Capital Offense
POSTED BY: AnthonyT
UPDATED: Sunday, November 16, 2025 04:49
VIEWED: 11738
PAGE 11 of 22
Quote:
And such was the consensus of the US Intelligence Community
Oh you mean the fine fellows that gave us "Remember the Maine" and the Tonkin Gulf Incident, and COINTELPRO and MOCKINGBIRD and Dominos in South Indochina and didn't tell us internal explosions within the building did most of the damage to the Oklahoma Federal Building in spite of finding three unexploded devices, and gave the WTC 1993 bombers materials, plans and an expert to wire it all up for them, who they then forbade to sabotage it so it didn't work, who gave us WMDs and flower throwing Iraqis and cheap gas prices and home by christmas ?
You mean the folks that for all of that, all of the terrorism committed against the very people they are supposedly protecting, all the massive budgets, the stolen freedoms and every resource they could ever possibly want or need right up to satellites that can show you who made a golf ball sitting in an inch of snow in Sibera, have never once detected an attack in time to do any fuckin thing about it, in spite of the fact that this is their entire alleged purpose and can't even find one jumped up goat herder on dialysis in spite of the fact that they trained, financed and armed his ass in the first place, and also somehow failed to mention the fact that they propped up Saddam the same way after fucking up Operation Ajax and causing a backlash fronted by Khomeni ?
You mean those shining examples of excellence, competence and credibility ?
Dude, if those dickheads told me the sun would rise in the east tomorrow, I'd wonder who swapped directions on their compass - and then get a second opinion.
WHY do people put faith in a set of organisations that have NEVER EVEN ONCE effectively performed their assigned mission, act counterproductively to it 100% of the time, and incompetently bungle even that ?!
What have they EVER done to deserve one whit of faith in them whatsoever, throughout their entire history ?
And no, that's not rhetorical, I want a fuckin answer, with proof, citations and evidence from confirmed real-world sources, not some bullshit fictional plot cooked up by their planted agent in the first place so they LOOK like they're actually doing something other than fucking up for once.
Cause I think the greatest terrorist threat against america and it's people resides in those agencies, as they have a history of confirmed, proven, even admitted - terrorism against the very folk they're supposed to be protecting, and in light of that, why the HELL does ANYONE believe them when they point the finger at someone else ?
I mean, if you were a cop, and arrested a four time loser drug pusher who's also guilty of several counts of perjury, would YOU take his word for it when he fingers someone as his supplier ?
I find the credibility of admitted liars and criminals to be less than acceptable evidence to initiate a war over, sorry.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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But then even Tony Blair admitted that the evidence for Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction program was politicised, so there being a consensus in the US/UK governments doesn't prove a thing, except lots of people were duped by purposefully manipulated data, data manipulated by people who had already made up their minds.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
But then even Tony Blair admitted that the evidence for Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction program was politicised, so there being a consensus in the US/UK governments doesn't prove a thing, except lots of people were duped by purposefully manipulated data, data manipulated by people who had already made up their minds.
So much for the scientific model... find or create the data that conforms to your hypothesis, and you have your proof! WMD! WMD!
Quote:
I mean, if you were a cop, and arrested a four time loser drug pusher who's also guilty of several counts of perjury, would YOU take his word for it when he fingers someone as his supplier ?
Sadly, this is exactly the way it usually goes down - and a good part of why no-knock raids are so often botched.
'Course, I suppose we could always torture the info out of the perps, just to be sure they're giving us accurate information...
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:One doesn’t have to be an expert to cherry-pick two phrases and take them out of context either. But that is what happens when you apply an ideological model.
Originally posted by rue:
"Iraq's production of biological weapons was assessed to be largely dormant ... We assess Iraq's production of chemical weapons to be largely dormant."
One doesn't have to be an expert to read the plain language.
You lazily accuse Bush of lying. Frem assumes his usual conspiracy theory nonsense. Citizen skillfully dodges the evidence. And Kwicko just goes along with whoever tells him what he wants to hear. Anthony is the only honest response.
But the fact remains that regardless of whether you want to believe it or not, there was widespread consensus within the intelligence communities of the US and most other nations that Saddam Hussein had WMDs.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Agree with Finn, or be a liar, ahh, somethings never change.
Well, being that we're into lies lets go out to the one Finn just made when he said I "evaded the question" (what question was that I might ask, but that's a different matter. Earlier I clearly stated:
Quote:
I thought there was no where near enough evidence to justify a war, what do I win.
AnthonyT might have given the only truthful response, yours, however, is the usual bag of bullshit lies and unfounded ad hominem attacks we've come to expect of you.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:If my conclusions are independent from data, then why am I right so often? That IS the test of a hypothesis, is it not? Is it because I know where to look for data, and how to evaluate it?
I realize that it’s all as simple as the sun coming up tomorrow for you, but that’s because you’re opinion is independent of the data or scientific process.
Some of MY data includes the fact that some of the data "out there" is politically-driven. But when USA nuclear experts flatly say that the aluminum tubes in question simply do not meet centrifuge tube specs, or when experts on the ground cannot find hide nor hair of an ongoing WMD program (much less massive stockpiles), then I pay very close attention.
Let's try something a little less emotional... our invasion of Panama. For years, the information coming our way was that Colombia was a major source of drugs, and that it typically came over the Mexican border. "Suddenly", Noriega was a "major" drug player. It was thumped in all of the media with increasing frequency. We had to invade RIGHT AWAY. True?
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Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal
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Quote:
And Kwicko just goes along with whoever tells him what he wants to hear.
This from one of the people here who has consistently, one hundred percent of the time, gone along with whatever the Bush Administration has said. Never once have you wavered in your unerring support for and belief in ANYTHING you're told by this administration.
Could it be that they're just telling you what you want to hear? Because one thing's for sure - they, AND YOU, certainly haven't been correct 100% of the time, or even close to half the time.
Nope, you've been getting it wrong since Y2K.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Quote:
Frem assumes his usual conspiracy theory nonsense.
Theory my ass.
"Remember the Maine!"
FACT.
Shovelled by Hearst and helped along by US Intel folks who wanted themselves a war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_of_the_Spanish_American_War
"American newspapers fanned the flames of interest in the war by fabricating atrocities which justified intervention in a number of Spanish colonies worldwide."
Tonkin Gulf incident.
FACT.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_Incident
COINTELPRO
FACT.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cointelpro
MOCKINGBIRD
FACT.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird
Dominos in South Indochina
FACT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domino_theory
Additional Bombs inside the Murrah Building.
FACT
I might not care for Rivero, but he did secure scans of the actual documents.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/OK/bombs/bombs.html
The FBI supplied real explosives to the WTC bombers instead of the previously agreed fakes, and an expert to build wire it for them (That being Emad Salem, who they tried to pin it on, but who had wisely taped his conversations to prevent it).
FACT.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_bombing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emad_Salem
WMDs
Have any to show me ?
Thought not.
Flower throwing Iraqis
More like grenade throwing Iraqis, isn't it ?
Cheap gas prices
Yeah, how bout them plummeting prices at the pump, eh ?
Home by christmas
So, umm, all our troops were out of Iraq by 2002, right ?
They trained, financed and armed his ass in the first place
FACT
Does the name "Tim Osman" ring any bells with you ?
Propped up Saddam
Come on now, we don't even DENY it, for crying out loud.
Operation Ajax
FACT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ajax
Which installed the Shah, who was thrown down and replaced by Khomeni, who quite rightfully hated our guts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Revolution
All of this shit is proven fact, and most if not all of it has been ADMITTED TO by the parties responsible.
And that ain't even the half of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_family_jewels
And not one iota of any of it isn't public record and easily accessible by someone who's got half an hour and good reason.
You're not dealing with PN, shithead - you're dealing with someone who has a factual, evidence-based axe to grind with a bunch of lying and abusive criminal scum masquerading as a legitimate government agency.
They're fucking terrorists themselves, and have done us more harm in the past fifty years than any external threat could have even dreamed of, not to mention lacking any credibility whatsoever after initially denying, and then being caught out on so much of this crap in the past.
And let's just leave out for the moment the cocaine, or Gary Webb committing suicide by shooting himself in the head, twice, with different calibers...
Or Bill Colby's boating accident, or any other flimflam faery tale you care to name under the auspice of their watchful eyes.
And let's just leave it at the fact that, given the incredible amount of crap they've pulled, lies they've told, and terrorism they themselves have committed against us...
I find their credibility wanting when they go screaming chicken little about some pissant dictator they propped up in the first place and the ruling cabal that just got into power had been gunning for since at least January 1998.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm
So go on and stick your fingers in your ears and keep on chug-a-luggin that koolaid, as I recall, that went about as well for Jones and company as it's gonna go for you.
Were it not for the fact that shitheels like you are tying that anchor chain around *MY* ankles too, I wouldn't even give a fuck...
As it is, seeing you sink first is prettymuch the only
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Erm.... in a less emotional tone...
Finn, I work for politicians (indirectly), and I've been alive prolly longer than you. Long enough to personally remember Chile, Vietnam, Iran-Contra, Panama, Grenada, the first Gulf War etc etc.
I've learned that most politicians lie. I've seen it at work, and on the national (and international) stage. And the higher up they are, the bigger the whoppers. They lie about IMPORTANT things: our wars, our budget, our trade agreements...
And WHY do they lie? If what they want to do is really in our best interests, they wouldn't have to. No. They lie because they want you to agree to something that you wouldn't IF YOU KNEW THE TRUTH. It's far too well documented for you to continue in the naive belief that politicans are daddy figures just looking out for your best interests if you want to maintain any sort of credibility as an objective observer.
If you can incorporate that fact into your mindset, you'll be a lot farther ahead.
---------------------------------
Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal
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Not much emotion to it, although I am admittedly bitter about it.
That's just me schoolin' a fool, which is usually best done by seeing how far one can jam a cochran jump boot up their arse before it finally reaches and dislodges their head from that orifice.
Of course, this one seems to require more extreme measures for extraction, perhaps an inverted oil derrick working in concert with the jaws of life ?
I think we need to consult with a rectocranial inversion specialist, as well, but they're all in DC running for office it seems.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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