includes operating air- and spacecraft, in addition to hand-to-hand combat (evidenced in OMR), melee weapons (evidenced in "Shindig") and using sexual skills in order to incapacitate/poison targets (again, OMR). I'd bet good money she's a crack shot with a bow and long-range target rifle, too. *Ker-she's-an-assassin-chooo!* Gesundheit to myself! (Sniffle)...and she plays a wicked game of pub darts.
As regards Zoë's mysterious past, where would a groundling grunt pick up piloting skills? With the exception of a single deleted line, we have no clues. But to reiterate the focal point of the thread, what is Joss hiding in this character, while distracting us with Inara's, Book's and River's all-too-apparent mysteries? I don't think it's anything sinister, quite the contrary; but, I definitely get the sneaking suspicion that JW's got something 'in the hole' on this one, and that it'll absolutely knock our heads off.
Respectfully,
zoid
_________________________________________________
"History may say I saved River; but it's not like that. No, that's not it at all. I saved my sister."
- Simon Tam, M.D., husband and father of 4, Jiangyin; from A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence Wilkins, Richard
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Good points again, as always Zoid.
Almost forgot. Hello Zoid...
Mal does fly a shuttle though in Trash, when he and YoSaffBridge leave Serenity to go to the floaty island he's the one flying it not her.
As to where Zoe learned to fly a shuttle, that's something we really don't know. But since most guys like sharing their interests with their significant other I'm willing to assume that Wash probably showed her a few things, and if she showed any interest at all he probably gave her a full blown unofficial flight school. Zoe's a smart cookie, as a matter of fact in sheer smarts she's probably the smartest of the actual crew, discounting the "passengers" which include Mr. 3% and his Math Using Sister here.
I'm not sure Zoe actually needs a mysterious past, she's kind of like the ship's rock. When Mal comes up with a stupid idea who's the one to tell him it's stupid? Zoe. And Mal listens to her. She's the sounding board and for lack of a term that really fits the "straight (wo)man" of the bunch. She can tell Jayne to stand down and he does. She can tell Wash to come back from the funny place and he does. And she's the one that glares when anyone does something to Kaylee. When someone needs to know something important about Reavers or the War or Griswalds who does the exposition? Zoe.
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
"Oh hey, I got an idea. Instead of us hanging
around playing art critic till I get pinched by
the Man, how's about we move away from this
eerie-ass piece of work and get on with our
increasingly eerie-ass day, how's that?"
My eerie-ass website:
http://gunhandsfirefly.homestead.com/Index.html
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Gunhand wrote:
Quote:
Mal does fly a shuttle though in Trash, when he and YoSaffBridge leave Serenity to go to the floaty island he's the one flying it not her.
Yep, yer right. QED.
So, you're thinking the reason there's no smoke with Zoë is because there's no fire? Care to go on the record with that opinion? I would challenge you to a wager, but it'd be like stealing.
Problem is, unless there's a return to series television, I doubt we'll ever find out even over the course of three BDMs. The only person(s) that know(s) at this point are/is JW and possibly TM.
BTW, if JW/TM would like me to cease and desist with all my speculating, all they gotta do is email me a copy of 'The Big Book' of Firefly they're sitting on, along with a non-disclosure agreement. I'll promptly sign it in blood and then drop off of FFFn without a trace... ;)
Respectfully,
zoid
_________________________________________________
"History may say I saved River; but it's not like that. No, that's not it at all. I saved my sister."
- Simon Tam, M.D., husband and father of 4, Jiangyin; from A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence Wilkins, Richard
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