Loss of Faith

POSTED BY: dreamtrove
UPDATED: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 14:39
VIEWED: 4193
PAGE 1 of 1

DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 8:23 PM

Check this out.

Pepsi-Cola hits the spot:

While, sure, the yin yang pepsi is very strangely similar to the then new flag of "South Korea"

It was roughly contemporary with the logo change. I think the waves of coke were all red, and Pepsi wanted to be red white and blue, I'm not sure there's more to it than that. The Korean flag was traditionally red white and blue, so I'm not sure that's american imperialism.

But it's a new commie age, and Coca-cola is a big hit, ever since they changed the intonation to happy smile mouth drink from bite the wax tadpole. But looked at more seriously, Coke is all red, and thus, commie-friendly, and yes, the commies are this simple minded. Mao had stoplights reversed and people tear up grass because it was green.

The yin yang as the symbol of my faith also represents ideals upheld by it, such as laissez faire and individualism, which contrast sharply with the commie agenda. They had it. So. To competee in the new market, pepsi has gone commie:

Now the new image retains the American flavor, but has a kind of red-dominance. It's also eerily resembling someone else:

Now, here's the part that I can say I don't want Pepsi as my banner carrier anymore. Pepsi Co. decided to become a major corporate sponsor of the council on foreign relations, globalist "alliance" folks, sadly, one of whom is Obama:

A lot of CFR newbies don't get what this group is really about. Aaron Russo made that point quite clear in America:Freedom to Fascism, and John Edwards made his own statement when he very publicly quit saying something about "these guys are betraying America." Well, that was it for the Edwards campaign. IMHO, if you're not banging a hooker somewhere, they don't even let you run. They sink you with it when they don't like you anymore. They don't like being called traitors.

But the CFR is a bunch of traitors, and so good riddance and here's to hoping Obama sees through this globalism thing, for what it really is: Roadmap to world domination, end to individual freedom and national sovereignty.

Okay, maybe this is a little Pirate Newsy, but I think there's something commie in the pepsi logo change. I'm not sure if this has anything to do with Obama, except that if they're not cooperating, they're hijacking the hope:

Just had me thinking, is all

CITIZEN

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 8:32 PM

EDIT:
Actually, what are you talking about?

The Yin Yang is the symoblism of opposite forces in balance, the forces of Yin and the forces of Yang. What does that have to do with Individualism and laissez faire. If you wanted to say Collectivism and Individualism were encompassed by Yin Yang, then I'd see the argument, since they're opposing and opposite philosophies (though Yin Yang isn't short hand for opposites, so not exactly), but not one or the other.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 8:36 PM

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 8:38 PM

No, the North Korean Flag would be this:

When I said "Korea" vis a vis American Imperialism, I meant "South Korea". I'll edit to clarify.

CITIZEN

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 8:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
No, the North Korean Flag would be this:

When I said "Korea" vis a vis American Imperialism, I meant "South Korea". I'll edit to clarify.

Yeah, I re-read. But your point is really mixed up and rambling. It's pretty hard to follow is all.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 8:58 PM

Citizen.
In three years you missed that I was a Taoist.

The symbol is the symbol of taoism, yin/yang are complimentary, not opposites, but they are symbolic of a belief system that the Chinese Communists hate, because it leads to these conclusions. If you want to go digging you can find long rantings by the commies on this subject. The official position of the chinese govt. is that Taoism and its symbol, the yin-yang are representative of individualism and laissez-faire, and hence counter revolutionary, which supports collectivism and controlled socio-economic structure.

This goes far further than this. There's a book I haven't read yet "Manufacturing Confucianism" about how the Communist govt. in its opposition to Taoist principles has not only drawn solely from the Confucian side, but has in fact edited and editorialized, even invented, Chinese historical data and historical culture and fiction. Confucius represents the opposing point of view, and lends itself much more to collectivism and controlled social dynamics, and has been used by the Communists to try to make the case that Communism is the natural way of traditional Chinese culture.

While I don't deny that Confucius is a part of Chinese culture by any means, he/it is not the entirety of Chinese Culture. This Communist world view leads to creations such as Hero, which, while fun to watch, are propaganda representing a very distorted view of Chinese history. Which is not to say that the west hasn't and doesn't do the same, it does. Christianity is always creeping into everything in Europe, even things that way predate Christianization. Roman and Middle Eastern, and indeed modern western ideas are often imposed on European history for no reason other than either ignorance or propaganda. Only point being, cutting the commies some slack for doing a hatchet job on their history, because they aren't the only ones. But still...

One of the things I find fascinating in this forum is how different people can become firefly fans for such vastly different reasons.

CITIZEN

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 9:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Citizen.
In three years you missed that I was a Taoist.

No, I know you've said many times that you are a Taoist, and I have no reason to disbelieve you.
Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
The symbol is the symbol of taoism, yin/yang are complimentary, not opposites, but they are symbolic of a belief system that the Chinese Communists hate, because it leads to these conclusions.

Not exactly, Yin and Yang are opposite and complimentary forces, Light and Dark, Hot and Cold, Wet and Dry. The Chinese Communist Party hates anything they can't control, that's pretty much any religion, there's nothing special about Taoism in that regard.
Quote:
If you want to go digging you can find long rantings by the commies on this subject. The official position of the chinese govt. is that Taoism and its symbol, the yin-yang are representative of individualism and laissez-faire, and hence counter revolutionary, which supports collectivism and controlled socio-economic structure.

Which is hardly conclusive. Chinese Communist party: you're either with them, or against them. Everything against them gets lumped in together. The rant of some Communist party member is hardly a winning argument.
Quote:
This goes far further than this. There's a book I haven't read yet "Manufacturing Confucianism" about how the Communist govt. in its opposition to Taoist principles has not only drawn solely from the Confucian side, but has in fact edited and editorialized, even invented, Chinese historical data and historical culture and fiction. Confucius represents the opposing point of view, and lends itself much more to collectivism and controlled social dynamics, and has been used by the Communists to try to make the case that Communism is the natural way of traditional Chinese culture.

Yeah, but not because they 'hate' Taoism. Confucianism was the basis for the Chinese Imperial system for millennia, it's the basis for every Chinese leaders legitimacy from the Three Kingdoms to the Communist Revolution, it's so interwoven into Chinese culture there is no way the Communist party could keep control without some nod in it's direction. Beyond that portraying Confucianism as "complimentary to communism" is just buying into the propaganda of the Chinese Communist party.
Quote:

While I don't deny that Confucius is a part of Chinese culture by any means, he/it is not the entirety of Chinese Culture.

Sure, in the same way that the American government, constitution and bill of rights aren't the Entirety of American Culture. Pretty massive part though.
Quote:

This Communist world view leads to creations such as Hero, which, while fun to watch, are propaganda representing a very distorted view of Chinese history.

You seem to be drawing a progression that doesn't follow?

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 9:30 PM

Oh dear. Citizen is posting again. This is never good.

Btw, if I were this completely ignorant about a subject, I would keep quiet. An excess of opinion does not make it fact.

Oh, screw it, bring back Whozit and the bagel.

DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 9:30 PM

Ack! The dreaded triple post!

DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 9:30 PM

I'm a third of a triple post. I feel like a fifth wheel. If you want a response, citizen, actually, I think you're pretty close to 100% wrong on all of the above. Considering that your one of, if not the, youngest person on the board, you shouldn't count this a surprise. Learn some humility, stick your ego in the backpack, and don't try to provoke me to argue, honestly, I learned some time ago that it's not worth my time.

If you really want, I can chime in on the N. Irish issue. Hey, I might even agree with Finn. Where ever he went. Oh yeah, he was sick of wasting his time as well.

CITIZEN

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 9:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Oh dear. Citizen is posting again. This is never good.

Btw, if I were this completely ignorant about a subject, I would keep quiet. An excess of opinion does not make it fact.

Oh, screw it, bring back Whozit and the bagel.

I was perfectly polite too you, the fact you feel compelled to insult me rather than make an argument, proves who is ignorant.

Quite clearly you are THIS completely ignorant about this subject, and evidently you didn't keep quiet. I suggest you follow your own advice...

Just because you've read the ten page booklet, "how to become a Taoist and feel superior on the internet" doesn't make you an eminent authority you know ;).

It really is not my fault that you can't string together a logical argument. I suggest you take responsibility for your own actions for once.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

CITIZEN

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 9:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I'm a third of a triple post. I feel like a fifth wheel. If you want a response, citizen, actually, I think you're pretty close to 100% wrong on all of the above. Considering that your one of, if not the, youngest person on the board, you shouldn't count this a surprise. Learn some humility, stick your ego in the backpack, and don't try to provoke me to argue, honestly, I learned some time ago that it's not worth my time.

Ah the old "I'm older than you" fallacy. The true last stop of the ego maniac with no real argument. Sure blame me for your behaviour. The first person who got personal and insulting is pretty self evident, you just make yourself look bad by bitching on about it.

Quote:

If you really want, I can chime in on the N. Irish issue. Hey, I might even agree with Finn. Where ever he went. Oh yeah, he was sick of wasting his time as well.

Sure, why not, yet another subject you know nothing about.

I'll tell you what, I'll leave your obviously mature self to your childish tempertantrum because someone dared to question another one of your drug abuse induced conspiracy theories

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 9:53 PM

Your ignorance is surpassed only by your arrogance. Go bother someone else.

CITIZEN

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 9:58 PM

KEPT FOR PROSPERITY:

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Citizen,

You are the singularly most hostile, and possibly the dumbest person I have ever had the displeasure of encountering. You want to bait me into debating you so you can go on another tirade. I fell for this before, and I made it very clear to you then that I would not do so again. I have no interest in debating you in this or any subject. You're a self righteous pompous ass, and a moron. I have to say I don't think you've posted a single thing based in fact, or denoting any level of understanding of anything in three years. You are simply a waste of my time. Pull your head out of your own ass and go learn something, or argue with someone else, just don't expect a response from me on other than this one.

No DT. I was perfectly polite to you. I disagreed with some stuff you said. You threw a tempertantrum. I responded in the same way. Go pull your head out of your own arse, and learn something yourself for a change. Because, whether you're capable of looking back at what happened objectively or not, I don't really care, but you've just described yourself, not me. I was perfectly prepared to discuss the point with you, you got hostile because I dared not to agree with you, you dreamtrove, the man the Earth revolves around, the man who has nothing to learn. The man how evidently finds someone not agreeing with him "hostile and insulting".

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:05 PM

I made it clear that I have no interest in communicating with you some time ago. I will not be baited into one of your endless battles.

Kept for posterity:

Quote:

KEPT FOR PROSPERITY:

No DT. I was perfectly polite to you.

No, you just go back and edit your old posts.

CITIZEN

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I made it clear that I have no interest in communicating with you some time ago. I will not be baited into one of your endless battles.

Kept for posterity:
Quote:

KEPT FOR PROSPERITY:

No DT. I was perfectly polite to you.

No, you just go back and edit your old posts.

I never edited my old posts dreamtrove, as well you know. Unless your in the grip of some delusion whereby you read stuff that wasn't there. Really I have no problem with you not talking to me further if your idea of communicating is too insult people then lie about what they said later. It's your depths of immorality, not to mention immaturity at fault, not me. If that's how you conduct yourself, maybe the name DreamTroll really would suit you better.

EDIT:
The only edit I made was too remove "you seem to be mistaking the South Korean flag, for the North Korean flag" in my initial post. I removed it, as I said, because I re-read your post and realised that's not what you were doing. I also clearly outlined it as an edit. As I have here. If you feel the need to try to make people believe that your petty childish statements are because of some slight I edited out, go right ahead.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:10 PM

If I ignore it, does it go away?

CITIZEN

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
If I ignore it, does it go away?

Exactly what I was thinking, this is the last post I will be making to you Dreamtroll.

Oh, and if you're too much of a coward to send a PM I can reply too, just don't bother in future, kay? Thanks:

Quote:
Citizen

I see you're studying martial arts. Good for you. Go do that, and stop feigning knowledge.

Oh, and btw, this isn't a live email address, and so don't bother to PM me.

Stop trolling the forum, and go grow some tomatoes, great mind that you are.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

CITIZEN

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:18 PM

Quote:

Your art of lying to make it look like someone else is lying, or ignorant, is truly developed. So you do have a skill.

I get this game. It's to get people to debate you endlessly. Nice.

Honestly, I don't think I've ever seen you post anything that was true. I communicate with a lot of people on this board, including ones who have very serious issues.

I don't know what your issue is, and I don't want to know. It has something to do with wanting attention and wanting to have the last word so you can always paint an opponent as looking bad.

Please try to pull your head out of your own ass to see that no one cares.

Now kindly f^&k off.

You're the one harrassing me through PMs I can't reply too. I'm not lying, you are. The only game here is that of a troll who wants to harass people. Stop PMing me.

EDIT:
My god, you actually, really are, honestly and truly, completely delusional.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:29 PM

I was just trying to tell you off without doing it publicly. I would gladly not PM you. I was trying to be civil and avoid a flame war.

This tactic of yours is not new. I knew you would come after me as soon as you reappeared. Please go away.

STORYMARK

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:43 PM

Amusing thread.

Don't know all the history here, but DT, you did pretty much fly off the handle as a simple, politely worded post.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

CHRISISALL

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Amusing thread.

Don't know all the history here

Mortal enemies, leave it at that.

The ringside Chrisisall

RUE

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:13 PM

Citizen

Nice to see you back. Don't be a stranger !

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

RUE

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:13 PM

DT

You did go off the deep end at what was a polite and topical reply.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

STORYMARK

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Amusing thread.

Don't know all the history here
Mortal enemies, leave it at that.

The ringside Chrisisall

Then toss 'em a couple swords, make it interesting.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

CITIZEN

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Citizen

Nice to see you back. Don't be a stranger !

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

Thanks, and you.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:24 PM

The more hostile ones were deleted. I can see where this one falls. Oh well. I was hoping he would leave me alone this time. I had been leaving him alone. Ah well.

CHRISISALL

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Citizen

Nice to see you back. Don't be a stranger !

Meh. I see that guy all the time at Serenitymovie.org

The bla-zay Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:

Thanks, and you.

Can I be the first to donate towards your new oven?

The injoke Chrisisall

CITIZEN

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:33 PM

I'll state it again for prosperity. I didn't delete any insults made to dreamtrove. Whatever he was reacting to, was all in his head. This isn't a case of mortal enemies, this is a case of Dreamtrove needing to take his medication.

Whatever else I maybe or have done, I have never deleted things in order to 'frame' someone before, I haven't done that now, and I don't plan on doing it in the future.

Dreamtrove. You are either lying, or you are a fucking lunatic. I really don't care which.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

CHRISISALL

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
This isn't a case of mortal enemies

Sorry, I was trying to be amusing.

The silly Chrisisall

COLE23

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:41 PM

I only read the fist post,so I'm replying to it.I'm a salesman for Pepsi,and there is nothing communist about the company.Heartless,unoriginal,ripping off,corporate pieces of crap?Yes.Pepsi is trying to get a piece of the Obama pie,nothing more.

DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:43 PM

Actually, I just reread the thread. Even as it remains, Citizen is, as usual, always on the attack.

I could argue with his points such as

Quote:
The rant of some Communist party member is hardly a winning argument.

That some Communist party member ranting happened to be Mao Tse Dong.

But there's no use. This isn't about information, it's about long term animosity stemming from me a long time ago blaming the high casualty rate of WWII on state socialism. It's not really about anything else. I have disagreements with other people on the board, and we tend to either ignore each other, like me and Finn, or ignore our disagreements, like me and Auraptor.

But, I get the message, guys. Loud and clear.

DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:45 PM

Quote:
I only read the fist post,so I'm replying to it.I'm a salesman for Pepsi,and there is nothing communist about the company.Heartless,unoriginal,ripping off,corporate pieces of crap?Yes.Pepsi is trying to get a piece of the Obama pie,nothing more.

I considered this option, hence the posting of the Obama logo. But I also considered that the logo might have attracted ire from the Chinese govt. I was wondering. Thanks for the input.

Seeking for the freedom to post without being trolled is all.

PIZMOBEACH

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:46 PM

Well, at the very least can we all agree that the new Pepsi logo sucks a lot?

CHRISISALL

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Well, at the very least can we all agree that the new Pepsi logo sucks a lot?

Yes.

The agreeable Chrisisall

KWICKO

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Well, at the very least can we all agree that the new Pepsi logo sucks a lot?

Yup.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

YINYANG

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Well, at the very least can we all agree that the new Pepsi logo sucks a lot?

Totally.

CITIZEN

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Actually, I just reread the thread. Even as it remains, Citizen is, as usual, always on the attack.

So did I. As it remains you still need medication.

Quote:

That some Communist party member ranting happened to be Mao Tse Dong.

Yeah, that changes nothing.

Quote:

But there's no use. This isn't about information, it's about long term animosity stemming from me a long time ago blaming the high casualty rate of WWII on state socialism.

Jesus, I don't even remember that. It stems from your struggle with reality, that's what it stems from. You're right though. It's not about information, it's about you not taking your meds.

Quote:
I have disagreements with other people on the board, and we tend to either ignore each other, like me and Finn, or ignore our disagreements, like me and Auraptor.

I don't suppose it's crossed you mind that you're keeping this going and responding every bit as much as I am huh? No, of course not. Dreamtroll taking responsibility for it's own actions? Unheard of!

A true Reaganite.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

PHOENIXROSE

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:20 AM

The new logo, I think it's strange looking. It is indeed an unbalanced and awkward design. Studying to be a graphic designer myself, I have a lot of issues with it.
I do, however, fail to see what anything has to do with communism. Red is a 'power' color. It's been adopted by many, many things. Before CocaCola and communists, it was the British military. It's heat and fire, bright and shiny. It's eye-catching by its very nature, while being easier on the eyes than yellow tends to be. Plenty of products want to be eye-catching, and plenty of products are thus red. Saying a redesign with more red has communist leanings makes about as much sense as saying Valentine's Day has communist leanings. Or Santa Claus. Or Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band. Or myself, having just turned my hair a rather reddish color. It's mostly about standing out, giving something more energy, more interest, more passion, more bang for the buck.
This is all strictly from a design perspective. I'm going to state right now that it's not my intention to attack anyone, I just don't see the connection here to anything but a weird redesign in hopes of drawing more attention. The bottles and cans, it should be noted, are still the trademark Pepsi blue. Mountain Dew, probably their most successful product, has also undergone a redesign, though not nearly as noticeable. It's also maintained its green and red color scheme. (I have never related Mountain Dew to Christmas)
Color is important in the marketing and design world. Clearly, color has power. People will relate colors to different things in their life, be it a sports team or a soft drink or a political agenda. But really, the main goal is to be recognizable, in whatever way you hope to be recognized.

[/sig]

KWICKO

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:29 AM

Quote:
Saying a redesign with more red has communist leanings makes about as much sense as saying Valentine's Day has communist leanings. Or Santa Claus. Or Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band. Or myself, having just turned my hair a rather reddish color. It's mostly about standing out, giving something more energy, more interest, more passion, more bang for the buck.

Indeed. I for one have never considered Ferrari particularly communistic. And sure, Ferrari DO offer their cars in colors other than red, but the collectible models (and that's pretty much ALL of them) always demand a premium if they're red. It's so prevalent that it's become the color identified with the marque.

Also, the vast majority of Corvettes sold are red. I don't imagine too many Communists drive Corvettes. It's about daring, it's saying "Look at ME!" - it DEMANDS to be seen and acknowledged.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

RUE

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:29 AM

I find the new logo vaguely disturbing.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

PIZMOBEACH

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
The new logo, I think it's strange looking. It is indeed an unbalanced and awkward design. Studying to be a graphic designer myself, I have a lot of issues with it.
I do, however, fail to see what anything has to do with communism. Red is a 'power' color. It's been adopted by many, many things. Before CocaCola and communists, it was the British military. It's heat and fire, bright and shiny. It's eye-catching by its very nature, while being easier on the eyes than yellow tends to be. Plenty of products want to be eye-catching, and plenty of products are thus red. Saying a redesign with more red has communist leanings makes about as much sense as saying Valentine's Day has communist leanings. Or Santa Claus. Or Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band. Or myself, having just turned my hair a rather reddish color. It's mostly about standing out, giving something more energy, more interest, more passion, more bang for the buck.
This is all strictly from a design perspective. I'm going to state right now that it's not my intention to attack anyone, I just don't see the connection here to anything but a weird redesign in hopes of drawing more attention. The bottles and cans, it should be noted, are still the trademark Pepsi blue. Mountain Dew, probably their most successful product, has also undergone a redesign, though not nearly as noticeable. It's also maintained its green and red color scheme. (I have never related Mountain Dew to Christmas)
Color is important in the marketing and design world. Clearly, color has power. People will relate colors to different things in their life, be it a sports team or a soft drink or a political agenda. But really, the main goal is to be recognizable, in whatever way you hope to be recognized.

[/sig]

Well said. The same general design principles of simplicity, and easy to read, go with the use of the circle. If you have that simple shape and only those 3 colors chances are you are going to come up with designs that look similar - there's not a lot of room for complexity.
My question about the Pepsi logo: wtf is it? What is it suppose to suggest or imply? I see a sailboat. As you say PR, it is unbalanced and awkward in the same way that AT&T's blue continuos fruit peel logo is - it's not a circle.
Flashback - Remember Lucent's bloody donut?

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:42 AM

Quote:
PHOENIXROSE

The new logo, I think it's strange looking. It is indeed an unbalanced and awkward design. Studying to be a graphic designer myself, I have a lot of issues with it.
I do, however, fail to see what anything has to do with communism. Red is a 'power' color. It's been adopted by many, many things.

You're quite right. Red is adopted by many. The communist govt. is particularly attracted to flattery and symbolism. Many other Chinese cultures have used a lot of red, it's pretty common.

Maoism has its own special fixations and phobias though, and you can watch present day communist china react to them. Take for instance, Tibet. Or the Cantonese language. The use of the term Uygar, or the existance or practice of Uygar animism, or Uygar communities, which should only be referred to by their Manderin name "Xinjiang."

If you followed the olympics, or the Taiwan issue, you saw this sort of obsessive attention to this sort of thing.

Taoism, the Tao te Ching, and all things related were deemed counter-revolutionary, for the reasons I stated, and banned. The ban only lasted a few years because it threatened to lead to a revolution, since there are about a quarter billion Taoists in China.

Now it's just discouraged, and the new pseudo confucianism and fabricated selective culture is state supported, to dissuade the Chinese into thinking this is their only natural way.

Family members, by marriage, were in the revolution, and now live under communism. Two were tortured, one for 20 years. It's an intensely oppressive govt.

Anyway, so the symbol would be offensive to them, and they would react negatively to it. One with red domination is going to find an easier home in China today.

This has nothing to do with red, it has to do with the hangups of the Chinese govt., which are as complicated and touchy as the hangups of Sunni Islam, or a handful of ultra touchy societies.

It's a marketing trick, no doubt about it. I caught the obama-mimicking. Also, the removal of yin yang in favor of the red dominance. I thought with Coke having such a large share of such a large market, there might be communist appeasement in that.

I wasn't looking to start a war.

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:44 AM

Quote:

Well said. The same general design principles of simplicity, and easy to read, go with the use of the circle. If you have that simple shape and only those 3 colors chances are you are going to come up with designs that look similar - there's not a lot of room for complexity.
My question about the Pepsi logo: wtf is it? What is it suppose to suggest or imply? I see a sailboat. As you say PR, it is unbalanced and awkward in the same way that AT&T's blue continuos fruit peel logo is - it's not a circle.
Flashback - Remember Lucent's bloody donut?

A surfable wave, or Obama on a roll.

Possibly a bagel

PHOENIXROSE

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Quote:
PHOENIXROSE

The new logo, I think it's strange looking. It is indeed an unbalanced and awkward design. Studying to be a graphic designer myself, I have a lot of issues with it.
I do, however, fail to see what anything has to do with communism. Red is a 'power' color. It's been adopted by many, many things.

You're quite right. Red is adopted by many. The communist govt. is particularly attracted to flattery and symbolism. Many other Chinese cultures have used a lot of red, it's pretty common.

And was for hundreds of years before the idea of communism even started to speculate about crossing someone's mind is all.

[/sig]

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:50 AM

Mike,

That's not the point. It's not the color Red who is potentially making decisions, it's the govt. of China

Remember the Iraqi reaction to the use of light blue on the flag? They instantly identified it as Israeli imperialism.

It wasn't Light blue that was complaining, and the world remained full of light blue being not jewish, like in Swedish and Finnish flags, and many other things. But the Iraqis took issue with it.

Now imagine if we had built our new govt. in Baghdad in a new building shaped like the Star of David?

I wasn't saying necessarily this was the case, just offering the possibility. I don't think it's that insane. The Chinese govt. has flown off the handle about much smaller things.

KIRKULES

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:

Dreamtrove. You are either lying, or you are a fucking lunatic. I really don't care which.

Why does it have to be "either...or".

CITIZEN

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
Why does it have to be "either...or".

He's adamant that I said things I didn't say, and then deleted them, something I didn't do. He either truly believes what he is saying, in which case he is delusional, or he doesn't, in which case he is saying something he knows is not true, which is lying. I see no other possible options.

Well, I suppose he could be Lying AND a fucking lunatic?

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:04 AM

Oh caveman, you're not helping.

"I know, I feel just sick about it"

KIRKULES

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
Why does it have to be "either...or".

He's adamant that I said things I didn't say, and then deleted them, something I didn't do. He either truly believes what he is saying, in which case he is delusional, or he doesn't, in which case he is saying something he knows is not true, which is lying. I see no other possible options.

Well, I suppose he could be Lying AND a fucking lunatic?

I seems somewhat like sociopathic behavior to me. It's not that he can't tell the difference between the truth and a lie, it's that one is as useful a tool as the other.

CITIZEN

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
I seems somewhat like sociopathic behavior to me. It's not that he can't tell the difference between the truth and a lie, it's that one is as useful a tool as the other.

Has he done the same sort of thing too you?

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

KIRKULES

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
I seems somewhat like sociopathic behavior to me. It's not that he can't tell the difference between the truth and a lie, it's that one is as useful a tool as the other.

Has he done the same sort of thing too you?

No, luckily so far I've just observed it done to others.

FREMDFIRMA

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:26 AM

Yes, the new logo sucks.

And Chris beat me to the throw em a pair of swords idea (tho I was gonna suggest nerfbats cause it'd take longer.)

And they're *both* guilty of very nasty and disproportionate responses to each other, although you did kinda pull the trigger on this one DT.

Doesn't help when you post for no other real reason than to be extremely nasty Cit - and yes damn yer eyes I'm well aware that's a pot calling color on a kettle, but imma call ya on it anyways.

-F

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

YINYANG

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:34 AM

If I may, for a moment?

You know, glancing at the title of this thread, even though I already know what it's about, makes a little part of me go "O no! What happened to Eliza?"

/threadjack

KWICKO

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I find the new logo vaguely disturbing.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

It's the "evil eye" look of it, isn't it? I get that, too.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

FREMDFIRMA

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:59 AM

Yeah, let's go with the threadjack...

I always thought Faith was a far, far more interesting than the pompous, selfish and two dimensional Buffy, myself.

-F

RUE

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 2:25 AM

"It's the "evil eye" look of it, isn't it? I get that, too."

I didn't get quite so far as thinking it was an eye, though ... now that you mention it ...

I was thinking that the asymmetric sagging looked somehow - I don't know - debauched, corrupted, leprous ... I can't quite come up with the word.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

PHOENIXROSE

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 2:43 AM

I far preferred Eliza as an actress. The character could have gotten on my nerves a little, but she played it so well. I was thinking about the body swap episode this week, and how I completely bought that Buffy was in Faith's body, but thought Faith-as-Buffy acted much too over-the-top. Faith was wild, but she was cool, very controlled even when out of control. I really even preferred the Buffy-as-Faith, she seemed to have more dimension. And that's really it, isn't it? The ability of an actress to portray some dimension.

[/sig]

KWICKO

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 2:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"It's the "evil eye" look of it, isn't it? I get that, too."

I didn't get quite so far as thinking it was an eye, though ... now that you mention it ...

I was thinking that the asymmetric sagging looked somehow - I don't know - debauched, corrupted, leprous ... I can't quite come up with the word.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

Unbalanced?

Any way you slice it, though, it loses all balance and symmetry.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

KWICKO

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 2:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Yeah, let's go with the threadjack...

I always thought Faith was a far, far more interesting than the pompous, selfish and two dimensional Buffy, myself.

-F

Yup, because - like Angel - when Faith was good, she was good, but when she was bad, she was GREAT!

And I never really got the whole "tortured" thing from Buffy, but Faith and Angel pulled it off pretty well.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 3:09 AM

Frem

I'm unaware of doing so. If I'm guilty of anything here, it's being unwilling to respond to his counter statements. I disagree with all of them, but the past has led me to believe that every statement I make in contradiction to anything he's posted will generate a new counter-attack. I also confess to not taking him seriously. Considering both of these, I had no interest in an exchange. I was just trying to tell him "Oh, please go away."

He can post his information on his own thread, and we never have to cross paths. The history here is simple: any disagreement has led to an endless "is so" "is not" which IMHO is a total waste of time. I am not interested in it. I'm also not interested in getting trolled, so if someone is going to troll me, I have to give him a good incentive not to.

As for the last, "Citizen is posting, this is never good" is such an obvious snark. If that sets him off then there has to be minimum safe distance between us. God, I don't even know how many users I've said that to on this forum. It's pretty a generic snark, being a buffy paraphrase and all. And much used.

So maybe your right, I pulled the trigger. But the arsenal was just sitting there

PIZMOBEACH

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 3:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"It's the "evil eye" look of it, isn't it? I get that, too."

I didn't get quite so far as thinking it was an eye, though ... now that you mention it ...

I was thinking that the asymmetric sagging looked somehow - I don't know - debauched, corrupted, leprous ... I can't quite come up with the word.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

Ah yes, I think I cracked it... you are surreptitiously watching the guy work on your kitchen drain...

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 3:21 AM

Yinyang

Thanks for the threadjack. Much appreciated. Seriously, not just because this one took a wrong turn, but also because I'm a fan of threadjacks in particular, and chaos in general. But also, threadjacks are necessary. If this had been about Faith, the char, it wouldn't have been RWED. Pepsi changing its logo, that's a real world event. Something happening to Eliza, that would be apocalyptic. Nice icon btw.

Frem

Quote:

I always thought Faith was a far, far more interesting than the pompous, selfish and two dimensional Buffy, myself.

Absolutely. Call be a pancake, but I'm up for being a slayer sandwich. But seriously, Faith is the sort of character who makes a story.

Oh, and Frem, upon reflection, rather than take blame for going nuclear, I take credit.

PR

I liked Sarah as Faith (I'm sorry, language clarification issue, Buffy as Faith, Faith as Buffy, I couldn't figure out which way you meant, but I gather you were praising Eliza's portrayal of Buffy) Anyway, I thought Sarah did an awesome job, as did Eliza. It was a great double ep?

It was awesome. Actually, it was probably the best freaky friday I've seen.

I liked Aimee's mom as an actress I thought she should have recurred.

Faith highlights, her nervousness at being on the wrong side, her pseudo gay thing with buffy, hell, i'll take the whole package.

Five by Five.

YINYANG

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 4:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Yinyang

Thanks for the threadjack. Much appreciated. Seriously, not just because this one took a wrong turn, but also because I'm a fan of threadjacks in particular, and chaos in general.

I really just wanted to use that icon, is all.

And may I state for the record that it's nice to see Citizen over here. Things in RWED are kind of out of whack for me without him, and I had a hard time keeping up at formerly-Gossi's boards.

KWICKO

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 4:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"It's the "evil eye" look of it, isn't it? I get that, too."

I didn't get quite so far as thinking it was an eye, though ... now that you mention it ...

I was thinking that the asymmetric sagging looked somehow - I don't know - debauched, corrupted, leprous ... I can't quite come up with the word.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

Ah yes, I think I cracked it... you are surreptitiously watching the guy work on your kitchen drain...

Dude, that is just SOOOO wrong!

I'll never look at a new Pepsi the same way.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 4:39 AM

I guess I'm not winning any popularity contests. I find the incessant attacks annoying. For me, it was a nice peaceful absence.

I should probably just vacate, this will likely become a war zone now, and I have important things to do.

IMHO, Objectively, I posted what I thought was an interesting topic, and then got attacked by a usual suspect, (a snark or disparaging comment, no problem, but when it fills the thread?)

Anyway, that was followed by a pile on. I thought a couple people were trying to deflect the battle, but naw, guess not. Oh well, a perfect ruin to an otherwise perfect day.

I see the black widow spider that lives at the head of my bed had babies. Well, that's annoying. She could have had them somewhere else. Ah well.

YINYANG

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 5:12 AM

I'm not on Citizen's side against you (or vice versa), though. As as mostly-lurker, I just miss the flavor.

KWICKO

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 5:17 AM

DT: Don't let it get to you, and for damn sure don't let it get you down. I know you're a live and let live kind of guy, but even for the most Tao of us, there are some people we just don't get along with. Ever. Looks like you've found your anti-DT.

If you go, you'll be missed, because while we may not agree on much, you definitely bring a much-needed insight to this forum.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

FREMDFIRMA

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 8:34 AM

We all have our moments...

And I mean that in all three connotations thereof.

-F

CITIZEN

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 2:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Doesn't help when you post for no other real reason than to be extremely nasty Cit - and yes damn yer eyes I'm well aware that's a pot calling color on a kettle, but imma call ya on it anyways.

If by that you mean responding to some unhinged maniacs unsolicited attacks, then yeah. I didn't say anything to the guy, he goes off at me, then blames me for his actions, lies about what I said, then accuses me of editing my post when I did no such thing. How the hell am I supposed to act? I'm not going to let that nut lie and accuse me of things I haven't done so he can get away with acting like a troll. If he can't handle people disagreeing with him, maybe he should leave. God knows he throws a tempertantrum whenever it happens, if all he wants is a captive audiance who never talks back and never questions him (and it's fairly obvious he can't handle anything else), this is really the wrong place for it.

Besides, as far as I can see nothing I've said is nasty, certainly no worse than what I was responding too. At the very least it's descriptive. How else can you describe an insane lying nut than as an insane lying nut?

He's still not stopped I note. But if I respond, he'll whine again about how I started it and he just wants me to leave him alone. He's started it, because as usual his massive ego and tiny intelect couldn't handle being questioned, he found someone not agreeing with him an insult. And if I'm perpetuating it, it's only because I keep responding to his trollish lies and attacks.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 2:39 PM

Thanks guys

Ironically, Citizen and I aren't really all that different in many ways. It's just that we always seem to clash into this spiralling thunderdome, which consumes time and energy. It's probably best that we just ignore each other.

The forum as a whole is like an addiction that's hard to kick. I'm certainly not at my most productive while posting here, so I need to be selective about subjects I post on, and the times of communications I get into.

There's undoubtedly some self serving element in my efforts to organize it, even though those threads have been on the suggestions of others. I'm not taking credit for the ideas, but I like experimentation, especially if it leads to something productive or efficient.

The topic I actually wanted to talk about was pepsi, here. I think that my views on socialism probably spark a lot of ire overall, and probably here. I guess I would say that, just to boil it down to a one liner, it's not a moral or religious objection to the idea, though I think it's kind of alliancy:

I like experimentation, but socialism is an idea that has been tried, with disastrous results.

I'm not up for that debate, people are free to disagree, and I just want to say that as a one liner so people know where I'm coming from. It's not to defend capitalism, or any other ism against it, or anything. I just want to avoid this sort of argument, while being free to hold that position. It's based on a lifetime of evidence gathering, and it's unlikely to change due to more evidence. People hold positions on issues, and we shouldn't be all over them. We should just discuss those on which we're more interested in, and for me, those are things I'm undecided about, or not informed about. The most interesting discussion for me here lately was the one about problems with drug rehab, a topic I was naive on. I didn't really mind the over the second amendment. I was just wrong is all. There were some others that were interesting, and some that are just funny, like kicking around a bagel. Just gnawing over how not to get into it again, because the forum overall is on the edge for me. It's like being here or not is one of the issues that I'm still weighing. The reason to be here is there are interesting intelligent people with insights. The reason not to be here is it consumes to much time, and rarely, but on occasion, gets me down. As an American, yesterday was a great day. Regardless of race or political affiliation. I couldn't care less about getting a democrat in the white house, But, and I may clash in views with others, of all of the "rid of Bush" and getting someone that actually has a brain, and seems very likeable, the high point for me was the bumbling swearing in of Barack Hussein Obama. I know that was because it was a kick in the pants to the "My country right or wrong" islamophobes, many of whom are here. I just had to smile and think, "okay, deal with that one."

Unfortunately, it looks like Hillary will be a secretary again. I really don't like that woman.