Do you believe in God? Bill Maher doesn't.

POSTED BY: OPPYH
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 16:34
VIEWED: 10740
PAGE 1 of 1

OPPYH

Wednesday, October 1, 2008 7:54 AM

OK, so here I go.

I believe in God. and contrary to what many athiests believe(I know there are many on this site alone) it doesn't make me stupid.

I have never lost sleep by reading the bible, in fact I hardly ever read anything in it. But I do believe there is a all mighty being(a creator) of everything. The universe, the way the seasons change, a single blade of grass, how utterly perfect people(and all life forms) are designed. Our earth is perfect for sustaining life with abundant food supplies, and water. It's exactly the right distance from the sun so that people don't fry, or freeze to death. It's so un-random it's scary. Everything has purpose.

Bill Maher's new movie is to try to dispell all religion, and all belief in God. Why? what does he gain? Who's funding his movie?
If your an Athiest, that's fine. It's what you believe. I may think your wrong, but I certainly wouldn't want you to become a christian either. Religion has always been a touchy subject. Why can't the stigma of Christians being "dummys" die? And while were at it, let's also drop the stigma of hostile athiests. Kirk Cameron didn't pay me to write this.

SIMONWHO

Wednesday, October 1, 2008 8:36 AM

The list of things caused by religious conflict is really quite long, from massacres in Rwanda to 9/11 via the Holocaust and the Spanish Inquisition.

If everyone was calm and content like you to live and let live, there wouldn't be a problem. But that's not what happens.

HELL'S KITTEN

Wednesday, October 1, 2008 1:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
Bill Maher's new movie is to try to dispell all religion, and all belief in God. Why? what does he gain? Who's funding his movie?

The most important thing he "gains" by this is discussion. Put something out there to make people think and talk about it. Is that really a horrible thing?

I don't think Bill Maher - or anyone, for that matter - is about "dispell" religion, especially not with a movie. Really, there's nothing he can say that hasn't already been said a million times over. If your faith is intact, what could Hollywood possibly do to you?

SCOUSERATHEART

Wednesday, October 1, 2008 1:53 PM

I don't think Bill Maher "gains" anything.
(Are all discussions about gaining something?? I don't think so.)

I think he is only taking advantage of his right to articulate what he believes - the same right you have just exercised in your post. The major difference is the scope of audience - he has a bigger audience because of his celebrity.

I don't believe in god. I don't believe all people who believe in god are stupid. In fact, I don't hold many beliefs that are based on gross generalizations.

DEADLOCKVICTIM

Wednesday, October 1, 2008 8:48 PM

Maher on the Daily Show last night professed admiration for those people who have found faith.. in whatever they need to have faith in..
He questions the traditional tenants of historical religion.

(as should we all)

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, October 1, 2008 9:01 PM

I heard Maher today on NPR, and he's like, personal beliefs should be personal, it's when tradition and organizations make a business or cult out of it is when he yells about it.
I can reach; I'm Buddhist (modified), yet all my worldly decisions are not based on my faith, I don't try to convert folks, and I certainly wouldn't get in to a fight over it.

I mean, Jesus was cool, and what he said had great meaning, but look at all the 'stuff' that sprouted up around and independent of the man himself...

Noahs Ark? Okay, just don't decide America needs 300 million houseboats 'just in case', Mr. President.

Chrisisall

ECGORDON

Wednesday, October 1, 2008 10:20 PM

From Kevin Smith's Dogma:

Quote:
Rufus: He still digs humanity, but it bothers Him to see the shit that gets carried out in His name - wars, bigotry, televangelism. But especially the factioning of all the religions. He said humanity took a good idea and, like always, built a belief structure on it.
Bethany: Having beliefs isn't good?
Rufus: I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier. Life should malleable and progressive; working from idea to idea permits that. Beliefs anchor you to certain points and limit growth; new ideas can't generate. Life becomes stagnant.

So, do I believe in God? Nope, but I got a few ideas.

PIZMOBEACH

Thursday, October 2, 2008 4:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
I believe in God. and contrary to what many athiests believe (I know there are many on this site alone) it doesn't make me stupid.

I have never lost sleep by reading the bible, in fact I hardly ever read anything in it. But I do believe there is a all mighty being(a creator) of everything. The universe, the way the seasons change, a single blade of grass, how utterly perfect people(and all life forms) are designed. Our earth is perfect for sustaining life with abundant food supplies, and water. It's exactly the right distance from the sun so that people don't fry, or freeze to death. It's so un-random it's scary. Everything has purpose.

Please, wake up - spend some time in a hospital or a nursing home and you will discover that we're full of parts that wear out and break and then we just stop living altogether. Perfectly imperfect really.

Did God create disease? Cancer? Cholera? Tuberculosis? Alzheimer's? So he could watch us be tortued before we die? At least many of us will be able to do some extreme suffering before we die - Thank you God! And those that survive us, their suffering may be even worse. Double thanks Big Guy - u da man!

Season's are nice though, unless you're talking about hurricane season. Katrina? Official Act of God.

"Abundant food supplies?" Africa? Children starving by the thousands?

Any religion worthy of following shouldn't be afraid to answer tough questions or stand up to a comedian's scrutiny. Don't you want to know the truth?

And fwiw I'm not a fan of Bill Maher.

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Thursday, October 2, 2008 4:21 AM

Have you seen his movie? He is not saying that believers are dummy's, nor does he say he does not believe in God. He is simply asking how the people who believe absolutely can.....believe absolutely.

I mean come on, do you ACTUALLY believe that Noah built an ark and got all the animals on it? Do you ACTUALLY believe that the dinosaurs and man resided on earth at the same time? Do you really think that God created the earth in 6 days about 3000 years ago? 6000?

He is simply asking the question. If one is trully faithful and a believer then they should not feel threatened.

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

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“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

WHISPER

Thursday, October 2, 2008 6:18 AM

Here's my question...

Why is it that when a movie comes out that is "anti-religious" is some fashion there is a big outcry, but when a movie comes out obviously pro-christian, no one says boo about it?

ETA: I for one can't wait to see Religulous. I think it looks hilarious and thought-provoking at the same time.

http://whispergraphics.deviantart.com
http://www.myspace.com/vet_techtiff

OUT2THEBLACK

Thursday, October 2, 2008 7:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Whisper:

...I think it looks hilarious and thought-provoking at the same time.

Being that that's your standard , how'd you like EXPELLED ?

http://www.expelledthemovie.com/home.php

Bill Maher , like so many other fictitious characters , does occasionally cause me to laugh...

OUT2THEBLACK

Thursday, October 2, 2008 7:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Have you seen his movie? He is not saying that believers are dummy's, nor does he say he does not believe in God. He is simply asking how the people who believe absolutely can.....believe absolutely.

I mean come on, do you ACTUALLY believe that Noah built an ark and got all the animals on it? Do you ACTUALLY believe that the dinosaurs and man resided on earth at the same time? Do you really think that God created the earth in 6 days about 3000 years ago? 6000?

He is simply asking the question. If one is trully faithful and a believer then they should not feel threatened.

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“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

Who are you lying for , Maher or yourself ?

" We are a nation that is unenlightened because of religion. I do believe that. I think that religion stops people from thinking. I think it justifies crazies. I think flying planes into a building was a faith-based initiative. I think religion is a neurological disorder. " --Bill Maher , Appearing as a guest on MSNBC's "Scarborough Country" , February 2005

Bill Maher and Larry Charles made this film together...At the Toronto Int'l Film Festival , they go on record with the following :

“What do you believe , why do you believe it , and why do you need to believe it ? Can we be good without God ? Is religion a calling or a mental illness ? Were Jesus, Moses and Mohammed prophets and visionaries, or crackpot nut cases who today would be put away ? Is religion an obsessive-compulsive disorder ? ”
--Bill Maher , again

One reviewer at a major newspaper said this about the film :

" The film they've produced is a...combination of uneasily merged elements. Though Maher is known as a comedian, his qualms about religion are serious and sincere. But because he wants to be amusing above all else, he takes his questions not to sober religious thinkers but to the assorted fruits and nuts that populate the fringes of religion just as they do the fringes of atheism. The humor he creates at their expense proves nothing except that dealing from a stacked deck benefits no one but the dealer."

So it is only about making a buck...It's not an unbiased inquiry into anything...

Larry Charles , who produced the film with Maher , says :

“…a raunchy, rude, irreverent, outrageous, and shocking nonfiction film about the greatest fiction ever told. Set to the rhythms of ‘Sympathy for the Devil’…”

Seems that he and Maher both reveal their biases , by only disparaging the belief systems of others...

But , when they do it , they call it nonfiction...

Hunh...

AGENTROUKA

Thursday, October 2, 2008 8:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by out2theblack:
Quote:
Originally posted by Whisper:

...I think it looks hilarious and thought-provoking at the same time.

Being that that's your standard , how'd you like EXPELLED ?

http://www.expelledthemovie.com/home.php

Bill Maher , like so many other fictitious characters , does occasionally cause me to laugh...

This one looks hilarious!

I'm not sure I can fully agree with the line of questioning, as ultimately, "intelligent creator" puts an end to the line of questioning, which is not the point of science.

Science is about knowing facts and extrapolation based on these known facts. Religion or faith are not about facts or knowing, they are about faith and the transcendent. By definition, the two are incompatible. Science IS a line of questioning, religion is a form of answering questions. Different questions.

So, theoretically, you can make every line of "I don't know that" the startig point for "Intelligent Creator" belief, but that also makes it not science anymore because it removes the possibility for a "yet" at the end of that sentence.

I'm an agnostic, I do not recount any possibilities, simply because there is no knowing. But science is 'how', religion is 'why' and, indeed, they cancel each other out when mixed. Try to prove religion theoretically, you remove faith. Try to explain the world based on faith, you remove the quest for factual knowledge.

The two can and should exist quite beautifully in parallel lines.

KHYRON

Thursday, October 2, 2008 10:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Whisper:
Here's my question...

Why is it that when a movie comes out that is "anti-religious" is some fashion there is a big outcry, but when a movie comes out obviously pro-christian, no one says boo about it?

When I saw what this thread is about I wanted to ask the exact same thing.

I generally object to the fact that Christians are allowed to say that atheists are morally inferior and will burn in hell (and if they don't say it, in most cases they still think it), but on those few occasions when atheists bring out books or movies critical of religion, it's an "unprovoked attack" that's based on "one-sided arguments designed to cause rifts between people". The hypocrisy is astounding, although not surprising given the history of hypocrisy that defines organized religion, as well as the hypocritical day-to-day behaviour of many of its most ardent supporters.

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ZEEK

Thursday, October 2, 2008 3:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Please, wake up - spend some time in a hospital or a nursing home and you will discover that we're full of parts that wear out and break and then we just stop living altogether. Perfectly imperfect really.

Did God create disease? Cancer? Cholera? Tuberculosis? Alzheimer's? So he could watch us be tortued before we die? At least many of us will be able to do some extreme suffering before we die - Thank you God! And those that survive us, their suffering may be even worse. Double thanks Big Guy - u da man!

Season's are nice though, unless you're talking about hurricane season. Katrina? Official Act of God.

"Abundant food supplies?" Africa? Children starving by the thousands?

Any religion worthy of following shouldn't be afraid to answer tough questions or stand up to a comedian's scrutiny. Don't you want to know the truth?

And fwiw I'm not a fan of Bill Maher.

Sorry but human beings and well pretty much all living things are incredible technological marvels. We couldn't create anything even close with the knowledge we have. "Perfect" is all relevant. Is it perfect for humans to constantly die out and at the same time spawn a new generation hopefully slightly evolved to handle their environment better. Would it be more perfect if we were immortal but eventually died because we couldn't live with the changes in the environment? Would it be perfect if humans started to overpopulate the planet and a disease sprung up to counter the overpopulation and kill us off? Is pain bad?

You seem to have made a lot of assumptions about perfection that I don't think everyone would necessarily agree with.

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
(and if they don't say it, in most cases they still think it)

lol Come on are you really claiming to know people's thoughts? It sounds more like you're believing what you want to believe to justify your feelings. There's almost never a good situation for projecting qualities onto a whole group of people. Turns out people are fairly varied and diverse. You might be surprised what they really believe if you ask them.

PIZMOBEACH

Thursday, October 2, 2008 4:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:

Sorry but human beings and well pretty much all living things are incredible technological marvels. We couldn't create anything even close with the knowledge we have. "Perfect" is all relevant. Is it perfect for humans to constantly die out and at the same time spawn a new generation hopefully slightly evolved to handle their environment better. Would it be more perfect if we were immortal but eventually died because we couldn't live with the changes in the environment? Would it be perfect if humans started to overpopulate the planet and a disease sprung up to counter the overpopulation and kill us off? Is pain bad?

You seem to have made a lot of assumptions about perfection that I don't think everyone would necessarily agree with.

You are absolutely right about one's own perspective being the main guide for defining what is perfect, and I make assumptions only for myself.

Totally agree: I completely botched the pony I was trying to make. So complex!

I was going to try and address your questions but ended up typing an opus which was completely boring. If your faith makes you a "better" person, then amen brother! Just don't get your chocolate in my peanut butter. The Golden Rule is all we really need imho.

And pain is not necessarily bad. Fire hot, pain good! People suffering, pain bad.

OPPYH

Thursday, October 2, 2008 6:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Have you seen his movie? He is not saying that believers are dummy's, nor does he say he does not believe in God. He is simply asking how the people who believe absolutely can.....believe absolutely.

I mean come on, do you ACTUALLY believe that Noah built an ark and got all the animals on it? Do you ACTUALLY believe that the dinosaurs and man resided on earth at the same time? Do you really think that God created the earth in 6 days about 3000 years ago? 6000?

He is simply asking the question. If one is trully faithful and a believer then they should not feel threatened.

There are no threatened feeling whatsoever on my behalf. And as I said I don't read the bible. Just don't know why people try to debunk others beliefs. It's our belief, and our business.

I believe in a supreme being, and I do believe absolutely....without question. I believe in God. Man cannot comprehend the greatness of God, and it won't be until we pass away that we learn what exactly the meaning of life is. People tend to have answers for every question, so when it comes to something we can't explain then of course there will be people who doubt.

NE0VEN0M

Thursday, October 2, 2008 6:42 PM

I do not believe in God. But I also don't believe it's right to impose your beliefs or lack of beliefs onto others. Bill and Bible thumpers are in the same boat to me, the boat of disrespect and intolerance towards others.

KHYRON

Friday, October 3, 2008 9:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
lol Come on are you really claiming to know people's thoughts? It sounds more like you're believing what you want to believe to justify your feelings. There's almost never a good situation for projecting qualities onto a whole group of people. Turns out people are fairly varied and diverse. You might be surprised what they really believe if you ask them.

Yes, I "never asked them", lol! I feel you're being a little naive if you think that the only way to know what people are thinking is if they articulate their thoughts. Sometimes what they don't say, or the way they say what they do say, is just as revealing.

It's ironic that you scold me for making assumptions about people and end up making an assumption about me, namely that I don't know enough Christians to have formed an opinion of them. I'm a life-long atheist and grew up with Christians all around me; I've been involved more religious discussions than I care to remember and I think I know the Christian mindset well enough.

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MIGHTYROAR

Friday, October 3, 2008 9:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ne0ven0m:
I do not believe in God. But I also don't believe it's right to impose your beliefs or lack of beliefs onto others. Bill and Bible thumpers are in the same boat to me, the boat of disrespect and intolerance towards others.

I agree. I don't believe in God either, but I do respect the feelings and beliefs of those who do. Faith is a very personal thing, and trying to impose your feelings on someone one way or the other offends me. My in-laws are catholic, and religion is very dear to them. They know I'm an athiest, and they don't (I hope!) think any less of me for it. They never ask me to come to church, though they have said I'd be welcome if I ever wanted to, but it really never comes up. Likewise, I would never dream of telling them that I think they're wrong. They get a comfort and strength from their faith in God, I get it elsewhere.

ZEEK

Friday, October 3, 2008 4:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
Yes, I "never asked them", lol! I feel you're being a little naive if you think that the only way to know what people are thinking is if they articulate their thoughts. Sometimes what they don't say, or the way they say what they do say, is just as revealing.

It's ironic that you scold me for making assumptions about people and end up making an assumption about me, namely that I don't know enough Christians to have formed an opinion of them. I'm a life-long atheist and grew up with Christians all around me; I've been involved more religious discussions than I care to remember and I think I know the Christian mindset well enough.

You're missing my point. If you don't know them all then you don't know enough of them to make a blanket statement about them. People are individuals. It's easier for us to put them in groups in our minds, but the reality is never that simple.

WHOZIT

Friday, October 3, 2008 6:21 PM

I wonder if he goes after Scientology? Alot of Hollywood is into Scientology, if he does, he may be taken off the party A-List

CORNCOBB

Friday, October 3, 2008 6:27 PM

Quote:
Just don't know why people try to debunk others beliefs

Look at it this way: faith and atheism are mutually exclusive, opposite beliefs. A believer in one cannot express their views without contradicting, and thus on some levels debunking, the other.
What I find frustrating as an atheist is that every time I express my beliefs I get christians taking it personally. It's not meant as an attack when I say that I don't believe what christianity says and don't think it's a good guide to morality. It's my opinion, I'm entitled to it, I'm entitled to express that opinion, just as people are entitled to express a belief in religion. By doing so they automatically contradict and debunk atheist views, and yet thats always okay. (Which I think is the hypocritical attitude some others on this thread have said annoys them).
Perhaps we should talk more in terms of what we do believe rather than what we don't believe, maybe that would make it seem less like an attack. On the other hand though, maybe believers should accept that atheism is a belief system and not simply a lack of belief. Out of all the Christians I know, many believe all morality comes from faith, that all atheists are inherently evil. This is deeply offensive, and yet prejudiced attitudes like that go unchallenged. Even those who claim not to think like that have accidentally betrayed a condescending attitude to my beliefs. As mentioned, it's almost impossible for atheists and religious people to not challenge each other's beliefs. The key is in accepting that, and accepting that its nothing personal. And although no-one ever complains when someone expresses a positive attitude towards religion, a belief in christianity for example, the reverse is not true. When an atheist speaks out about their world view, well, we get debates like this.
As far as Bill Mahers goes, he does seem to be deliberately sensationalist, but that's the media for you. He'd be much more of a threat to religion if he didn't try to court controversy.
By the way 'Do you believe in God? Bill Mahers doesn't.' has a rather derogatory tone, as if his not believing in God is something shocking that we should all gossip about and condemn him for.
Just my two cents. In keeping with the gist of my arguement, I'm not trying to attack, just trying to explain.

WHOZIT

Friday, October 3, 2008 7:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Corncobb:
Quote:
Just don't know why people try to debunk others beliefs

Look at it this way: faith and atheism are mutually exclusive, opposite beliefs. A believer in one cannot express their views without contradicting, and thus on some levels debunking, the other.
What I find frustrating as an atheist is that every time I express my beliefs I get christians taking it personally. It's not meant as an attack when I say that I don't believe what christianity says and don't think it's a good guide to morality. It's my opinion, I'm entitled to it, I'm entitled to express that opinion, just as people are entitled to express a belief in religion. By doing so they automatically contradict and debunk atheist views, and yet thats always okay. (Which I think is the hypocritical attitude some others on this thread have said annoys them).
Perhaps we should talk more in terms of what we do believe rather than what we don't believe, maybe that would make it seem less like an attack. On the other hand though, maybe believers should accept that atheism is a belief system and not simply a lack of belief. Out of all the Christians I know, many believe all morality comes from faith, that all atheists are inherently evil. This is deeply offensive, and yet prejudiced attitudes like that go unchallenged. Even those who claim not to think like that have accidentally betrayed a condescending attitude to my beliefs. As mentioned, it's almost impossible for atheists and religious people to not challenge each other's beliefs. The key is in accepting that, and accepting that its nothing personal. And although no-one ever complains when someone expresses a positive attitude towards religion, a belief in christianity for example, the reverse is not true. When an atheist speaks out about their world view, well, we get debates like this.
As far as Bill Mahers goes, he does seem to be deliberately sensationalist, but that's the media for you. He'd be much more of a threat to religion if he didn't try to court controversy.
By the way 'Do you believe in God? Bill Mahers doesn't.' has a rather derogatory tone, as if his not believing in God is something shocking that we should all gossip about and condemn him for.
Just my two cents. In keeping with the gist of my arguement, I'm not trying to attack, just trying to explain.

But when Bill Maher does it,we do take it personaly, "YOU" do'nt mean to insult us, but Bill Maher does.

KHYRON

Friday, October 3, 2008 9:38 PM

Zeek, did you miss that I said "in most cases" and not "all of them"?

But I might've just as well said "all of them" and I still would've had an argument, since non-believers end up in hell according to the bible, and if there's one generalization I can make that you won't object to, it's that all Christians follow the bible (to varying degrees). However, I know for a fact that not all of them believe that, so I won't make that argument.

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TRAVELER

Saturday, October 4, 2008 12:19 AM

Not all of us, who believe in God, belong to a formal religion.

To me the perfection of existence is that it is random. It is all chance; from the smallest particle to grand region we call the universe. Religion has been used to persecute others, including competing religions since its creation. If religion did not exist then we would find some other excuse to perform genocide. We are very inventive. So I don't blame religion. Religion is just pawn to be used to enforce hate.

We invented racism. A lot of people have died over that. Does not matter what religion you belong to. If you are the wrong color then you are less and not worthy. Yet someone finds a passage in the Bible to support it.

You can interpret any of the religious texts to your advantage and use religion to make any claims you want.

Why do you think Jesus said "Father forgive them, for they do not know what they do." He was talking about how He was going to used to justify murder and enslavement. It did not matter that Jesus talked about love and forgiveness. People had other agendas that were more important. Love and forgiveness get in the way. Better to look for hate and greed.

It suited the purpose of the Cardinals to make the Maid of Orleans a saint while she lead the French against the English. As soon as she taken captive and lost her usefulness, then she was a false prophet. What did they finally use as an excuse to burn her? She put on mens clothes. Crossdressing was a big no no back in those days.

You can look back at history and find people twisting religious doctrine to their purpose over and over again.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

OPPYH

Monday, October 13, 2008 3:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by traveler:
Not all of us, who believe in God, belong to a formal religion.

To me the perfection of existence is that it is random. It is all chance; from the smallest particle to grand region we call the universe. Religion has been used to persecute others, including competing religions since its creation. If religion did not exist then we would find some other excuse to perform genocide. We are very inventive. So I don't blame religion. Religion is just pawn to be used to enforce hate.

We invented racism. A lot of people have died over that. Does not matter what religion you belong to. If you are the wrong color then you are less and not worthy. Yet someone finds a passage in the Bible to support it.

You can interpret any of the religious texts to your advantage and use religion to make any claims you want.

Well said Traveler.

KWICKO

Monday, October 13, 2008 3:27 AM

Quote:
But , when they do it , they call it nonfiction...

Oddly enough, many religious people also claim their beliefs as "nonfiction"...

Mike

This world is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel.

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KWICKO

Monday, October 13, 2008 3:36 AM

Quote:

Look at it this way: faith and atheism are mutually exclusive, opposite beliefs.

Depends on how you classify "faith"; I'm an atheist, but I still have faith. I have faith in my fellow man, no matter how many times that faith has been unearned and undeserved. I still believe that on the day all mankind acts as one toward a common goal, we will have achieved the powers the gods are said to have.

So, faith and atheism aren't always mutually exclusive...

Just sayin.

Mike

This world is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel.

Trolls Against McCain!

CORNCOBB

Monday, October 13, 2008 12:54 PM

Ah yes, I agree completely. I did mean religious faith, but recognise that you can have faith in other things, just as I think of atheism as a belief. It's just a little difficult to be semantically correct and specific when discussing things like this.

"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."

KHYRON

Monday, October 13, 2008 1:12 PM

Quick question: If one is dead certain that there isn't a tea cup in direct orbit around the sun, does that count as faith, a belief, or plain old common sense?

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FINN MAC CUMHAL

Monday, October 13, 2008 1:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
Quick question: If one is dead certain that there isn't a tea cup in direct orbit around the sun, does that count as faith, a belief, or plain old common sense?

It would count as faith or a belief.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

KHYRON

Monday, October 13, 2008 1:22 PM

By that standard, there's no such thing as common sense.

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McCain/Palin: The first presidential ticket that features two candidates who have both been found to have violated ethics standards.

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Monday, October 13, 2008 1:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
By that standard, there's no such thing as common sense.

If you say so. I don’t even know how to respond to that.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

CORNCOBB

Monday, October 13, 2008 1:59 PM

Common sense could probably be defined as logical deduction or induction. Unless you have evidence that there is definitely no teacup orbiting the sun you cannot claim your assertion is anything more than a belief based on inductive reasoning e.g. A teacup has never been seen orbiting the sun, therefore there is no teacup orbiting the sun. The evidence supports your assertion but does not ensure that it's true. It's strong induction but still not deduction unless you can prove that the initial premise is true. In which case, according to Positivism, the premise becomes a fact ratehr than a belief. Doesn't mean it's not 'common sense' though.

"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."

RALLEM

Monday, October 13, 2008 4:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
OK, so here I go.

I believe in God. and contrary to what many athiests believe(I know there are many on this site alone) it doesn't make me stupid.

I have never lost sleep by reading the bible, in fact I hardly ever read anything in it. But I do believe there is a all mighty being(a creator) of everything. The universe, the way the seasons change, a single blade of grass, how utterly perfect people(and all life forms) are designed. Our earth is perfect for sustaining life with abundant food supplies, and water. It's exactly the right distance from the sun so that people don't fry, or freeze to death. It's so un-random it's scary. Everything has purpose.

Bill Maher's new movie is to try to dispell all religion, and all belief in God. Why? what does he gain? Who's funding his movie?
If your an Athiest, that's fine. It's what you believe. I may think your wrong, but I certainly wouldn't want you to become a christian either. Religion has always been a touchy subject. Why can't the stigma of Christians being "dummys" die? And while were at it, let's also drop the stigma of hostile athiests. Kirk Cameron didn't pay me to write this.

I think it is funny how the atheists can claim that we religious people are wrong in our having faith in God or in any religious deity in which we follow. I was watching a video on YouTube where Penn Frasier Jillette said that the Democratic Party was the party of Hate because they as a party cannot believe that the Republicans or anyone else could possibly disagree with them so therefore the Republicans in power must agree with them and are doing the things they do out of spite so therefore are evil and the Republicans should all die. This struck a chord with me because my best friend is an avid Democrat and he often goes into rants how evil Bush and Cheney are, and then goes into proper punishments for them. Anyway the video by Penn made lots of sense to me but then he begins to explain how President Bush isn’t an evil person, and is doing whet he thinks is right for America, but goes further to explain that President Bush is wrong for many of his ideas and opinions and for his faith in God. Anyway, Anyways, where do these people get their beliefs that they are right and everyone else who disagrees with them is wrong? Is the Lack of tangible evidence all it takes to say someone else is wrong?

http://swyzzlestyx.com/index.html

BIONICBATMAN

Monday, October 13, 2008 5:07 PM

Then Maher is lying. I have read plenty of interviews with him claiming that people who have faith have a mental illness. And in another said we should be in asylums cause of our faith. Quite the opposite of what he professed.

His movie is just an aetheist answer to Expelled. Notice how in the previews he isn't going to people who know the faith front and back. He goes to people on the street to make them look stupid.

This is a reply to Deadlockvictims first post

STORYMARK

Monday, October 13, 2008 5:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BionicBatman:

His movie is just an aetheist answer to Expelled. Notice how in the previews he isn't going to people who know the faith front and back. He goes to people on the street to make them look stupid.

Well, he doesn't cut the commercials himself.

But many reviews (by those who have seen the movie, and aren't just bashing it for ideology) have pointed out that he does ask a broad spectrum of people questions, from the low-info rubes (some of which just are stupid) to Priests at the Vatican. And he covers more than just Christianity, touching on all the major religions.

Also, a big part of his piont is that many religious people don't know much about their religion. I have a cousin who was raised in a very Catholic family, but didn't know even the most basic bible stories, or any actual history. When we started talking about stuff, and it became clear that I (a person who is not religious in any way) knew more about the Bible than her, she asked he mother. Her Mother didn't really know, either. So my Mom, a Buddhist, ended up giving my cousin a bunch of bible study books, so she could at least pick up the basics.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

KWICKO

Monday, October 13, 2008 6:01 PM

Quote:
Anyways, where do these people get their beliefs that they are right and everyone else who disagrees with them is wrong? Is the Lack of tangible evidence all it takes to say someone else is wrong?

I think I could ask the same question of religious people, so many of whom are CONSTANTLY telling me that I'm wrong and that I'm going to hell for my non-belief.

So how is it that they're right and everyone who doesn't believe exactly like them is wrong?

Is some flowery fiction written down in a book all it takes to say someone else is wrong?

Mike

This world is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel.

Trolls Against McCain!

RALLEM

Monday, October 13, 2008 6:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Anyways, where do these people get their beliefs that they are right and everyone else who disagrees with them is wrong? Is the Lack of tangible evidence all it takes to say someone else is wrong?

I think I could ask the same question of religious people, so many of whom are CONSTANTLY telling me that I'm wrong and that I'm going to hell for my non-belief.

So how is it that they're right and everyone who doesn't believe exactly like them is wrong?

Is some flowery fiction written down in a book all it takes to say someone else is wrong?

Mike

This world is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel.

Trolls Against McCain!

You won't get an argument from me.

http://swyzzlestyx.com/index.html

PIRATENEWS

Monday, October 13, 2008 7:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:
The list of things caused by religious conflict is really quite long, from massacres in Rwanda to 9/11 via the Holocaust and the Spanish Inquisition.

If everyone was calm and content like you to live and let live, there wouldn't be a problem. But that's not what happens.

Long reply, but this topic deserves it.

Many Christians fall into the trap set for them, by not-thinking that God/YHWH is so powerless that God cannot control time, or is too stupid to work with time, physics, biology and evolution. This is mere laziness, since its too much work to read a science textbook.

Most of all religious (corporate) doctrine is mythology, repackaged to hijack to pagan religions.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5547481422995115331

9/11 was perped by Jewish atheists, who pay millions of dollars salary to jew Bill Maher. Read Operation Northwoods, the signed confession by Zionist jewish chairman of US joint chiefs of staff at the Pentagon, 4-star General Lyman Lemnitzer, including exactly what happened on 9/11, CIA assassination of president JFK Sr, and Israel's attack on USS Liberty.
www.piratenews.org/911con.html
www.september911surprise.com

Quote:
OPERATION NORTHWOODS - the signed confession by US Govt for perping terrorist attacks in USA
www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1
www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/Northwoods.html

Bill Maher does what his employer tells him to do, which includes destroying 9/11 Truth.

When Bill Maher first started asking questions about Bush perping 9/11, he was fired from his TV show "Politically Incorrect". So Mayer now knows what topics are verboten to his jewish masters.

Every dictionary defines Semite as ARAB, NOT a Khazar AshkeNAZI "jew" living in USA or Europe. The 18-year war in Iraq has genocided 2.6-million Arab Semites and Christian Semites, to reclaim the jewish holyland of Iraq (Babylon and the Garden of Eden). The jewish bible is the Babylonian Talmud, not the Jewish Torah (Christian Old Testament).

In Israel today, Christianity and Islam are felonies, and only jews with jewish mothers are allowed to be citizens. Never mind that 95% of "jews" are white Khazar AshkeNAZIs who have zero DNA from ancient Israel, and descend from Genghis Khan in Turkey and Russia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars
www.khazaria.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/Ashkenazim.html

www.JewsAgainstZionism.com

Real Jews agree that modern Israel has no right to exist under Jewish law, and agree that the Jewish religion is a myth.

Bush Jr's director of US Dept of Homeland Security is jewish Israeli citizen Michael Chertoff, born in Commie Czechoslovakia, whose mommy was a terrorist who founded Mossad in Israel. 25,000 Christian preachers are now employed by Chertoff to lie to their sheeple that martial law is good for them. Chertoff means "son of the Devil" in Russian.
www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2007/160807_quell_dissent.htm

Jews are passing laws to ban the Christian Bible in USA, as already banned in UK, Australia and Canada. Preachers who dare read from the Bible are immediately arrested.
www.truthtellers.org

Jews have now censored 1,000s of words from the Bible, such as "Jesus" and "Lucifer".
www.the7thfire.com/new_world_order/zionism/how_zionists_corrupted_the_
bible.htm
www.christianparty.net/scofield.htm

99% of Christian churches are now owned by jewish banksters via 501c3 IRS tax exemption contract, which censors free speech. This also makes churches "govt owned churches".

Jewish communist ACLU made posting the 10 Commandments a crime in court houses, for warning sheeple not to steal or murder.

Jewish president Bill "Clinton" Blythe Rockefeller massacred 80 Christians in church in Waco/Crawford Texas, using

OUT2THEBLACK

Monday, October 13, 2008 9:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
Quick question: If one is dead certain that there isn't a tea cup in direct orbit around the sun, does that count as faith, a belief, or plain old common sense?

I'm dead certain there are hundreds of millions of teacups in direct orbit around the sun...Velocity approximately 66,000 MPH .

All but a few of them are right here on Earth .

EMBERS

Monday, October 13, 2008 10:15 PM

has anyone in this thread actually seen the movie?

Just asking.

New Firefly fans should check this out: http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=2&t=15816

ODDBODSKINS

Monday, October 13, 2008 11:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
has anyone in this thread actually seen the movie?

Just asking.

SEE the movie? Oh you must've completely missed the point!

____________________
'That torpedo hit us hard. We've got serious damage to the thrusters, heat warping in the secondary camshaft and the right side emergency jets completely knackered. We can't thrust, our shafts bent, and we'll probably never shoot off from the right hand again!'

PIRATENEWS

Monday, October 13, 2008 11:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
has anyone in this thread actually seen the movie?

Just asking.

Religulous Trailer

Jew Maher is asking the wrong questions, on purpose. This smells like AGENDA.

Are there ANY questions he asks of jews? Such as, "Why do jewish rabbis perform oral sex on little babies during circumcision bris ritual?"
www.piratenews.org/pedophile-jewish-rabbis-kill-babies.html

No mention of Jewish Bohemian Grove for Satanic human sacrifice and snuff kiddie porn, of which Maher's a member. No Christian can ever go to Bohemian Grove, and Maher knows that.

Quote:

George Bush Jr's grandfather was Satanist Aleister "The Beast 666" Crowley
www.rense.com/general77/acrow.htm

"The Oath of Fealty I bind my blood in Satan's hands, All this that lieth betwixt my hands To thee, the Beast, and thy control, I pledge me; body, mind, and soul. Pledge I swear to work my Work abhorred, Careless of all but one reward, The pleasure of the Devil our Lord."
—Aleister "The Beast 666" Crowley 33° Grand Inspector General Scottish Rite of Freemasonry and Frater Superior Baphomet XI°, SATANIC EXTRACTS

"But the bloody sacrifice, though more dangerous, is more efficacious; and for nearly all purposes human sacrifice is the best. For the highest spiritual working one must accordingly choose that victim which contains the greatest and purest force. A male child of perfect innocence and high intelligence is the most satisfactory and suitable victim."
—Aleister Crowley, MAGICK in Theory and Practice

Bush goes to Bohemian Grove, yet Maher still calls Bush a Christian, when Bush is a jewish name.

Quote:

"This publication of the National Jewish Welfare Board lists a Major George Bush, Major Louis Bush, and Major Solomon Bush, as Jews participating in the American Revolutionary War against the British."
-Professor Texe Marrs, Captain USAF Intelligence
www.conspiracyworld.com/index0128.htm

Tilton is a conman. He asks sheeple to put their hands on the X-ray tube, er, TV screen and he will heal them if they just send their money to him. No money-back guarantee.

The Rapture is a jewish invention to destroy Christianity. Rapture is never mentioned in the Bible. Jewish lawyer Scofield invented the Rapture 100 years ago.

Christmas is a pagan holiday that was banned un USA and UK by the Puritans, who also cut the head off the king of England and banned the British monarchy. Christmas has nothing to do with the birth of "Jesus" (not his real name). This is according to jewish Christians:
www.fossilizedcustoms.com

Modern Christmas is a jewish invention by Macy's store to sell crap to Christians. The Macy's logo is the Communist red star of Lucifer. Macy's also sells T-shirts celebrating Bohemian Grove and the Luciferian Illunminati, Luciferian Knights Templar and Communism by "American Rag".

www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message627855/pg1
www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message627807/pg1

Maher is correct that Christianity will never survive, if it continues to deny reality of jewish warfare, and preachers continue to lie to their sheeple that "jews are god's chosen people" and "israel is the holy land".

Here's what a real Christian preacher sounds like, without a 501c3 IRS contract, who has sold millions of books:
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=texe+marrs&emb=0&aq=f#

Two overpaid jews separated at birth

KHYRON

Tuesday, October 14, 2008 7:36 AM

Here's another one just for you, o2b: The sun will rise tomorrow. Belief, faith or common sense?

------------------------------

McCain/Palin: The first presidential ticket that features two candidates who have both been found to have violated ethics standards.

MALSAD

Tuesday, October 14, 2008 7:06 PM

that is common sense
the sun has come up every day for as long as said person has been alive and has no evadence that it wont

so common sense

STOWEAWAY

Tuesday, October 14, 2008 9:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
I wonder if he goes after Scientology? Alot of Hollywood is into Scientology, if he does, he may be taken off the party A-List

I saw a few clips last night on Charlie Rose.
In one segment they go to a park in England where folks come out to "soapbox". There is a guy there shouting about Scientology. And after each of his statements, the producers insert a text line at the bottom expanding on Scientology beliefs.
So, yes, he does address Scientology at some point. According to Maher, he never needed to make any biased comments about Scientology because the plain facts about their religion were enough to make them look like idiots (his words, not mine).

It's pretty clear from his interview last night that he really does intend to insult religion and perhaps the blindly religious. He seems to get a kick out of it. And that's his prerogative -- free speech and all. I wouldn't consider him an expert on religious matters any more than I would other entertainers who say things just for the shock value -- Howard Stern, Rush Limbaugh -- they are not the scholars from whom I seek knowledge.

I'll probably go see it just for entertainment value. And really that's what movies are for, aren't they? I doubt anyone changed their mind about Christianity by seeing "Passion of the Christ". So there's no real danger, actual or perceived, in having this movie released. Just good for a laugh.

** Does PirateNews always post like that? Yikes. I'm glad I stay out of RWED. **

----------------------------------------------
Check out http://www.americasfunniesttshirts.com for hilarious shirts at a great price.

OUT2THEBLACK

Wednesday, October 15, 2008 8:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Anyways, where do these people get their beliefs that they are right and everyone else who disagrees with them is wrong? Is the Lack of tangible evidence all it takes to say someone else is wrong?

I think I could ask the same question of religious people, so many of whom are CONSTANTLY telling me that I'm wrong and that I'm going to hell for my non-belief.

So how is it that they're right and everyone who doesn't believe exactly like them is wrong?

Is some flowery fiction written down in a book all it takes to say someone else is wrong?

Mike

Well , 'hell' isn't what some would have you believe...

Folk who'd tell you that God will subject you to everlasting fiery torment are misled...

You admit to having some esteem for 'faith'...

Here's a little cure for atheism...Admittedly , it's not for everyone , but it's definitely worth watching :

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, October 15, 2008 10:17 AM

I think Bill Maher is a schmuck. I hate his politics and detest him as a human being. And I'm not an 'angry' atheist, which Maher seems to be. While I think there's plenty in religion to mock, I also recognize some of our greatest minds, in science in particular, were / are those who believe.

And I'm cool w/ that.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

STORYMARK

Wednesday, October 15, 2008 4:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Stoweaway:

** Does PirateNews always post like that? Yikes. I'm glad I stay out of RWED. **

Yep!

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."