REAL world event discussions
POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 2, 2009 00:43
VIEWED: 6855
PAGE 5 of 10
RUE: I'm with George Carlin on this one. There ARE no "rights"... at least not "god-given", "natural" or "inalienable". They're the flip side of "obligations".
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"Trust me, Anthony - incorporating the ability to blacklist anyone who disagrees with you would kill the value of this forum pretty quick."
Hello,
I don't think so, Frem. If people on this forum weren't open to disagreement, they'd move to a forum populated exclusively by people who agreed with them. Such places do exist, for any community of like-minded souls.
I find that people on this forum are generally open to having a good discussion and even a civil argument on a variety of issues. In fact, most people here actually look forward to such things.
What they don't like is loony tunes behavior or conversation that is all expletives and no content.
Moreover, anyone who does want nothing more than unopposed drum banging would be happily isolated in their own little universe... which is where they live anyhow.
Programmable filters are the epitome of something rarely discussed. Free speech is often brought up. The freedom to choose who to listen to isn't. In the past, the best we can do is put ear plugs on or play a song in our walkman. But the world of modern technology now lets us fast forward through commercials, and even pre-select the sort of material we want to watch later on.
That's Freedom, baby, and no Anarchist is gonna talk me out of it being a good thing. ;-)
(That was a bit of a humorous irony, since I assume anarchists are actually in favor of more choice, and less of being a forced audience.)
People often discuss the wonderful things Piratenews does in bringing things to the attention of people here. What they fail to realize is that in the absence of Piratenews, other more reasonable people would be talking about tasering kids and etc. It was on my list of things to investigate already when Piratenews posted it here. I mean, the bloody thing was on CNN.
Not to mention that Piratenews is such an effective Man In Black that anything he posts is almost instantly dismissed by the vast majority. Which is a disservice to the limited amount of valid news he does bring here.
If I could filter here, I could happily read the same information he posts, but instead posted by someone reasonable in a new thread, sans Nazis or Jews or any of his usual nonsense.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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"I cannot punch you in the face and claim it is my 'free expression' of what I think of you."
Hello,
I don't think face punching is a remotely valid allegory to free speech.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Well, people have made all sorts of links between 'free speech' (one presumes actual verbal speech) and non-verbal 'freedom of expression' like, say, flag burning, visual art, letters and other non-press written text etc.
I'm just trying to reiterate a point - there is a line that was drawn, is drawn, and will always be drawn when it comes to free speech. Our free speech is to some extent an oxymoron - we have permitted free speech. And then there is speech which is not.
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Silence is consent.
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Hello,
Generally that line has been drawn at speech which incites immediate verifiable harm to other human beings or their property. That's a narrow focus of limited behavior.
The exception has lamentably sometimes involved nudity, which I don't agree with. In other countries, Free Speech has been abridged so horribly that merely advocating a certain belief system is not permitted. That is just horrible.
And of course Free Speech guarantees only protect you in areas controlled by the government. They will do little to protect you at my dining room table, where insulting my wife will find you expelled from the premises.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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"Generally that line has been drawn at speech which incites immediate verifiable harm to other human beings or their property. That's a narrow focus of limited behavior."
Well, there is also slander and libel. There is criticizing a company or product (beef). There is discussing information which a company claims is proprietary (it doesn't have to be). There is the NSA monitoring phone calls with context-sensitive software. (WHAT ??! They're not keeping you from saying anything, are they ?) There is criticizing your boss - even on-line, even if not by name. Even if it's true.
There are so MANY restrictions on free speech, large and small. And they go far beyond the 'immediate verifiable harm' condition.
Please note I'm not supporting these restrictions. (I feel I have to bold this b/c I guarantee someone - cough frem - will claim I'm a jackboot.) I'm just pointing out that 'free speech' is not what people seem to think it is. And I'm hoping for a little bit more accuracy in the arguments.
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Silence is consent.
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Sig
John may have had mental health issues due to Gulf War syndrome in the past, but he is far from the craziest among us.
Moloch *does* exist, and that's important. If you take the position of "God doesn't exist" than you are left with a terrible conundrum trying to explain the existence of religion.
Unless you're going to argue that Judaism doesn't exist.
Gods exist because they have believers. People believe in Moloch. John believes in Moloch. Whether or not there are people who believe in Moloch and choose to follow him is up to debate. I suspect there probably are, but that their power, influence and numbers are exaggerated by judeo-christians (to differentiate from strict new-testament or 1st c. style christians, to whom Moloch/Molech is not an issue.)
But banning users and having a mod amounts to the same thing: A limit on free speech. I vote against it. I'm in the overwhelming majority here.
Nik,
I concur with Frem above, not much else to say.
Kathy,
This is not about law or the constitution. The forum has its own rules. I had a long discussion with Haken over this very point and he made it very clear that unless a user was a liability to the site, a legal or financial liability, or otherwise costing a large number of users, then there were no limits on speech. He made it quite clear that nothing posted by Pirate News or River6213 in his opinion was outside of the spectrum of the Forum TOS. And he had reviewed posts before making that decision, and so he saw everything we saw, and said that said users were perfectly in their rights, etc.
Since this is Haken's page, and he made the point perfectly clear, I felt there was nothing more to discuss. I get flack for defending above mentioned users, but I am sticking to my guns.
Besides...
Why are we still talking about what's already been decided?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Gotta take issue, here, Pizmo.
Some of those, despite his ludicrous titles, were actually quite worthy of discussion, particular the cop tasering that kid, and the TSA being forced to back off - sometimes folk around here are a little too quick to dismiss the message cause of the messenger.
Frem - I hear you but as you suggest, I'm not going to wade through his posts to get to any so called *facts* since in my experience he doesn't really bring any. I wouldn't trust his *facts* anyway - would you?
True, he uses current events to construct his threads, but so do spammers.
47 posts into the thread, lots of people have weighed in with some good insights. A good discussion on Freedoms and Rules and Banning but nothing from Pirate News.
I'd kind of like to hear from him instead of us all talking about him in third person.
How about it John Lee/Pirate News - how's this sittin' with you? You have an equal share here - no one wants to talk for you.
Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com
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Quote:
That was a bit of a humorous irony, since I assume anarchists are actually in favor of more choice, and less of being a forced audience.
Oh, I'm pretty sure Frem is the last person anyone would like to try to force an audience with.
Which is partially why the whole forced audience thing is a question here. The person PN should MOST bother, if PN is what you say, that SHOULD be Frem. That it doesn't bother him is significant.
Perhaps we all have very different definitions of "forced."
The guy yelling on the streetcorner (PN) is creating excessive noise pollution that you might catch an earful of, but is also relatively easy to ignore... even without headphones. If there's a guy yelling on EVERY street corner, I grant you it can be tougher, but still ignorable.
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Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
47 posts into the thread, lots of people have weighed in with some good insights. A good discussion on Freedoms and Rules and Banning but nothing from Pirate News.
I'd kind of like to hear from him instead of us all talking about him in third person.
How about it John Lee/Pirate News - how's this sittin' with you? You have an equal share here - no one wants to talk for you.
You failed to read my previous post on this thread:
Quote:Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
John Lee: It would be nice if you limited your posts to real events, not paranoid delusions. Not that I expect you to- I'm sure the stuff in your head seems very real to you- but the first qualifier to this subforum starts with the word "real".
No response expected.
"Space aliens 'already exist on earth', Bulgarian govt has diplomatic relations"
www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=40971
You do comprehend that article is verbatim from the elitist Daily Telegraph newspaper, located in London England?
File your complaint with them:
www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/about-us/3519232/Editorial.html
Everything I post is Real World History, which of course is insane history, perped by insane people who want to be our dictators. All psychiatrists and courts define insanity as denial.
Quote:
"A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, no question about it."
—George Bush Jr
youtube.com/watch?v=A09Ha5M82us
"I don't give a goddamn! I'm the President and the Commander-in-Chief. Do it my way! Stop throwing the Constitution in my face!. It's just a goddamned piece of paper!"
—George Bush Jr, Capital Hill Blue, Bush on the Constitution: 'It's just a goddamned piece of paper, December 5, 2005
www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7779.shtml
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on."
-George W Bush, Gridiron Dinner, March 2001
"If the people knew what we had done, they would chase us down the street and lynch us.”
—President George H. W. Bush Sr Knight of the British Empire, conversation with US Army Intelligence agent and White House press corps Sarah McClendon, December 1992
The Operatives on this board and the internet are doing everything they can to wage Weapons of Mass Distration this week, to enable Hussein Obama Soetoro to overthrow USA once and for all at the Nazi Hopenhagen United Nations Corp Global Warming Tax Scam CONference this next week. This illegal "treaty" will ban 85% of all jobs, genocide 85% of the population, and double taxes on the survivors. THIS IS WAR.
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=40913
BTW "moderator" is code name for police Operative, and is the #1 tool for censorship of the internet by the govt. The mission for mods is to kill forums, which are kicking the a$$ets of the corporate media.
Obama meets his Jewish brother who lives in Communist China with his Chinese wife, says their father was a wife-beating alcoholic bigamist
/ www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/11/18/obama.half.brother/index.html
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/11/04/obama.half.brother/index.ht
ml
"Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
-Famous Dead Guy
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