REAL world event discussions

DREAMTROVE

Monday, November 30, 2009 2:20 AM

Mike,

I actually agree with you. I think I said the solution to Iraq was a 50mm one.

I was just arguing that the carpet bomber was effective, and often won the conflict. Check US vs. Japan. We won, not because we were morally superior, but more evil. I think that is a problem we *do* actually need to address.

An evolution away from "more death" towards a new kind of engagement that would replace total destruction as an effective means...

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FREMDFIRMA

Monday, November 30, 2009 3:47 AM

Convert their followers, at least enough to bog them down in an internal brawl which you make sure winds up with your people on top and deposing their leader, then co-opt the remaining forces into your own - simple, cheap, effective.

Only problem is our intel goons are both no good at it, and beholden to the mil-industry complex and political factions that actually WANT a bloody crusade, for a multitude of reasons, just like Johnson prolonging vietnam when he knew it was lost as a way to clean the "undesirables" out of "his" society by getting them killed over there.

But just because our supposed professionals are so damned bad at it - don't mean everyone is.

-Frem

There always has to be a price.

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KWICKO

Monday, November 30, 2009 3:53 AM

Frem, the only real issue I have with the Johnson analogy is that while he was "cleaning out the undesirables", he was also allowing the alphabet goons to bring in heroin from the area to distribute onto American streets, thereby creating even more "undesirables" - so if he WAS planning on using the war to clear out the scum, then he was also at the same time feeding the meat-grinder by creating addicts who could then be sent into it.

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FREMDFIRMA

Monday, November 30, 2009 4:42 AM

There's that, yeah - funny how they're own stupid plans are so short sighted they work at cross purposes, ain't it ?

Another note:

I was thinkin about free speech, and trying to ponder an example, any example, that might incline me to hypocrisy about the idea, just for a reference, you know ?

And I did come up with one.

Those friggin salvation army santas and their hellspawned, nerve racking bells, I completely HATE that, consider it so irritating it borders on auditory terrorism/extortion.

But I grit my teeth, suck it up, and go on, NOT because of my fervor for free speech, but because it seems to make other people happy, and trying to silence them (which you likely COULD manage, given that they're often operating on private property) would take that happiness from those people.

That's what Tolerance really is, folk - putting up with things you'd rather not because you wish other people to be happy.

I figure there's a lesson in there somewhere, other than throttling them with a bell cord would probably upset people.

-Frem

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PIRATENEWS

Monday, November 30, 2009 10:30 PM

Haken can just shut down this entire forum, like Alex Jones closed down the PrisonPlanet.com forum and Infowars.com comments today. Some caller to the radio show complained about something, so AJ just shut it down immediately.

http://forum.prisonplanet.com

That's free speech for ya. I'm already banned on that forum last month, for posting links to this forum regarding V.

Infowars.net email was shut down last week by Rovin net for apparently intentional non-payment by Infowars, with millions of emails lost without warning...

Quote:

---

Twenty-Five Ways To Suppress Truth: The Rules of Disinformation

Includes The 8 Traits of A Disinformationalist

by H. Michael Sweeney
www.MKZine.com
Spring/Summer 2003

5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary 'attack the messenger' ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as 'kooks', 'right-wing', 'liberal', 'left-wing', 'terrorists', 'conspiracy buffs', 'radicals', 'militia', 'racists', 'religious fanatics', 'sexual deviates', and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.

6. Hit and Run. In any public forum, make a brief attack of your opponent or the opponent position and then scamper off before an answer can be fielded, or simply ignore any answer. This works extremely well in Internet and letters-to-the-editor environments where a steady stream of new identities can be called upon without having to explain criticism, reasoning -- simply make an accusation or other attack, never discussing issues, and never answering any subsequent response, for that would dignify the opponent's viewpoint.

9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues except with denials they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect.

17. Change the subject. Usually in connection with one of the other ploys listed here, find a way to side-track the discussion with abrasive or controversial comments in hopes of turning attention to a new, more manageable topic. This works especially well with companions who can 'argue' with you over the new topic and polarize the discussion arena in order to avoid discussing more key issues.

18. Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents. If you can't do anything else, chide and taunt your opponents and draw them into emotional responses which will tend to make them look foolish and overly motivated, and generally render their material somewhat less coherent. Not only will you avoid discussing the issues in the first instance, but even if their emotional response addresses the issue, you can further avoid the issues by then focusing on how 'sensitive they are to criticism.'

www.whale.to/m/disin.html
www.911review.org/Wiki/RulesOfDisinformation.shtml
www.whale.to/b/sweeney.html

Examples & response:
www.proparanoid.net/truth.htm

Quote:

---

Military report: secretly recruit or hire trolls, er, bloggers

Noah Shachtman at Danger Room finds a 2006 report written for U.S. Special Operations Command that suggests ways the military should deal with the blogosphere. One suggestion is for the military to hire bloggers to “pass the U.S. message“:

Information strategists can consider clandestinely recruiting or hiring prominent bloggers or other persons of prominence…to pass the U.S. message. … On the other hand, such operations can have a blowback effect, as witnessed by the public reaction following revelations that the U.S. military had paid journalists to publish stories in the Iraqi press under their own names. People do not like to be deceived, and the price of being exposed is lost credibility and trust.

An alternative strategy is to “make” a blog and blogger. The process of boosting the blog to a position of influence could take some time, however, and depending on the p

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