It's called "torture" Mr. Bush

POSTED BY: Ghoulman
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 15:55
VIEWED: 24944
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GHOULMAN

Friday, May 7, 2004 3:52 PM

To TALVIN - Well, I can't but ask why not? Are browncoats just TV geeks with no interest outside a TV show? Why can't browncoats get together on politics? Religion? Sex? You know... issues that are very well represented by Firefly.

Firefly isn't a childrens show, it's got all these things as integeral elements in the lives of the characters. Just as these things are integral to you and me.

I can see where you are right of course, it might seem like a 'positive' thing to keep the BBS a nice, quiet, geeky fanboy discussion site. But for me, and I suspect the more mature Firefly audience, I can only discuss Serenitys' engine proporties for so long.

DORAN

Friday, May 7, 2004 3:55 PM

I was afraid of this; any warped person that dislikes the US will now come forward and claim, "I was 'tortured'" "I was forced to wear a doggie chain and howl at the moon." "they slapped me with a balonie" "they turned me into a newt.. well, I got better." It was just a matter of time.

The thing that urks me the most is that somehow these reports of abuse are "extremely horrible", more horrible than anything ever, but if we instead released the prisoners shot them, burned them at the stake, dragged their burn bodies around in the streets and then hung them from bridges, that would be ok, because that's in the battlefield and it's war.

Shouldn't this behavior not be offensive at all to Iraqis.. after all "they are not ready for democracy" "They are only used to trannical rule" right? It's the Americans that should be the most offended because we expect better of ourselves and our enemies.

Our enemies are using this incident to it's full advantage... to fan hatrd both here and in the middle east. It doesn't matter if Bush had taken personal responsiblity and offered to compensate these "victims"; Bush could have lay protrate at their feet and apologized and it would do no good. They hate, they hate, they hate.. just like the liberals. Even if the US pulled out now they would still hate and still fight against their "great satan".

And they do look at the USA as their "great satan" which has nothing to do with president Bush.. That's just they way they have been raised... they were raised like KKK children.. kids being taught "who do we hate?" "we hate the USA!" Long before George Bush was a public figure the USA was hated by Muslims..
They would be a much different group without the hate which they will never let loose of.

MAUGWAI

Friday, May 7, 2004 4:02 PM

I agree that the torture is horrible and we should investigate it and own up to it. However, I would like to know the publication where you found this article. As someone who works in journalism, I have to say this reporter has a very unprofessional technique. If I had to guess, I'd say he writes for an Arab newspaper. So we need to keep that in mind. This reporter clearly has an agenda, so some of his information is probably exaggerated.

I am not trying to imply at all that the abuse didn't happen or that it is in any way excusable. I just want to point out that we need to separate the propaganda from the facts.

"Dear diary, today I was pompous and my sister was crazy."

TALVIN

Friday, May 7, 2004 4:06 PM

To GHOULMAN:

Because we are a community, one that you have clearly disparaged and do not consider yourself part of. If you feel this is so important, go start your own. "Browncoats against Bush" if you like, or whatever.

This community has nothing to do with "engine properties" and a great deal to do with support and friendship. Your reply to my post shows that your main interest is in starting a fight, and that means you do not belong here.

Now leave.

"I give up. I admit it. I'm a Browncoat."

BROWNCOAT1

Friday, May 7, 2004 4:08 PM

Ghoulman wrote:

Quote:
^^^ sounds like Lou Dobbs *chuckle*. Speaking of Mercenaries... anyone notice the American Mercenary arrested for the train bombings in Spain?

Who are these people???

Just because this mercenary can claim American citizenship, does not mean his actions were done w/ the knowledge or support of other American citizens or what passes for our government in Washington, DC. Big difference.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

SUCCATASH

Friday, May 7, 2004 4:10 PM

Talvin,

Stop telling people what to say and how to act.

ASTRIANA

Friday, May 7, 2004 4:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Thanx Astriana, certainly if Haken comes along and wants it gone... well, his house.

That's all I'm sayin'...

Quote:
And Firefly is a rather mature show, I wonder just what you might find appropreate considering this show has featured the sort of sex act I mentioned above (sort of). So I'm a little surprised you think this.

That's a topic for a whole other thread, but suffice it to say I'm not nearly the prude you might think I am, darlin'.

Quote:
Anyho, gotta love ya for standin' up.

There's that Browncoat spirit!

---We now return you to your regularly scheduled debate...

---

~A~

...I'm still free,
You can't take the sky from me.

KNIBBLET

Friday, May 7, 2004 4:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Doran:
They hate, they hate, they hate.. just like the liberals.

Pardon me? What exactly do I hate?

I am an American from a long line of military veterans. I am a veteran married to a military retiree.

My volunteer job is recording college text books for the blind. I volunteer teaching children to read. I go to church (sometimes), I am active in my community. I've voted in every election since I turned 18.

I love my country. I love what is left of my constitution. I believe that we should live by a higher standard. We signed the Geneva Conventions - we are bound to uphold them.

Thank you for pointing out to me that I'm a liberal hater. What exactly is liberal about wanting freedom of religion and power over my own destiny. What exactly do I hate?

"Just keep walkin, preacher man."

HKCAVALIER

Friday, May 7, 2004 4:21 PM

Geez AURaptor,

So all the abused prisoners "had it coming?" Because they had attacked guards and the like? Is this what is called "the punishment fitting the crime?"

You say:

Quote:
I'd write a big long bit about how some soldiers clearly did over step their bounds and should ( make that WILL ) get punishment,but whats the point, most of what I'd say would be ignored anyways.

Is this a plea for pity? Nobody cares about what the poor little reactionary has to say? Sorry, but your persecution complex is showing. Well, in the unforgettable words of Luke Skywalker, let me say this: "I care."

You do have some kind of a point, because even though hazing is illegal on every college campus in the land as well as at every millitary academy, it is still a big part of these cultures. It is what goes on. No one should be too surprised.

But one of the reasons hazing continues to flourish in spite of strict laws forbidding it is that the hazees, for the most part, willingly participate as part of their innition into the group. That's what differentiates the torture that goes on as part of hazing and mere torture. Furthermore, in actual hazing, those doing the hazing have themselves been subject to the same abuse when they joined the organization (at least, that's how it's supposed to work). And, indeed, I'm sure that the men in these organizations have and will justify the rape of female caddets, for instance, as hazing as well, even though such women will never be in a position to continue such "traditions" themselves. But just because you torture pledges with broomhandles and call it hazing, doesn't mean you can just torture with broomhandles anyone you feel like and call that hazing. See what I mean?

But, as you say, this is war. As a soldier it is your job to destroy people. When you are faced with an enemy that is wholely in your power and at your mercy you may continue trying to destroy them because that's what you are conditioned to do. But that's why we have what is called "international law."

That you, AURaptor, could call what is happening to the POWs in Iraq "hazing" is a hateful misuse of the term. These are prisoners of war, they have committed no crime, they are not Saddam Hussein, and they are not being invited to join a frat. They are human beings worthy of respect. What part of "worthy of respect" don't you understand?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

DORAN

Friday, May 7, 2004 4:42 PM

"Pardon me? What exactly do I hate?"

If you are a liberal you hate George Bush; you hate him because he won the election.. you hate him because he's President.. and it's really all boils down to that.

All the anti George Bush crap is put forth many times without any real documentation mainly as a product of Bush hate. I'm sorry but I do buy the Bush is really evil arguement.

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