Do you believe in God? Bill Maher doesn't.

POSTED BY: OPPYH
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 16:34
VIEWED: 10740
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ZEEK

Friday, October 3, 2008 4:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
Yes, I "never asked them", lol! I feel you're being a little naive if you think that the only way to know what people are thinking is if they articulate their thoughts. Sometimes what they don't say, or the way they say what they do say, is just as revealing.

It's ironic that you scold me for making assumptions about people and end up making an assumption about me, namely that I don't know enough Christians to have formed an opinion of them. I'm a life-long atheist and grew up with Christians all around me; I've been involved more religious discussions than I care to remember and I think I know the Christian mindset well enough.

You're missing my point. If you don't know them all then you don't know enough of them to make a blanket statement about them. People are individuals. It's easier for us to put them in groups in our minds, but the reality is never that simple.

WHOZIT

Friday, October 3, 2008 6:21 PM

I wonder if he goes after Scientology? Alot of Hollywood is into Scientology, if he does, he may be taken off the party A-List

CORNCOBB

Friday, October 3, 2008 6:27 PM

Quote:
Just don't know why people try to debunk others beliefs

Look at it this way: faith and atheism are mutually exclusive, opposite beliefs. A believer in one cannot express their views without contradicting, and thus on some levels debunking, the other.
What I find frustrating as an atheist is that every time I express my beliefs I get christians taking it personally. It's not meant as an attack when I say that I don't believe what christianity says and don't think it's a good guide to morality. It's my opinion, I'm entitled to it, I'm entitled to express that opinion, just as people are entitled to express a belief in religion. By doing so they automatically contradict and debunk atheist views, and yet thats always okay. (Which I think is the hypocritical attitude some others on this thread have said annoys them).
Perhaps we should talk more in terms of what we do believe rather than what we don't believe, maybe that would make it seem less like an attack. On the other hand though, maybe believers should accept that atheism is a belief system and not simply a lack of belief. Out of all the Christians I know, many believe all morality comes from faith, that all atheists are inherently evil. This is deeply offensive, and yet prejudiced attitudes like that go unchallenged. Even those who claim not to think like that have accidentally betrayed a condescending attitude to my beliefs. As mentioned, it's almost impossible for atheists and religious people to not challenge each other's beliefs. The key is in accepting that, and accepting that its nothing personal. And although no-one ever complains when someone expresses a positive attitude towards religion, a belief in christianity for example, the reverse is not true. When an atheist speaks out about their world view, well, we get debates like this.
As far as Bill Mahers goes, he does seem to be deliberately sensationalist, but that's the media for you. He'd be much more of a threat to religion if he didn't try to court controversy.
By the way 'Do you believe in God? Bill Mahers doesn't.' has a rather derogatory tone, as if his not believing in God is something shocking that we should all gossip about and condemn him for.
Just my two cents. In keeping with the gist of my arguement, I'm not trying to attack, just trying to explain.

WHOZIT

Friday, October 3, 2008 7:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Corncobb:
Quote:
Just don't know why people try to debunk others beliefs

Look at it this way: faith and atheism are mutually exclusive, opposite beliefs. A believer in one cannot express their views without contradicting, and thus on some levels debunking, the other.
What I find frustrating as an atheist is that every time I express my beliefs I get christians taking it personally. It's not meant as an attack when I say that I don't believe what christianity says and don't think it's a good guide to morality. It's my opinion, I'm entitled to it, I'm entitled to express that opinion, just as people are entitled to express a belief in religion. By doing so they automatically contradict and debunk atheist views, and yet thats always okay. (Which I think is the hypocritical attitude some others on this thread have said annoys them).
Perhaps we should talk more in terms of what we do believe rather than what we don't believe, maybe that would make it seem less like an attack. On the other hand though, maybe believers should accept that atheism is a belief system and not simply a lack of belief. Out of all the Christians I know, many believe all morality comes from faith, that all atheists are inherently evil. This is deeply offensive, and yet prejudiced attitudes like that go unchallenged. Even those who claim not to think like that have accidentally betrayed a condescending attitude to my beliefs. As mentioned, it's almost impossible for atheists and religious people to not challenge each other's beliefs. The key is in accepting that, and accepting that its nothing personal. And although no-one ever complains when someone expresses a positive attitude towards religion, a belief in christianity for example, the reverse is not true. When an atheist speaks out about their world view, well, we get debates like this.
As far as Bill Mahers goes, he does seem to be deliberately sensationalist, but that's the media for you. He'd be much more of a threat to religion if he didn't try to court controversy.
By the way 'Do you believe in God? Bill Mahers doesn't.' has a rather derogatory tone, as if his not believing in God is something shocking that we should all gossip about and condemn him for.
Just my two cents. In keeping with the gist of my arguement, I'm not trying to attack, just trying to explain.

But when Bill Maher does it,we do take it personaly, "YOU" do'nt mean to insult us, but Bill Maher does.

KHYRON

Friday, October 3, 2008 9:38 PM

Zeek, did you miss that I said "in most cases" and not "all of them"?

But I might've just as well said "all of them" and I still would've had an argument, since non-believers end up in hell according to the bible, and if there's one generalization I can make that you won't object to, it's that all Christians follow the bible (to varying degrees). However, I know for a fact that not all of them believe that, so I won't make that argument.

------------------------------

Trolls against McCain

TRAVELER

Saturday, October 4, 2008 12:19 AM

Not all of us, who believe in God, belong to a formal religion.

To me the perfection of existence is that it is random. It is all chance; from the smallest particle to grand region we call the universe. Religion has been used to persecute others, including competing religions since its creation. If religion did not exist then we would find some other excuse to perform genocide. We are very inventive. So I don't blame religion. Religion is just pawn to be used to enforce hate.

We invented racism. A lot of people have died over that. Does not matter what religion you belong to. If you are the wrong color then you are less and not worthy. Yet someone finds a passage in the Bible to support it.

You can interpret any of the religious texts to your advantage and use religion to make any claims you want.

Why do you think Jesus said "Father forgive them, for they do not know what they do." He was talking about how He was going to used to justify murder and enslavement. It did not matter that Jesus talked about love and forgiveness. People had other agendas that were more important. Love and forgiveness get in the way. Better to look for hate and greed.

It suited the purpose of the Cardinals to make the Maid of Orleans a saint while she lead the French against the English. As soon as she taken captive and lost her usefulness, then she was a false prophet. What did they finally use as an excuse to burn her? She put on mens clothes. Crossdressing was a big no no back in those days.

You can look back at history and find people twisting religious doctrine to their purpose over and over again.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

OPPYH

Monday, October 13, 2008 3:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by traveler:
Not all of us, who believe in God, belong to a formal religion.

To me the perfection of existence is that it is random. It is all chance; from the smallest particle to grand region we call the universe. Religion has been used to persecute others, including competing religions since its creation. If religion did not exist then we would find some other excuse to perform genocide. We are very inventive. So I don't blame religion. Religion is just pawn to be used to enforce hate.

We invented racism. A lot of people have died over that. Does not matter what religion you belong to. If you are the wrong color then you are less and not worthy. Yet someone finds a passage in the Bible to support it.

You can interpret any of the religious texts to your advantage and use religion to make any claims you want.

Well said Traveler.

KWICKO

Monday, October 13, 2008 3:27 AM

Quote:
But , when they do it , they call it nonfiction...

Oddly enough, many religious people also claim their beliefs as "nonfiction"...

Mike

This world is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel.

Trolls Against McCain!

KWICKO

Monday, October 13, 2008 3:36 AM

Quote:

Look at it this way: faith and atheism are mutually exclusive, opposite beliefs.

Depends on how you classify "faith"; I'm an atheist, but I still have faith. I have faith in my fellow man, no matter how many times that faith has been unearned and undeserved. I still believe that on the day all mankind acts as one toward a common goal, we will have achieved the powers the gods are said to have.

So, faith and atheism aren't always mutually exclusive...

Just sayin.

Mike

This world is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel.

Trolls Against McCain!

CORNCOBB

Monday, October 13, 2008 12:54 PM

Ah yes, I agree completely. I did mean religious faith, but recognise that you can have faith in other things, just as I think of atheism as a belief. It's just a little difficult to be semantically correct and specific when discussing things like this.

"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."

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