First California gay couples wed

POSTED BY: Geezer
UPDATED: Saturday, January 11, 2025 17:44
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SIGMANUNKI

Tuesday, June 17, 2008 11:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Amen !

From what I understand there is one invariant part to marriage which is the civil contract part. The religious portion is separate. Ministers, priests, and sea captains get the legal authority to make their ceremonies have the same legal standing as those of a judge. (By the power vested in me (by the state ...))

Not where I'm from. Ministers, etc need to go through some class(es), etc provided by the state and pass before they have the legal authority to marry people. It makes sense because there are legal requirements that are needed in every ceremony. It's been a while so I can't remember all of them but there are three. One being that the person marrying the couple needs to ask, "If there is any reason why these two shouldn't be wed...". That has to be there since a person can't be married to multiple people, etc. And it needs to be explicitly stated that everyone present knows of no reason why it can't be done. It's the ~equivalent of the "The above is true..." statement on signed contracts.

One of the Marriage Commissioners we went to told us that he actually had performed several ceremonies with Priests as they didn't have permission from the state to marry people. The Priest would do his religious thing, and then the Marriage Commissioner would do his to make it legal.

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

KWICKO

Tuesday, June 17, 2008 11:10 PM

Yup, and the REASON it needs to be called a marriage instead of something else is this:

One day, there's going to be a rich gay couple, and one of them is going to die, and in their will leave everything to his or her "spouse" - and them someone in the family is going to come forward and challenge the will, saying that the law only allows the estate to pass to the person's lawfully married spouse, and to prove that they'd need a MARRIAGE license, not a "civil union" license.

So you can say that they have the same rights, but sooner or later, it's going to come out that they DON'T have the same rights unless their unions are called by the same name.

If it's not a will, it will be a living will, a DNR, health benefits, or what have you. Anywhere a lawyer thinks they can make good case law, or another lawyer thinks they can save their client a buck or two, you'll have legal challenges to anything that isn't specifically called (and protected exactly the same as) a marriage.

It neither blackens my eye nor breaks my leg to have any two consenting adults enter into a marriage to each other. If two people can find one another and commit to a life of loving and respecting each other, who am I to say their love and commitment aren't as legitimate as mine?

To say that such marriages are destroying the institution of marriage is utter poppycock; conventional marriages have made quite a hash of the institution already! In the United States (that "Christian nation" we always hear about), fully FIFTY-ONE PERCENT of marriages end in divorce. In other words, the MAJORITY of such holy and consecrated unions are utter failures. Seems like religion has a really shitty track record of saying who should or shouldn't marry...

And why is it that many of those on the far right are on their second, third, or fourth wives? Don't they believe in the sanctity of marriage?

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

KWICKO

Tuesday, June 17, 2008 11:16 PM

Quote:
Not at all, my good Sir Kwick-O - according to my excitingly judgemental friends on the Religious Right, you and your good lady wife will merely burn in hell for all eternity, or happily ever after, whichever comes first.

This is my tongue, and this is my cheek...please note their proximity.

Wash: Tongue noted, cheek ditto. :)

Threatening atheists with hellfire, brimstone, and damnation is an awful lot like telling us that when we die, we're going to Easter Bunny Land, or Santa Claus-ville. It just doesn't compute.

Thanks for having a sense of humor about it all; it cheered ME up, at least. :)

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

SIGNYM

Wednesday, June 18, 2008 12:06 AM

Finally!

At last they can care for ezch other and entrust their belongings, health, etc with each other.

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

WULFENSTAR

Wednesday, June 18, 2008 1:18 AM

Oh for fraks sake.....

I don't care that they lick carpet, or slip one in the back...

Marriage is a gorram religious institution. Period. Its not some social movement, its not some right for minorities...its a a religious belief.

Im not trying to shove it down anyones throat. YOU are trying to shove the idea that its NOT a religious institution down MY throat (and yes... I get the irony of what Im saying..)

No, if you are joined by a judge, it is NOT marriage...its a civil union.

Yes, I believe being gay is a lifestyle choice. I DON'T believe you are born gay. I think its a choice.

No, being gay is not like being born black, mexican, or whatever. Its a choice.

No, you should not get special treatment in this country because you are "different". God, I am so sick of every little pissant coming out of the woodwork claiming some "special" status.

"I deserve special treatment because X.Y.Z.." Frak off and man up. This country was not forged by little whiney bitches like you. Nor was it fought for so that little puss's could piss and moan about every little thing.

For fraks sake, stop making this country weaker by capitulating to every little minority that wants to whine about being under-represented.

SIGMANUNKI

Wednesday, June 18, 2008 1:48 AM

Requiring EQUALITY is NOT demanding "special status".

And the only thing that I'm requiring of you is to acknowledge THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. Don't like that, then move to a country that doesn't have it!

Christ do you have a cock-eyed perception of reality.

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

WASHNWEAR

Wednesday, June 18, 2008 1:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Yup, and the REASON it needs to be called a marriage instead of something else is this:

One day, there's going to be a rich gay couple, and one of them is going to die, and in their will leave everything to his or her "spouse" - and them someone in the family is going to come forward and challenge the will, saying that the law only allows the estate to pass to the person's lawfully married spouse, and to prove that they'd need a MARRIAGE license, not a "civil union" license.

So you can say that they have the same rights, but sooner or later, it's going to come out that they DON'T have the same rights unless their unions are called by the same name.

If it's not a will, it will be a living will, a DNR, health benefits, or what have you. Anywhere a lawyer thinks they can make good case law, or another lawyer thinks they can save their client a buck or two, you'll have legal challenges to anything that isn't specifically called (and protected exactly the same as) a marriage.

It neither blackens my eye nor breaks my leg to have any two consenting adults enter into a marriage to each other. If two people can find one another and commit to a life of loving and respecting each other, who am I to say their love and commitment aren't as legitimate as mine?

To say that such marriages are destroying the institution of marriage is utter poppycock; conventional marriages have made quite a hash of the institution already! In the United States (that "Christian nation" we always hear about), fully FIFTY-ONE PERCENT of marriages end in divorce. In other words, the MAJORITY of such holy and consecrated unions are utter failures. Seems like religion has a really shitty track record of saying who should or shouldn't marry...

And why is it that many of those on the far right are on their second, third, or fourth wives? Don't they believe in the sanctity of marriage?

Damn right! Especially that part about the blackened eye and the broken leg - well put. This seems to me a silly and spiteful way of basically giving sh*t to a segment of society and its constituents, like we don't have enough ways of doing that already. And "Bob" knows (if he knows anything), what this country needs is another source of tension and ill will. I can't see any rational reason for it.

It was SO not in the best interests of the common good when we got here!

RUE

Wednesday, June 18, 2008 2:01 AM

"No, if you are joined by a judge, it is NOT marriage...its a civil union."

So, when a couple goes to a JP they don't get a 'marriage license' they get a 'civil union' license ? Puuhhhleeese.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

KWICKO

Wednesday, June 18, 2008 2:10 AM

Quote:
For fraks sake, stop making this country weaker by capitulating to every little minority that wants to whine about being under-represented.

You mean like the Republicans capitulating to the evangelicals? Man, talk about a whiney bunch of little bitches!

Quote:

Damn right! Especially that part about the blackened eye and the broken leg - well put.

Thank you for that, but I'm just the messenger, not the writer. If it was well put, then all credit goes to that great writer Thomas Jefferson, whom I cribbed from and paraphrased.

Quote:
Thomas Jefferson wrote:

But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
- Notes on Virginia, 1782

If you're gonna steal, steal from the best!

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

KWICKO

Wednesday, June 18, 2008 2:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Oh for fraks sake.....

Marriage is a gorram religious institution. Period. Its not some social movement, its not some right for minorities...its a a religious belief.

So you're saying that in countries that don't recognize religion, there's no such thing as marriage?

Quote:

No, if you are joined by a judge, it is NOT marriage...its a civil union.

I assume you've got case law to prove that point? Something maybe a little bit stronger than "because I said so"?

Quote:

Yes, I believe being gay is a lifestyle choice. I DON'T believe you are born gay. I think its a choice.

Ah, of course - you make a CHOICE to be attracted to who you're attracted to. Tell me, is being straight a lifestyle choice? I mean, if you were straight, and someone told you you needed to CHOOSE to be gay, would that make it instantly desirable to you?

Me neither. You are what you are. There's no scenario where I'm going to say, "Gee, I really love my wife, but that guy's butt is just SOOOOO hot I have to dump her for him."

Quote:

No, you should not get special treatment in this country because you are "different". God, I am so sick of every little pissant coming out of the woodwork claiming some "special" status.

Good. No more "special treatment" for ANYBODY in this country. No more handicapped accommodations (Man up and walk it off. The exercise might do your dead legs some good!), no more free donuts for cops, no more "special treatment" for veterans (things like lifetime healthcare, GI Bill, special consideration for civil service jobs, special consideration for college admittance, etc.), no more special treatment for faith-based initiatives, no more special treatment for Big Business, no more special treatment for Big Oil, no special treatment for Big Pharma and Big Medicine, no special treatment in the form of student loans (get a job and pay for your own education, slacker!), no special treatment for farmers (Adios, crop subsidies! Buenos dias, dustbowl!), no more special treatment for investment banks who go belly up and expect a government bail-out, no more special treatment for CEOs (if your workers can live on $5.85 an hour, so can you, Mr. Executive), no more special treatment for Administration criminals (sorry, Mr. Libby; you're going to have to serve the entire sentence...), no more special treatment for churches (hey, if you're going to run it like a business, we're going to tax you like one)... and the list goes on...

Sign me up! I'm sick of all those little puss's whining about being different, too!

[By the way, before I get flamed for that rant, bear in mind that it is SATIRE. I'm simply illuminating some of the "special" people who get special treatment under our current system.]

Quote:
Frak off and man up. This country was not forged by little whiney bitches like you.

Yes, it was formed by little whiney bitches who simply didn't want to pay their taxes to a government that didn't represent their interests in any way, shape, or form. It sounds so much more manly when you put it that way...

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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