Parents of Adolf Hitler Campbell lose custody
POSTED BY: canttakesky
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 8, 2023 07:40
VIEWED: 6710
PAGE 7 of 10
Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Some of these are detailed in the UN Convention on the rights of children.
Which the US has very pointedly REFUSED to sign, period.
And that right there oughta tell ya, underneath all the glossy legalese doubletalk, which kinda "rights" kids get here in the USA - essentially, none whatever.
Hell, when the FLDS was fighting to get their kids back, they had at one point to file under an act originally penned to demand the return of livestock - seriously, in many places housepets and livestock are better protected under the law than children.
That said, CPS is wholly untrustworthy in my experience, and Siggy nails why in great part - depending on the position it either requires ridiculous credentials for a salary that flat isn't worth it, so you wind up with "crusaders" of one stripe or another, and the inevitable corruption of additional sources of income - or the qualifications are too low, as again is the payroll, and many of the same problems apply as well as inevitable burnout and secondary PTSD being a real and common problem.
Not to mention the ludicrous caseload, and political interference via directives from on-high, officially or otherwise, which even further complicate matters such as the case of the primarily Baptist CPS folk bending and breaking the rules against the sorta-Mormon FLDS, and so on and so forth - TRUST me, if you were a Mormon in Kentucky, or a Baptist in Utah, CPS is gonna give you ten tons of extra shit just BECAUSE of that no matter what the paper says because there is too damn little accountability and their whole damn heirarchy is set up to insulate THEMSELVES from consequence, deserved or no - to the exclusion of their primary duty cause without that NO ONE, would work for them at all.
The system as it stands flat doesn't work - and yes it needs to be rebuilt from the top down, starting with a universal set of standards instead of this arbitrary hit or miss sledgehammer flyswatting bullshit, it needs to be properly funded, including employee compensation, and not just properly credentialed so much as a NEW set of specific credentials being established as a minimum standard for employment, with further training and reqs for advancement and management, specific to the details of the job.
AND
This whole dumping kids on temp fosters of dubious provenance is a huge part of the problem, one of the things necessary to this is a stable, structured environment run by professionals and overseen by an independant board to place children with while cases are being investigated and processed - WHOS PERSONNEL DO NOT ANSWER TO EITHER CPS OR THE PARENTS - being thus essentially Guardian Ad Litem and concerned wholly with the childs welfare, anything less corrupts the process, cause y'all have never seen some of the horrors visited upon kids by CPS workers hell bent on a finding for reasons that have shit to do with the welfare of the kids, or conversely, visited upon kids by parents who have been victimizing them... problem is that these days dumping them on these fosters is often pouring gasoline on a fire, as are state run facilities like Hawthorne - remember what happened to Arianna Godboldo as soon as they dumped her in there, right ?
And yes, all of this requires funding, which politicians (and frankly, a lot of the public) have no interest in doing, the former cause kids don't vote and the latter cause they don't think there's nothin in it for em since the shortsighted bastards don't ever seen to connect mistreated childen to the gangbangers who just worked em over... hell one reason I am not so very kind to senior citizens as a rule is their adbication of responsibility and dumping their fucking problems and debt on me before I was even born - kids hold a grudge, people, it's there whether it's conscious or not and directed at us and our society for bloody good reasons much of the time, but I digress...
Point of that is every penny you put into it at THIS end, saves us dollars on the other in law enforcement, court cost
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Ohhh good grief.
Originally posted by SignyM:
Byte, have you thought more about taking B complex vitamins?
You do tend to come off as reflexively anti-government. It's not that there is anything wrong with being anti-government, it's the "reflexive" part that may be a problem.
Anyway, if you can set aside your feelings (and this goes for everyone) perhaps a solution can be found.
Patronize much?
-----
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth. -- Lucy Parsons (1853-1942, labor activist and anarcho-communist)
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Thank you for asking me, instead of erroneously assuming and accusing that I would say "Nobody [other than the parent]" like Siggy. I appreciate it, Magon.
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
I'd ask you the same question. Who does decide when it is time to intervene in a family?
I think "abuse" needs to be collectively defined by the kids, the parents, and the community. First and foremost, the kids should have their say. If they feel abused and neglected, then their opinion should be taken very seriously by the community, even if the parents are doing what most parents in that situation are doing. Likewise, if they don't feel abused, that opinion should carry a lot of weight, despite how different the parents are.
I truly do not believe in a one-size-fits-all definition of abuse. All that leads to is a legal "standard of care" similar to the one used to defend medical decisions in court. Care becomes determined by conformity rather than what is best for the patient. Care becomes what covers the parents' legal asses rather than what is best for the child.
I think every community should have a "safehouse" or a hotline where children can get free counseling. This may be a church or a school program or a private charity outfit. (It doesn't have to be govt operated, but if it were, I wouldn't complain too much.) I believe strongly that the process of sussing out abuse needs to start with the kids. Not self-righteous neighbors or teachers or whatnot. The kids need to start the process of rescuing themselves.
Once the kids have expressed concern, then a team of volunteer community members (not paid govt employees with untold powers) can assess the situation privately with the children, and if possible, the parents as well. They can also come up with a collective plan for intervention short of removing custody.
If the child needs to be removed forcibly from the parents, criminal charges should be filed. As such, all such proceedings should be transparent and public. Chronic emotional torture of a child should be a crime. Removal of custody must be a last resort instead of the first. (Right now, CPS pays lip service to this, but they don't actually abide by any such "last resort" policy.)
So, in short, I support a two-phase intervention process. First, an informal one with community members. Second, in cases of severe abuse, a formal criminal procedure to remove the children and place the parents in jail.
-----
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth. -- Lucy Parsons (1853-1942, labor activist and anarcho-communist)
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:This is a problem. This is why Ariana Godboldo was removed from her mother.
Originally posted by RionaEire:
Adequate medical care when sick.
If it were up to Siggy, she would have removed my child from me for this reason already.
If it were up to me, I might remove someone else's kid on chemotherapy.
We don't all agree on what constitutes "adequate medical care."
-----
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth. -- Lucy Parsons (1853-1942, labor activist and anarcho-communist)
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I'm glad we've come around to this topic CTS because it is the basis for the rumor I've heard about you, note that this rumor was stated out in the open on this forum, not in an email or anything. I would like to hear, in your own words, what the situation is with your kid, his health, why you decided to do what you did, or not do, and move to Peru where you don't have to do it.
You said some stuff in your last post that I find unsettling at best. First of all, kids often view their situation as normal, when they figure out it may not be depends on a lot of factors, but it is quite easy for a child to be being abused, given bruises, whipped etc. and to think its normal and okay, if they were raised to believe that it is an apropriate punishment then why would they doubt it unless friends at school find out and suggest otherwise etc. And most kids are taught to keep such things a secret anyways.
And then there's sexual abuse. Lets face it, sex and touching can feel very good physically, whether it is apropriate or not. So leaving it up to a young child to determine that it isn't okay isn't fair to that child. Children in general are adaptable and will accept a lot as normal until they're old enough/experienced enough to know better, which can vary wildly from person to person. Your policies on abuse "not being a one size fits all" concept scare me.
CTS, what do you think of parents who choose faith healing over other techniques like medicine? Do you think that is okay, especially when the kid is little and can't really speak for themself? In my state we're really tough on that kind of stuff and that's fine with me.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
I think "abuse" needs to be collectively defined by the kids, the parents, and the community. First and foremost, the kids should have their say. If they feel abused and neglected, then their opinion should be taken very seriously by the community, even if the parents are doing what most parents in that situation are doing. Likewise, if they don't feel abused, that opinion should carry a lot of weight, despite how different the parents are.
I agree that the community needs to be in constant dialogue on this issue, so that consensus can be reached and understood by all. Children too should have a voice in that. I have a lot of problems with asking children on an individual basis whether they feel abused or not. That is not to say that we should not listen to them seriously about their concerns, I just don't think they need to be asked to make a judgement. For starters, infants and very young children, the most vulnerable are unable to have that voice, so that judgement does need to made by someone else. But even with older children I have a problem. If they have lived all their life with abuse, they may see it as the norm, even if it of a horrific nature. To some degree or another, all children suffer from stockholm syndrome. They love their parents, even if they are abusers and may try at all costs and protect their abusers and hide the abuse. Family violence creates very complex issues which may beyond young children to name or understand. AS they get older, of course, they see things more clearly and often vote with their feet. And that is the reason that Child Protection services intervene less often.
Quote:
I truly do not believe in a one-size-fits-all definition of abuse. All that leads to is a legal "standard of care" similar to the one used to defend medical decisions in court. Care becomes determined by conformity rather than what is best for the patient. Care becomes what covers the parents' legal asses rather than what is best for the child.
I have a lot of problems with abuse being seen as subjective, although I recognise that there are fuzzy areas and cultural complexities. That being said, I think as a society we do have a common set of values around abuse and I think its okay to underscore them with laws (as is the case). So in this society, it is never acceptable for an adult to have sex with a child. So even if a family deemed that was acceptable behaviour, it is not acceptable to the society at large and therefore it would be necessary for an external authority to protect a child. The same goes for cultural norms, which are unable to be tolerated if they violate laws.
Quote:
I think every community should have a "safehouse" or a hotline where children can get free counseling. This may be a church or a school program or a private charity outfit. (It doesn't have to be govt operated, but if it were, I wouldn't complain too much.) I believe strongly that the process of sussing out abuse needs to start with the kids. Not self-righteous neighbors or teachers or whatnot. The kids need to start the process of rescuing themselves.
A great idea. So good, that it already happens. Kidsline is a free telephone service that children can access to get help and counselling. You may have something similar in the States.
Quote:
Once the kids have expressed concern, then a team of volunteer community members (not paid govt employees with untold powers) can assess the situation privately with the children, and if possible, the parents as well. They can also come up with a collective plan for intervention short of removing custody.
I'd hope that government employees in the US never had unlimited powers. They certainly don't here. I think they may be room for community volunteers to be involved in some way, and I can tell you that over the years they have been - yes in the USA, with community mediators helping families with their issues. I
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Thank you for asking me up front, instead of listening to people who lie about me. I appreciate it.
Originally posted by RionaEire:
I would like to hear, in your own words, what the situation is with your kid, his health, why you decided to do what you did, or not do, and move to Peru where you don't have to do it.
My child was born at home without medical intervention, happy and healthy at 95 percentile in weight. At 3 months of age, he started exhibiting severe eczema, gastrointestinal pain and vomiting, and failure to thrive. We tried various conventional medical interventions which actually made him worse. So we decided to try homeopathy, which improved some symptoms significantly (stopped vomiting and diarrhea), but did nothing for eczema and failure to thrive. His weight dipped below the charts. My MD physician recommended going to spend 3 months at a beach for his eczema. We couldn't afford a beach in the States, so we decided to go to a beach in South America. To our surprise, he got better in South America. So we decided to move down here.
In South America, his weight has steadily increased and his eczema disappeared entirely. He is now at 26th percentile for weight, and 54th percentile for height. He is happy and healthy and up to 3 months ago, he was entirely eczema free.
The last three months, some of his eczema has come back because they put up a new wifi antenna in our neighborhood. We are trying to fix that problem now.
When it comes to medical abuse, the proof is in the pudding. If it works, it is not abusive, no matter how much you may disagree with the method.
Quote:
but it is quite easy for a child to be being abused, given bruises, whipped etc. and to think its normal and okay, if they were raised to believe that it is an apropriate punishment then why would they doubt it unless friends at school find out and suggest otherwise etc.
Do you know any abused kids? They might think it is "normal" as in all other kids suffer such indignities as well, but they still know it causes them pain and want it to stop. It is not hard to find out they are being abused if anyone would pay amount of attention to them at all.
Quote:Sure, for fear of punishment. But they aren't that good at keeping secrets. Again, attentiveness to and love for the child would suss the secret out without much effort.
And most kids are taught to keep such things a secret anyways.
Quote:I have never met a sexually abused child who thinks or thought it was okay and that it felt good. They feel deep shame, humiliation, and want it to stop.
And then there's sexual abuse. Lets face it, sex and touching can feel very good physically, whether it is apropriate or not. So leaving it up to a young child to determine that it isn't okay isn't fair to that child.
Here is the bottom line, Rion. I trust kids. I trust their instincts and their ability to know when something isn't right. If you don't, then you would want to take over their decision making process and do things differently than I would. Different philosophical assumptions will lead to different solutions.
I know abused kids, both mildly abused and severely abused. They ALL know what they want to stop.
Quote:What scares you about it?
Your policies on abuse "not being a one size fits all" concept scare me.
Quote:Absolutely I think it is ok. As ok as Medicine is ok.
CTS, what do you think of parents who choose faith healing over other techniques like medicine? Do you think that is okay, especially when the kid is little and can't really speak for themself?
Medicine itself is nothing much more than witch doctoring and faith healing as well. The difference is YOU have faith in it, so this type of faith healing is completely acceptable to YOU. It really is a war of faiths, a war of different gods. It is a battle of "My healing god is better than your healing god."
I read a book written by parents who with
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Magon, I will address your post tomorrow. Not ignoring you. Good dialogue.
-----
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth. -- Lucy Parsons (1853-1942, labor activist and anarcho-communist)
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Rion
Ahem. Well, the story that CTSky gave you is not the story she told 6 years ago.
Then, she indicated there WAS successful treatment available which she elected not to use:
My son has a relatively rare condition where he is allergic to or intolerant of all foods. It causes malaborption and undernourishment, which leads to failure to thrive (failure to grow). I suppose, if left untreated, they could die. The treatment is to put them on a special formula that contains no proteins for them to react to. The formula is slightly bitter, so babies refuse to drink it. Insertion of a feeding tube directly into the stomach or intestines is very common.
Once they are on this formula, they grow normally. But many of these kids remain dependent on this formula--it appears for the rest of their lives. They have food trials to find the few foods they can tolerate, but their main nourishment comes from drinking this stuff.
I opted for an alternative therapy because I don't want him to be dependent on formula for the rest of his life. It is working slowly, but it is working. The disadvantage is that it works slower than formula in helping him catch-up his growth. The advantage is it helps him to tolerate food better, whereas the formula doesn't. He can now eat most vegetables and grow at the same time. Most of his other symptoms are gone too, though not all yet.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Hi CTS, I'm glad that the climate in Peru is good for your family and that your son is doing well currently. Some kiddos do grow out of exima, it sounds like he was doing okay for a while, it was in remission, but its back again. My Rachie had pretty bad exima until she was about 13 or 14 and then she began growing out of the worst of it, what she has now as an adult is a lot less severe and doesn't cause much trouble at all from what I can tell, in comparison to how it used to be.
I just don't think abuse is okay. My grandma used to beat on my dad when he was a kid. It wasn't okay, even though she did love him, she was doing what she knew, how she was raised. It wasn't okay though and she really should have been advised about how to do things differently. She now says she wishes that she'd been taught another way to discipline since she realizes in hindsight that it wasn't okay. Was it still abuse? Technically yes because she would leave marks on him. I wouldn't minimalize it.
What you and I can agree on though is that taking children away should not be the first thing tried, in fact it should be a last resort in most cases. I think we can also agree on the idea that the child's needs should be considered first and formost. And yes, the primary ingredient in sexual abuse is shame, that is usually the top feeling that a child feels, shame and emotional pain. All I'm saying is that its such a deep and complicated thing that sometimes, for various reasons, little ones are afraid to come forward, or older ones too. So I don't think we should only address problems if the kid admits its a problem/initiates the helping process, but of course a kid being the first one to initiate can be good because it means that they are strong and brave and able to advocate for themselves, self advocacy should be encouraged with children, as well as with anyone else.
Faith healing: Why do people have to be so extreme, can't it be both instead of either/or? I'm a Christian and prayer is an important part of what I do in my life, the choices I make, the things I do. But that doesn't mean I shouldn't be doing everything else I can to help myself.
If something isn't working though I do agree that its good to try other things to see what one can find that does work, natural medicine, conventional medicine, both, etc.
I appreciate you telling me yourself because I'd rather hear things from a person than from hearsay. Its only fair.
I still think that faith healing alone is irresponsable, and from what I've experienced God doesn't reward irresponsability. It sounds like you agree.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME