Ariel...

POSTED BY: freelancertex
UPDATED: Monday, January 7, 2008 15:01
VIEWED: 11057
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FREELANCERTEX

Friday, October 26, 2007 11:53 PM

SPEAKING of Jubal Early, you just reminded me. When she was talking to everyone on the ship, and she was talking to Mal, and he made a face, nad she said "don't make faces." Yes, I knwo she was using the comm system, but there's no video feed on the comm, only audio. same when she told Zoe "no touching guns!!"

Traveler, pleas explain more about the Mal/Saffron thing?? And btw, out of curiosity, where'd you get your sn from?

__________________________
Have you ever wondered why in a dream you can touch a falling sky?
Or fly to the heavens that watch over you?

"I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar."

A man is least himself when he speaks in his own person. Give him a mask and he will show you his true self.

You can't take the sky from me...

TRAVELER

Saturday, October 27, 2007 12:12 AM

I was just making a theory that Mal got advance knowledge from River that good old Mrs. Reynolds was was going to dump Mal in the desert. It was not her original plan. She had already pulled a gun on Mal when they were still in her first husband's house. But River seems to know the future. She seems to see ahead at times. So Mal sits next to Saffron and lets her steal his gun. All the while Mal knows Inara is waiting at the trash container. Notice that Inara waits till Saffron has dug into trash and gotten filthy before showing herself. They really wanted Mrs. Reynolds to know they had her all figured out.

By my SN do you mean the picture of Princess Aura.
Tony Labue's Flash Gordon site has an excellent collection of stills of Princess Aura. Sometimes they even have a forum. The forum seems to go down about once a year due to spam. But the rest of the sight is available and gives an excellent account of the three serials Buster Crabbe made as Flash Gordon.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

NBZ

Saturday, October 27, 2007 12:58 AM

Just addressing a few points in a few different posts.

I am not denying that River can read thoughts. (not brains/minds, but thoughts.)

Jubal Early: She was not always in his mind. She was in his ship. Where he had a picture of a dog and a few other things. See him mentioning his mother. Then correcting herself. River(sees the picture of the old woman): "Your mother does." Jubal (thinks) "she is dead." River: "Oh, Did."

Same with Mal - the making faces bit does not support that she reads minds like a book. And Zoe "I'll just get my gun" River: "No touching guns!".

Reading thoughts, not minds. (This brings another question to the fore - is she conditioned to follow orders? seems likely to me.)

In the BDM - the subliminal message seemed to have sent a lot of information. Probably more than necessary. If you look at the subliminal shots, there is even one of the operative. I doubt she had met him before. (ofcourse there is also artistic licence here. The subliminal message we saw could just be a jumble of nothing. but it did also show some old people she talked about later...)

subconscious thinking or conscious she can pick up on. Maybe one of those that saw her had the thought that she could be used to clean up their mess?

I do not think River helped out on the lassiter job. For one she is not shown much in that episode, secondly, I doubt Joss would turn down a chance for exposition of Rivers' abilities. Besides even Saffron would have been improvising - waiting to get her upper hand. Which she almost got infront of Haymer, but Mal pulled out his own hidden pistol. In the original script of Serenity, River was supposed to pull Mal's gun on him. Even though that was changed, I would put this "carelessness" as one of his characteristics.

Ariel - She could sense what the patient was feeling. She could also sense what the doctor was thinking. Since she is around a doctor most o0f the time, she would pick up some info. oh, and she is also a genius to boot.

and Jayne being afraid - not hard to discern even for a non-psychic! he was uncomfortable around them two in that very scene, jumpy and rounding on them in response. and she is a reader. Not hard to read the fear that others know what he did. A fear he even showed to mal - kill him, but don;t tell others what he did.

FREELANCERTEX

Saturday, October 27, 2007 4:01 AM

Traveler: I thought Mal had Inara there as backup, cuz when she goes to pick him up at the end they discuss that...iunno.
And by your sn I mean your screen name ;-) sry. AIM abbreviations sometimes dominate my forum posts. I try to keep it to a minimum.

NBZ: yeah, but she said "he's afraid we'll know" and she told her brother about what REALLY happened on Ariel, that's why Simon had that little conversation on the doctor's table with Jayne later on.

__________________________
Have you ever wondered why in a dream you can touch a falling sky?
Or fly to the heavens that watch over you?

"I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar."

A man is least himself when he speaks in his own person. Give him a mask and he will show you his true self.

You can't take the sky from me...

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Saturday, October 27, 2007 9:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by freelancertex:

NBZ: I didn't say she was sifting through thoughts in people's minds, but if you think about it she can and does actively read people's minds. later on in 'Trash' when she looks after Jayne and says he's afraid, Jayne never said he was afraid. Nor did anyone but Mal (who never told any of the other crew) know about Jayne betraying the Tams on Ariel.

prezactly what I was trying to say, xie-xie :) Sometimes I can't find the right words, you did.

Error error.
River knows Jayne betrayed them from the moment she wakes from corpsified and says "piece of copper for your...." when she already read his thought without providing the penny, and the entire episode (in hospital) he's on edge for betraying them and she keeps saying she doesn't want to go back to them (hands of blue) but Simon keeps telling her Jayne is helping them, which she knows is wrong.
She repeatedly mentions this betrayal of Jayne, although not clearly for others to catch on to until Simon finally listens when she says Jayne is afraid, of them, for what they (she) knows.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Saturday, October 27, 2007 1:28 PM

Also, the patient has no knowledge of being killed. She's not getting the info from him. Either she's getting it from the killing doc, or one of the nurses who knows but will not stop it, or we would need to acknowledge River is precognitive, seeing into the future.

NBZ

Saturday, October 27, 2007 10:47 PM

The patient does not know what the doctor is doing. However he probably can feel what is happening. faint, nauseous feeling pain around the heart etc etc.

I cannot accept precognition. Not until Joss himself declares it so. But his statement about the furthest he was willing to go into fantasy was a psychic would IMO contradict that.

The most I will accept is that she is good at putting 1 and 1 together to get (very close) to a correct answer. and she feels everything, so she does not ignore any data points (while she possibly may consider too many... and she is crazy...)

However some people do class precognition as psychic as well... some people not me.

As you said she knew about Jayne because she could read his thoughts.

PS If it is assumed she has precognitive abilities, her mind reading comes into doubt. She knows Jayne betrayed them not because she read his mind, but because she knew he would admit to it later on... I prefer to stick to thought reading, and only thought reading. with a strong mind, good bodily coordination.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Sunday, October 28, 2007 3:52 AM

I did not know Joss considered psychic to be fantasy. He writes it well for not understanding it.
I also had not considered precogition would be seen as something other than a facet of psychic. Perhaps I onetime thought that, can't remember, but doesn't fit with my current understanding.
How would you categorize precognition? As being completely separate from psychic? do you consider them both ESP? do you consider deja vu to be precognitive? or ESP? Do you consider precognition to be fantasy? Or only relegated to the likes of Nostradomas?
Did Jayne actually admit it to River or Simon? I only recall him admitting to Mal.

I haven't quite figured out why she cuts Jayne - just because he was rude to Simon? Before or after the extra large gob on the wetstone (or is it whetstone?)

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Sunday, October 28, 2007 4:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by freelancertex:
Traveler: I thought Mal had Inara there as backup, cuz when she goes to pick him up at the end they discuss that...iunno.

I thought what Mal was doing was keeping her away from the trash site so Inara had time to find the Lassiter well before Yosaff got there - not like they knew exactly how long it would take to find it, so Mal needed to delay her for as long as possible.

NBZ

Sunday, October 28, 2007 5:05 AM

scifi and fantasy are interchangeable there.

He said psychic was as far as he was willing to go.

It was only later when I realised that seeing the future can also be classed as psychic.

I normally class precognition, deja vu etc all under the time travel banner. Is that scifi or fantasy? a bit of both. More fantasy IMO. Besides noone has ever got time travel right. in any form. I see it mostly used as a cop out (even worse, sometimes it is a reset switch!). But then again reincarnating dead characters could be seen as the same... so personally I dislike most things that deal with time travel. too many pitfalls that people don't even try to avoid. too much arbitrary "logic" to get around thinking.

Besides this 'verse does not even have FTL travel! something that is in most fantasy essential for time travel.

River knowing about Jayne - She read his or Mal's or that cop geezers thoughts.

She cuts Jayne because he was wearing a Blue Sun T shirt. and he spits on the whetstone. and insults Simon. and she is crazy. She also thinks he looks better in red. Could be either or all.

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