Here it is the libs are coming after our guns
POSTED BY: kaneman
UPDATED: Saturday, February 19, 2011 15:04
VIEWED: 19911
PAGE 19 of 22
Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"But if the Fed were to begin printing an endless stream of currency it would lead to devaluation and runaway inflation."
Hello,
This is correct, and it is conspicuously absent from your prognostications of disaster. I'm curious as to why, since it is the most obvious path the government would take.
All I said was the lack of hard capital in the form of loans would force the government to go on a crash diet. That diet can come from having plenty of worthless money in the coffers, or little or no still viable money in the coffers. Do you really want to argue the mechanism? Or is this just a nitpick?
The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.
...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36
Hello,
I was arguing for a better prognostication. I expect a strong temptation for the government to create money to meet shortfalls before any serious 'diet' manifests itself. The 'diet' you speak of is something I anticipate as taking place only after the currency has been devalued, and they simply can't pretend anymore.
I think of it as a very important step on the continuum of ruin.
--Anthony
Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.
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Quote:I think Hardware just skipped to "can't pretend anymore" and went straight to talking about the ruin.
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
The 'diet' you speak of is something I anticipate as taking place only after the currency has been devalued, and they simply can't pretend anymore.
Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.
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Personally, I have no problem with 3 and 4. We’ll have to agree to disagree on the matter of food safety and child labor. As to 8, I’ve seen it used as many times to protect children from abuse as abused. I’ll settle for a half-full glass. As to Quote:
I don’t think that’s the tradeoff of “tyranny”, I think that’s a trade-off every society has to choose for itself. Freedom ain’t so hot, either, without some of those protections, and those protections, whether effective or implemented correctly, were put in place for a reason.
The question of tyranny always comes down to a freedom vs. security/cleanliness/order trade-off
As to #5, enforcement of bicycling without a nelmet around here at least is minimal, if at all. And I of all people resented the HELL out of motorcycle helmets being required, but on the whole I'd rather that and pay less for people who end up in emergency rooms as a result. WE pay for those who can't when it comes to health care, and I'm not in favor of paying for anyone else's stupidity when it comes to motorcycle accidents. My own, yeah, I'd take responsibility for it, but it doesn't work that way.
Obviously 6 and 7 are unpleasant, and needless in some ways. But I would guess our increasingly-more-violent society contributes to the need for cops in schools, and that’s something we haven’t dealt with...yet, or well. The travel thing is just plain stupid, and IS a case of perception of security over common sense.
As to 9, it was my impression that if money was confiscated and the person was found innocent, that money was returned. Do you have facts to the contrary?
I’d be interested in learning how Peru gets by without taxing, could you elucidate further on that, please?
The incarceration thing is a personal bugaboo and I definitely agree with you on that one!
All in all, I'd rather feel SOMEWHAT safe and that there is SOMEWHAT of a safety net in this country than be freer, as you define it.
And once again, the population, culture and size of the two countries aren't comparable in my opinion as to how their respective societies decide to deal with issues.
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off 
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Quote:I agree that was poorly worded. I should say, the "trade-off on the anarchy vs. tyranny continuum...."
Originally posted by Niki2:
I don’t think that’s the tradeoff of “tyranny”,...
Quote:See I disagree. I would rather live on the outer planets fighting criminals and dodging reavers than live in the safe and clean Core planets. That's me. I understand why others don't want to live on the outer planets though. Freedom is not pretty or easy.
Freedom ain’t so hot, either, without some of those protections,...
Quote:I didn't state the contrary. My statement was it would take months, even years, with lawyers, to get it back. (But yes, I have heard of at least one innocent person who did not get his forfeiture back. I just don't have the link and story at my fingertips.)
As to 9, it was my impression that if money was confiscated and the person was found innocent, that money was returned. Do you have facts to the contrary?
Quote:I said they DO tax, just a LOT less. They can get by with smaller taxes because the government doesn't do very much. They have a small military (no wars), small police force, small courts, small prisons. They don't do a lot of road work or infrastructure development. They have no retirement, disability safety net, or welfare. How does one get by with a smaller income? You simply spend less.
I’d be interested in learning how Peru gets by without taxing, could you elucidate further on that, please?
Quote:Yes, that's my point. Most Americans agree with you (that is why we have those laws, cause they voted for them somehow, right?).
All in all, I'd rather feel SOMEWHAT safe and that there is SOMEWHAT of a safety net in this country than be freer, as you define it.
My point is also that those laws sound very oppressive and draconian to people who are used to living with much more freedom and much less security.
In other words, America is not the "land of the free"--not anymore. Most Americans don't want to live in the "land of the free." They would rather live in the "land of prevention, security, and morality."
Which is fine. It's the prerogative of the majority to shape the country into whatever they want. The minority just has to suck it or leave.
Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.
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Safety nets exist anyway, with or without government. It when we start to think everyone's being taken care already of that the cracks open up and certain people fall in.
Or when we let some people get away with things that really shouldn't be tolerated. Like polluters, like slavery, like warmongers.
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Niki,
I did find this case.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_v._$124,700
Court:
"We have adopted the commonsense view that bundling and concealment of large amounts of currency, combined with other suspicious circumstances, supports a connection between money and drug trafficking."
Mr. Emilio Gomez Gonzolez never got his money back. The forfeiture was upheld solely based on circumstantial evidence. Apparently, suspicion and circumstantial evidence is all you need to legally rob other people's money now.
Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.
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Quote:
There is where we differ, CTTS. I happen to believe there are MANY options between anarchy and tyranny, and I think the US is neither. We live “cheap”, we don’t spend much and never have, have no credit cards or debt, save gas, etc. But that doesn’t make it possible to live easily in this country.
I would rather live on the outer planets fighting criminals and dodging reavers than live in the safe and clean Core planets.
I’m afraid I still believe there are a lot of things that can’t be compared between Peru and the US, and that it wouldn’t be as easy, even if we wanted it to, for this country to be that way. I also think there are many other countries in the world that are far, far more “draconian” than the US. I nonetheless agree there are a LOT of things wrong, a lot of laws that need revamping or eliminating, and a lot of improvement to be made.
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off
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Quote:That is what continuum means. Anarchy on one end, tyranny on the other, and most everything is in between.
Originally posted by Niki2:
I happen to believe there are MANY options between anarchy and tyranny, and I think the US is neither.
There are no anarchistic countries, so obviously most countries on earth (which are not totalitarian) are somewhere in between.
From my point of view, Peru is quite a bit closer to the freedom end than is the USA.
Now you're saying the USA COULDN'T be like Peru even if it wanted to. I vehemently disagree. The USA doesn't WANT to be like Peru, that I believe. But any assertion that we are forced by our culture and population demographics to live the way we live...that feels like not taking responsibility for our choices.
Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.
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Quote:
Hello,
It is perhaps an irony that one of the things I worry about when I think of visiting England is that I might get attacked. I understand that violent crime occurs there on a comperable level to many parts of the U.S. My understanding of the law system there is that, when confronted with violent crime, the only certain legal recourse is to comply with your attacker and then call the police afterwards. I have heard that violent resistance, and particularly armed resistance (even if only with a handy bludgeoning object) can carry serious legal consequences. Moreso than in the U.S.
I do not know if these things I have heard about England is true, but the thought of it frightens me.
On the other hand, the citizens of all nations have the right to make whatever society they enjoy. It's up to me to decide if visiting is worth the risk.
--Anthony
Hey, I remembered this from before but didn't have time to reply at the time. I think foreign countries probably seem scarier from far off, with distant news reports etc., than in reality. That's probably true for us non US residents as well.
Regarding self defence in the UK, you may find this article useful, 'Self Defence and The Law' in the UK:
"Public Perception of Self-Defence
There has been confusion about what is permitted under the law when an individual is acting in self-defence. Some have even suggested that the law gives more protection to criminals than to honest citizens acting to protect themselves, their family and their homes. There is a belief that citizens in the USA are in a much stronger position as far as the law on self-defence is concerned.
However, although not enshrined in statute, the law in this country is very clear:
an individual is entitled to protect themselves or others;
they may inflict violence and/or use weapons to do so;
the level of violence may include killing the assailant; and,
an individual may even act pre-emptively and still be found to have acted in self-defence."
http://www.protectingyourself.co.uk/self-defence-law.html
It's not personal. It's just war.
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Something in reference to THIS original post....
Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
You see, this is why you'd never make it as a criminal, Anthony - your brain just ain't wired that way.
You wanna off someone, here's how ya do it.
First thing ya do, get dressed, jeans, sweater, flannel shirt, cap, like every damn body else around here, only you put on surgical gloves and then knit gloves over em so you're covered for prints without bein really obvious about it and all.
Then you go down to the airport and rent a car, something ridiculously anonymous, go ahead and card it, don't matter none - drive it down to the red light district and put it in one of them parking garages nearby, take yourself a walk down to the corner, and when the local pushers make their approach, get them to hook you up with a gat, they'll be more than glad to sell you a nine real cheap, no doubt stolen and maybe with a body or two already on it, this is what you WANT but go on and play it cool... I'd say get em to throw in some bullets but even the dumbest punk around here isn't gonna hand you ammo for it and stand the risk of being robbed with the piece he just sold you, so slip up the street a bit and buy a box of crummy ass nine-mil and some smokes from one of the bodegas and pay cash, ain't no one even gonna notice.
Then you find somewhere discreet to load it, and hump it or hop a bus to your target, depending on how far.
You spot em out, follow em, get em somewhere relatively discreet, and storm rush, get in close and fill them with lead, give em six, seven, real quick, point blank, all in the torso, no fancy shit - you put ENOUGH lead in someone from that range, they're gone no matter what, then you roll em up, watch-wallet-rings-cellphone (you DROP the cellphone on the way off though, like you fumbled it) and get the hell gone.
Won't nobody come lookin, a salvo like that, the locals might call it in, but sure as shit they're not stickin their heads up or coming to investigate any time soon.
So you hump it or lump it back to the red light district and pick up your car from the garage, and on your way out, you cut through one of them dark alleys and pitch the piece and the loot out the window, don't even slow down, them skells will be on it before it hits the ground, and whichever one bags the piece will wind up with the rest, sure enough.
You drop off the rental, go home, take a shower, do a little laundry, no worries.
Now, damn good chance, almost a certainty, this'll wind up pitched in the "drug related" file and forgotten, oh-what-a-tragedy, hand me another double-glazed, eh ?
Rare, outside chance, someone rolls the skell when he tries to fence the loot, and you really think the cops are gonna buy whatever bullshit story about where he got the stuff ? oh hell no.
And being a skell, prolly with priors and holding a hot piece, they're gonna beat a confession out of him quick enough, and maybe close off a couple cases on it, for them it's win-win.
For you too, cause that's the end of the story right there, innit now ?
Now, one in a million chance, your target was high profile enough to warrant actual investigation, AND the investigator is some hot-shit sherlock type, at BEST all they'll get from anyone is that airport rental sticker, and the first thing hot-shot boy is gonna think is professional hit, at which point he goes off barking up the wrong tree never to be seen again.
And in the one in a billion chance that someone, somewhere, got the plate, and they ask YOU about it, you *already* got a flawless alibi.
"Look man, I was gettin a blowjob and didn't want my wife/girlfriend catchin wise, ok ?
So what'd she look like ?
Fuck man, I wasn't lookin at her FACE...
Come on, give us something!
Screw you, get my lawyer!"
Even if they don't dump it then, they'll wind up chasing their own damn tails lookin for that hooker, as the case gets colder and colder, and no way could they coach one well enough to slip it past even the dumbest of judges, so they got nothin, jack diddly shit.
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